The PERFECT Double Bladed Folder?

[JD Spydo]

Benchmade has a model called the 365 Outlast. This is a two-bladed knife with a seat belt cutter. One blade is a drop point in S30V, while the other has a blunted tip for prying, a serrated edge, and is made of 3V. I'm not saying that Spyderco should copy this, but I do find it interesting that Benchmade went with two very different blades (steel, shape, and most likely heat treat). The greater the differentiation between the two blades, the more useful, I think, the knife would be.

Yesterday while I was at work I got some time to do a little research on that Benchmade model 365 Outlast. I'm impressed but on the other hand I'm kind of embarrassed to say that until you brought it up I was unaware of it's existence. I'm darn tempted to snag one of those. And I realize that's blasphemy to say such a thing here at Spyderville :eek: :o >> But if we can't start a fire in the minds of the Great Spyder Factory folks to do something similar I might just get one anyway.

I am a bit confused as to their blade steel selection however. I would have done that in reverse>> I would have done the plain edge blade in 3V and the serrated blade in S30V. But that's just my preference because the one blade I got to test drive in 3V in PE was very impressive>> I would take a 3V blade in PE over S30V any day of the week>> but again that's just my own preference.

But that model 365 Outlast could be the standard of the industry as nice as that folder looks. Also that serration pattern looks interesting as well. I would love to try that SE blade out on a tough job. But if anyone could beat that design it would be the Great Spyder Factory for sure.

[p_atrick]

I'm impressed but on the other hand I'm kind of embarrassed to say that until you brought it up I was unaware of it's existence.

I think this is a newly released knife, so I'm not surprised that it isn't as widely known as some of their other models. Also, given its unique design, I don't know how much air time it will get from the big name YT channels (how many those channels review the new Triage as compared to the Freek).

I am a bit confused as to their blade steel selection however. I would have done that in reverse...

I like the configuration as is. First, 3V is a tougher steel. With the blunt tip, you are giving people an excuse to do the "dumb non-knife" stuff people like to do with knives. Deadbox Hero has a great example of this using the Bailout. He straight up abused that knife. Benchmade also has a really soft heat treat on that blade. There's a thread on Blade Forums stating that Benchmade literature says the HT is 55 to 58. I've seen 56 thrown around a lot. To me, the prying blade with serrations is better suited to a tough steel with a heat treat that maximizes toughness over wear resistance.

I realize that knives are mostly about personal preference. Sometimes it just doesn't matter what the numbers say, we like what we like.

[JD Spydo]

I'm impressed but on the other hand I'm kind of embarrassed to say that until you brought it up I was unaware of it's existence.

I think this is a newly released knife, so I'm not surprised that it isn't as widely known as some of their other models. Also, given its unique design, I don't know how much air time it will get from the big name YT channels (how many those channels review the new Triage as compared to the Freek).

I am a bit confused as to their blade steel selection however. I would have done that in reverse...

I like the configuration as is. First, 3V is a tougher steel. With the blunt tip, you are giving people an excuse to do the "dumb non-knife" stuff people like to do with knives. Deadbox Hero has a great example of this using the Bailout. He straight up abused that knife. Benchmade also has a really soft heat treat on that blade. There's a thread on Blade Forums stating that Benchmade literature says the HT is 55 to 58. I've seen 56 thrown around a lot. To me, the prying blade with serrations is better suited to a tough steel with a heat treat that maximizes toughness over wear resistance.

I realize that knives are mostly about personal preference. Sometimes it just doesn't matter what the numbers say, we like what we like.

Interesting feedback Patrick :) Now you've got my curiosity going>> because now that you mentioned the toughness aspect/property of S3V I'm now wondering how it would stack up against 440V ( S60V) for serrated edge performance. I had always had kind of a middle grade for 440V in PE but in SE I give it an A+. So I'm now wondering if 3V isn't in the same league as 440V concerning toughness properties?

Yeah the BM model 365 Outlast must be a relatively new model because that was the first I had heard of it. I just wish I could remember than one double bladed model that Benchmade had back around 2009-2010 era. It was released about the same time that really popular RUKUS model of their's hit the market. Thanks for a most interesting feedback :)

[p_atrick]

Interesting feedback Patrick :) Now you've got my curiosity going>> because now that you mentioned the toughness aspect/property of S3V I'm now wondering how it would stack up against 440V ( S60V) for serrated edge performance. I had always had kind of a middle grade for 440V in PE but in SE I give it an A+. So I'm now wondering if 3V isn't in the same league as 440V concerning toughness properties?

I'm the wrong person to ask about this. I've gleaned a lot of info from watching/reading what people like Larrin and Deadbox Hero have to say. The best I could do is parrot some of the graphs that Larrin has on his site. Shawn (DBH) had some interesting things to say about S60V in a recent post. He likens it to an "American Elmax". It sounds like a modern rendition of S60V is much better than how it was originally handled.

Larrin has some good articles on 3V. This one talks about this history of 3V and other tough steels. Here is a link to all of the images Google found relating to 3V on Knife Steel Nerds. I haven't seen much about S60V, so you might have some trouble finding a direct comparison between 3V and S60V. In my very uneducated opinion, S60V can't touch 3V in terms of toughness based solely on the carbide volume (low in 3V and high in S60V). Again, I'm no expert in this.

Hopefully, some more knowledgeable people will weigh in on the matter.

Edited for clarity

[p_atrick]

Double post, sorry

[Pelagic]

The issue with the tusk is that both the blade and marlin spike are too small for the typical ropes used on dredges, shipyards, or any large boat.

[JD Spydo]

The issue with the tusk is that both the blade and marlin spike are too small for the typical ropes used on dredges, shipyards, or any large boat.

Yeah I kind of noticed that myself. Maybe a thread calling for a bigger version of the TUSK with two blades and a MarlinSpike might be the ticket. I can't tell you over the years how many I've talked to on this forum and over at Bladeforums that use their Spyderco DYAD models for use on fishing boats and other marine applications>> so with that being said you just know that people that make their living in fishing and several other marine professions like the concept of double bladed knives ( especially with two edge types PE & SE). Yeah I know exactly what you're talking about. I don't live very far from the Missouri River and I've been around a lot of those commercial river barges and their tackle and hardware is big for sure. It's also amazing how many US Coast Guard ships we have go up and down the Missouri River as well. There is a lot of activity that takes place on major US rivers>> not to mention the eastcoast, westcoast and Gulf areas.

If Spyderco would play their cards right they could end up with a big chunk of that overall marine market.

[Ez556]

I think the perfect double bladed folder is one where the two blades open from the same end, not opposite ends. That immediately solves a big part of the ergonomics issue. The next issue with Spyderco specifically in that case would be the opening hole, but if the blades were somewhat ‘nested’ a-la Nilakka, Sliverax, Efficient, Brouwer etc. much of that would also be alleviated. The last and possibly biggest problem with blades being side by side however is how to lock them. Not going to name manufacturers but the knife I think best executes a side by side double blade locks both blades with the same lock, as far as I can deduce at least. The best way to do this in my mind would be a Ball Bearing Lock with a double ball cage, with each blade utilizing its own ball. The same cage can then be pulled back to release each individual blade, and the user experience would be largely the same for each blade. The balls would even be able to ‘float’ independently a small amount up and down to facilitate solid lock up and retention for each individual blade. The primary blade would be accessed with the thumb and the secondary blade, preferably a serrated rescue type blade would be accessed with either a flick of the index/middle finger or just their other hand for those less coordinated.

[Ez556]

Here is a quickly and poorly drawn example of what I’m describing next to a current Manix cage. It could be made with either one or two springs depending on what works best in development.
The cage is really the biggest difference between this and a normal BBL, the rest of the mechanism would be largely the same as a normal BBL just x2 side by side, maybe with some tweaking with ramp angles so one blade is fully retained while the other is fully locked in the same distance traveled of the cage. To me, this lock design with blades similar to what’s on the Brouwer or Efficient side by side would be the perfect double bladed folder.

[TomAiello]

I would not mind seeing something like the dragonfly FRN with an extra blade. The light weight would definitely be compelling.

This.

With a ZDP PE blade and an H-1 Hawkbill serrated blade.

[Sumdumguy]

The answer is a double Ikuchi. Each blade on opposite ends of the knife, both flipper wheel activated. Both blades would be flush in the handle, compression lock because it's better, flow through design.

Bob's your Uncle!

[JD Spydo]

I would not mind seeing something like the dragonfly FRN with an extra blade. The light weight would definitely be compelling.

This.

With a ZDP PE blade and an H-1 Hawkbill serrated blade.

No that wouldn't be my idea of a premium double-bladed folder. First off I would only want something in the size range of the original C-44 Dyad ( the big one). Now if they ever did a double-bladed folder with Hawkbill blades I would like that but I would strictly want it to be a Hawkbill tool exclusively.
I used to love ZDP-189 and still have a couple of models but over the years I've found at least 3 premium blade steels I like better. ZDP-189 doesn't have any resistance to food acids and is one stainless that has little corrosion resistance. I would go with M-4 or XHP for that type of knife over ZDP.

[SF Native]

How about this...
A ti frame lock is on the right scale. A compression lock is on the g10 left scale. Don’t see why you couldn’t have one lock for each blade. The compression lock has the stop pin which would have to be beefed up for a longer distance. Put some over travel stops on the lock bars. I think that could work.

[JD Spydo]

How about this...
A ti frame lock is on the right scale. A compression lock is on the g10 left scale. Don’t see why you couldn’t have one lock for each blade. The compression lock has the stop pin which would have to be beefed up for a longer distance. Put some over travel stops on the lock bars. I think that could work.

That's an interesting idea SF. I've even fantasized that a ball bearing lock similar to the one on the Dodo model would be cool for a double bladed folder. As complex as the C-44 Dyad design is they are probably limited as to the type of locking system they can use on that type of knife.

But again re-thinking about that TUSK model being a great knife to re-design as a double bladed knife just sounds better to me the more I think about it. But also being that the C-44 Dyad has been one of my sentimental favorites for years now I'm not going to give up on a new type of big Dyad model.

[Pelagic]

I think maintaining good ergonomics would be a difficult achievement if one of the blades was a hawkbill. When using the other blade, it seems it would be difficult to get around the hump of the hawbill's spine.

[JD Spydo]

I think maintaining good ergonomics would be a difficult achievement if one of the blades was a hawkbill. When using the other blade, it seems it would be difficult to get around the hump of the hawbill's spine.

Yeah it's like I said earlier>> if you want a two bladed folder with a Hawkbill blade then make it a Hawkbill Dyad with two Hawkbill blades. That's really the only way you could do justice to it. The idea of the original Dyad doesn't need improvement with the two blades that they already have.

the one big improvement I would really want to see the most would be some type of good lanyard attachment.