Military 2. What exactly is going on?

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Vivi
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Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Vivi » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:45 am

I started paying attention to Spyderco around 2001-2003, and shortly after I started reading the forum I recall Military 2 rumors and discussions.

In 2005 there was a patent drawing showing a stop lock Military.

During 2005-2011 Sal would sometimes post about the stop lock Military. He would say its being designed and that they plan to sell it alongside the Military 1.

The stop lock is no longer a patent drawing. It is a lock used in production knives that are offered for sale.

So what's the hold up? I figured they were working out kinks with the new lock, but the new lock seems to be working just fine if its on production releases in 2019.

EDIT: Seems a lot of folks are confused. Here's some additional info:

stop lock Military patent page from 2005 - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6918184.pdf

2011 post from Sal Glesser stating the Military 2 is being / has been designed, that it will use the stop lock, and the Military 1 should stay in production alongside it - viewtopic.php?p=647306#p647306

I stress that I am not asking about a new model. I am not asking for a new Military design, and I am not proposing a lock to use. I am not asking for the Military as it stands to be discontinued. I am asking for an update regarding this Military 2 model that has been on the design board since as early as 2005 possibly, that already uses the stop lock.
Last edited by Vivi on Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Evil D
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:10 am

The holdup is the unstoppable success of the Military 1.
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Vivi
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Vivi » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:42 am

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:10 am
The holdup is the unstoppable success of the Military 1.
I think the Military is one of the best folders, period. But a four way clip and a lock with a closing bias could push it from "one of the best" to "the best."

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Outlaw Pete
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Outlaw Pete » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:47 am

It has gradually been improved over the past 23 years. I can think of at least four main generations with some smaller tweaks added in between.

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Wartstein
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:59 am

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:10 am
The holdup is the unstoppable success of the Military 1.

I am neither really a Millie- (great ergos, but a bit large when closed, plus very thin tip), nor a linerlock guy.

Still I think a Military 2 with different (and if it's a power lock for me better) lock should not actually REPLACE the iconic Military (1). It should rather be, like in the Sage line, another option.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:16 am

It might depend on the success of the Native Chief
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:21 am

Evil D wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:10 am
The holdup is the unstoppable success of the Military 1.
I most definitely think there is truth in what you just said. Other than the locking system there really isn't anything I would change. And I can actually live well with the current locking system that is on the C-36 Military. The C-36 Military model might just be an excellent example of "If It Isn't Broke Then Let's Not Try To Fix It". Oh don't get me wrong because I'm always up for improving anything.
Also I'm wondering if they would keep the original C-36 Military model as well as to also have a Military 2 in the line up as a deluxe version of this great folder.
I've been EDCing one of my Military models for over 3 years now. Other than the C-60 Ayoob there is not a model that I would prefer to use as my main EDC over the C-36 Military. Twenty years plus of solid success says something now doesn't it??? :cool: Not to mention that Spyderco has maybe only one other model with the great selection of blade steels.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:28 am

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:16 am
It might depend on the success of the Native Chief
Maybe... but imho the Chief is closer to the Endura than to the Millie. At least in dimensions.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:30 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:28 am
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:16 am
It might depend on the success of the Native Chief
Maybe... but imho the Chief is closer to the Endura than to the Millie. At least in dimensions.
But the native Chief and military share the same production facility
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:34 am

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:30 am
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:28 am
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:16 am
It might depend on the success of the Native Chief
Maybe... but imho the Chief is closer to the Endura than to the Millie. At least in dimensions.
But the native Chief and military share the same production facility
That's a good point indeed!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby VashHash » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:43 am

The chief took a quite a few years to come out too. Unfortunately for us spyderco tells us too much. I agree we need a 4 way clip millie. Tip down doesn't do it for me. Can't put my hand in my pocket without scrapping against the jimping every time. I do love my millies but I don't like that. Native chief Is close though so I'm happy that finally made it out.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Pancake » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:49 am

Vivi wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:45 am
I honestly can't tell you the last time I even heard an update. I think it was 9 years ago.
And then BANG! Next reveal will bring us a Military 2 with Stop lock. :D
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390
On belt: Bow River, Waterway

Waiting for Stretched Stretch :D

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:52 am

Pancake wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:49 am
Vivi wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:45 am
I honestly can't tell you the last time I even heard an update. I think it was 9 years ago.
And then BANG! Next reveal will bring us a Military 2 with Stop lock. :D
I am happy already when they just bring the next REVEAL... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Evil D » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:48 am

At this point aside from some special steels I'd like in sprint runs I have enough Militaries to last 2 lifetimes so I'm fine with bringing in the New especially with a new lock to play with. As long as the weight doesn't increase and we don't lose edge length I'm on board.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby FullFlatMind » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:53 am

What about a Para 4? Based on the PM2 but with a 4" blade. The reverse idea of the Para 3.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:03 am

FullFlatMind wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:53 am
What about a Para 4? Based on the PM2 but with a 4" blade. The reverse idea of the Para 3.
That would be yet another comp.lock knife, right?
Just imho that would not suit the outdoorsy, glove- and cold, wet finger friendly, for big hands also, no risk of dropping it during closing, Military style...
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:37 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:28 am
Spydergirl88 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:16 am
It might depend on the success of the Native Chief
Maybe... but imho the Chief is closer to the Endura than to the Millie. At least in dimensions.
Yeah I tend to agree with you "WArstein". And this is coming from an ardent fan of the Native. But I don't see the CHIEF taking the place of the C-36 Military at all. I am looking forward to the Chief and I hope to test drive one in the near future. But I think "warstein's" evaluation that the Chief is kind of a super improved Endura is a really good comparison IMO.

The ergos on the C-36 Military and Para2 both are so superb that I'm doubtful if the Chief could overtake either one. To me the Chief is probably going to be what it was intended to be>> and that's a long version of the NATIVE>> and again this is coming from a fan of the NATIVE.

Now if they do make that CHIEF model available in Spyderedge it will probably quell all the desires for the Military to be reintroduced in SE. Actually I would love to do a serious one week test of the CHIEF in SE. If they're going to have the NATIVE still available in SE it just makes perfect sense to have the Chief to available in SE as well>> if they do that I could become a big fan of that model really fast :)
Last edited by JD Spydo on Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FullFlatMind
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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby FullFlatMind » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:43 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:03 am
FullFlatMind wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:53 am
What about a Para 4? Based on the PM2 but with a 4" blade. The reverse idea of the Para 3.
That would be yet another comp.lock knife, right?
Just imho that would not suit the outdoorsy, glove- and cold, wet finger friendly, for big hands also, no risk of dropping it during closing, Military style...
I agree with you on that. I was just following the logic of the PM2 to Para 3. Spyderco makes so many different knives and variations so a 4" with a comp lock - it wouldn't surprise me really.

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:58 am

FullFlatMind wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:43 am
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:03 am
FullFlatMind wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:53 am
What about a Para 4? Based on the PM2 but with a 4" blade. The reverse idea of the Para 3.
That would be yet another comp.lock knife, right?
Just imho that would not suit the outdoorsy, glove- and cold, wet finger friendly, for big hands also, no risk of dropping it during closing, Military style...
I agree with you on that. I was just following the logic of the PM2 to Para 3. Spyderco makes so many different knives and variations so a 4" with a comp lock - it wouldn't surprise me really.

... And many would like to see that, I am sure.

But when I understand the name of the model literally and link it a bit to a real "military" scenario: I would not want to rely on a compression lock in a muddy, cold, snow, life or death, thick gloves, fast deployment in every circumstances, never letting the knife drop - scenario.
The comp. lock is an ingenios design, don´t get me wrong all of you who love it, but it has it´s limits when it comes to real use in some scenarios.

Though I´d prefer some kind of backlock a lot over the current linerlock of the Millie, I think no one can deny that a liner lock works great with gloves or cold fingers (a backlock does too, a comp. lock not so much), so for the current Millie it is really not the worst choice
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?

Postby FullFlatMind » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:04 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:58 am
FullFlatMind wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:43 am
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:03 am
FullFlatMind wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:53 am
What about a Para 4? Based on the PM2 but with a 4" blade. The reverse idea of the Para 3.
That would be yet another comp.lock knife, right?
Just imho that would not suit the outdoorsy, glove- and cold, wet finger friendly, for big hands also, no risk of dropping it during closing, Military style...
I agree with you on that. I was just following the logic of the PM2 to Para 3. Spyderco makes so many different knives and variations so a 4" with a comp lock - it wouldn't surprise me really.

... And many would like to see that, I am sure.

But when I understand the name of the model literally and link it a bit to a real "military" scenario: I would not want to rely on a compression lock in a muddy, cold, snow, life or death, thick gloves, fast deployment in every circumstances, never letting the knife drop - scenario.
The comp. lock is an ingenios design, don´t get me wrong all of you who love it, but it has it´s limits when it comes to real use in some scenarios.

Though I´d prefer some kind of backlock a lot over the current linerlock of the Millie, I think no one can deny that a liner lock works great with gloves or cold fingers (a backlock does too, a comp. lock not so much), so for the current Millie it is really not the worst choice
The popularity of the comp lock and all the models that now have it is why I can see some type of 4" model (has that ever happened?). I think the liner lock is on the Military works just fine and is good for the intended purpose. A back lock would work great too. It really just needs a 4-position adjustable clip for tip up carry, IMO. Some other steel choices wouldn't hurt either.


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