Lamentations of the Discontinued
- SpyderEdgeForever
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Lamentations of the Discontinued
I won't mention any particular knife model but this post is for those who lament about discontinued knives. Oh how painful it is to see a great, useful, practical, and cosmetically-pleasing knife model go the way of the dinosaurs. Tell me again, what are some of the core reasons why this happens? Lack of sales is the bottom line, even if a particular design clearly has all the specs of being a "universally-useful tool"?
And here is an interesting thought for you: Are there any specifics when it comes to particulars in a design that one can examine to predict if a given model will get discontinued, or, continue to be produced, or, there are no such design features that can guarantee it to remain in production? And are there any specific design features that one can use to predict if a design will flop, ahead of time, or not?
Here are some reasons a person on the website "Quora" gave, when asked why products get discontinued. Do any of these apply to past Spyderco designs that have been discontinued?
" Drop in demand. It could be because of new models introduced to the market, or just changing technology or tastes. Not too many Sony Beta machines, or even VHS machines are sold anymore. Iphone 4 sales have probably slumped tremendously due to new models being introduced. Lots of items fall into this category. Everyone wants the latest, new and improved model.
Changing tastes, especially fashion or fad items. I haven’t seen a pet rock for sale in any of my local stores for a long, long, time. Many high fashion trendy items fall out of favor quickly.
Broken tooling. Sometimes the tooling, (tooling is the special assembly jigs or molds used to make the component parts) is broken and too costly to repair or replace.
Factories go out of business and no one else wants to assume the manufacturing."
And here is an interesting thought for you: Are there any specifics when it comes to particulars in a design that one can examine to predict if a given model will get discontinued, or, continue to be produced, or, there are no such design features that can guarantee it to remain in production? And are there any specific design features that one can use to predict if a design will flop, ahead of time, or not?
Here are some reasons a person on the website "Quora" gave, when asked why products get discontinued. Do any of these apply to past Spyderco designs that have been discontinued?
" Drop in demand. It could be because of new models introduced to the market, or just changing technology or tastes. Not too many Sony Beta machines, or even VHS machines are sold anymore. Iphone 4 sales have probably slumped tremendously due to new models being introduced. Lots of items fall into this category. Everyone wants the latest, new and improved model.
Changing tastes, especially fashion or fad items. I haven’t seen a pet rock for sale in any of my local stores for a long, long, time. Many high fashion trendy items fall out of favor quickly.
Broken tooling. Sometimes the tooling, (tooling is the special assembly jigs or molds used to make the component parts) is broken and too costly to repair or replace.
Factories go out of business and no one else wants to assume the manufacturing."
- knivesandbooks
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Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
The two things aren't really design specifics as much as production specifics. If they're made in Taiwan and are a collaboration, the clock is ticking. Usually only kept in production 2-3 years, I believe was Deacon's observation.
After that, the more expensive Japanese-made models get discontinued often. It seems clear it is due to sales lacking. I'm referring to $180 knives with VG10 and plain G10. But, some of these models have persisted for quite some time.
The only other thing I've noticed is that tanto blades don't last too long for Spyderco.
After that, the more expensive Japanese-made models get discontinued often. It seems clear it is due to sales lacking. I'm referring to $180 knives with VG10 and plain G10. But, some of these models have persisted for quite some time.
The only other thing I've noticed is that tanto blades don't last too long for Spyderco.
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and on those in the tombs bestowing life!
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
There's only so much production capacity, and it goes where the money goes. I think a lot (as in the vast majority) of models are made with the intent of being temporary models, almost even like a longer sprint run of sorts. Many of the collaboration models are like this, some stick around a long time and others for barely one year.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
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Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
I always thought the back lock Manix would have been more popular. I remember ppl loved it and wanted sprint versions.
- JonLeBlanc
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Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
I'd been looking at the Rookie model and thought "what a cool little knife." It's like a Police Jr! Too bad it's disco'd, maybe time for a sprint run? Solid Superblue...? Lol
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
Redman5006 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:03 amI always thought the back lock Manix would have been more popular. I remember ppl loved it and wanted sprint versions.
I also think sprints are partly to blame for premature discontinues. If sales are the deciding factor for sprints, but the standard version is selling soft because people are holding out hoping for a sprint version, then Spyderco and/or vendors are stuck with the risk of doing an expensive run that may not sell. I also think models like the back lock Manix 2 are a no brainier and would sell out in a day, but I understand their position.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
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Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
This is the biggest reason. I think a lot of new models, especially the collaborations, are made to appease the collector base. In order to keep those buyers around, you constantly have to churn out new models to add to collections so it stays fresh and interesting. Since there's only so much capacity to manufacture knives, models need to be dropped to make room.SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:02 amChanging tastes, especially fashion or fad items. Many high fashion trendy items fall out of favor quickly.
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
Here's a lament. The discontinued discounts are all over the place. The D'allara is going for 140ish now, while the "on sale" price for the Ouroboros and ZDP G10 stretch are pretty much what they were selling for BEFORE they were discontinued. 175 and 203. If they droped the ouro down to 130-140 I might buy one. Supply and demand I guess.
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
- curlyhairedboy
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Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
regarding the ouro, I was able to pick up 2 for 100 each - there's a window shortly after the discontinued announcement where the big retailers often drop prices.ZrowsN1s wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:39 amHere's a lament. The discontinued discounts are all over the place. The D'allara is going for 140ish now, while the "on sale" price for the Ouroboros and ZDP G10 stretch are pretty much what they were selling for BEFORE they were discontinued. 175 and 203. If they droped the ouro down to 130-140 I might buy one. Supply and demand I guess.
In many ways the ouroboros has gone back up in price since folks see it as a gem :)
In the end the VG10 steel couldn't keep up in my rotation, so it moved on.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Damasteel Urban, Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Sage 5 LW, Serrated Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, XHP Shaman, M4/Micarta Shaman, 15v Shaman
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Magnacut Mule
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Ti Native, Calendar Watu, Tanto PM2
Would like to own again: CQI Caribbean Sheepsfoot PE, Watu
Wishlist: Magnacut, Shaman Sprints!
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Magnacut Mule
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Ti Native, Calendar Watu, Tanto PM2
Would like to own again: CQI Caribbean Sheepsfoot PE, Watu
Wishlist: Magnacut, Shaman Sprints!
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
I can think of the TUFF on this one. I missed them initially and now I won't pay the premium that people are asking for them. With all of the clatter about this knife in particular it makes me wonder why it was disco'd?Evil D wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:43 amThere's only so much production capacity, and it goes where the money goes. I think a lot (as in the vast majority) of models are made with the intent of being temporary models, almost even like a longer sprint run of sorts. Many of the collaboration models are like this, some stick around a long time and others for barely one year.
Do right always. It will give you satisfaction in life.
--Wovoka
--Wovoka
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
jdw wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:58 amI can think of the TUFF on this one. I missed them initially and now I won't pay the premium that people are asking for them. With all of the clatter about this knife in particular it makes me wonder why it was disco'd?Evil D wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:43 amThere's only so much production capacity, and it goes where the money goes. I think a lot (as in the vast majority) of models are made with the intent of being temporary models, almost even like a longer sprint run of sorts. Many of the collaboration models are like this, some stick around a long time and others for barely one year.
There's a lot of interest in some models after they're not available anymore. The Captain for example was totally off the radar until it was gone.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
I just started a thread over at BF along these lines. Because with all of the newbies, new collectors and new Spyderco fans that have accrued in the past 5 years I feel like there are at least 8 to 10 models they could bring back to the main line up with super success IMO.
With all the recent high demand for the Dodo model would make me reconsider to put the Dodo back in the main line up if I were the one making decisions. And in PE & SE both I might add. The Dodo in SE was probably the absolute best short bladed, Spyderedged knife they ever made IMO.
Also models like the C-60 Ayoob, JD Smith, big C-54 Calypso, The Spyker ect, ect>> those models are now considered high in demand icons of the old era. But this is coming from a guy who is a huge fan of "Old School Spyders". But do keep in mind that it was the "Old School Spyders" that set the stage for what we enjoy now.
With all the recent high demand for the Dodo model would make me reconsider to put the Dodo back in the main line up if I were the one making decisions. And in PE & SE both I might add. The Dodo in SE was probably the absolute best short bladed, Spyderedged knife they ever made IMO.
Also models like the C-60 Ayoob, JD Smith, big C-54 Calypso, The Spyker ect, ect>> those models are now considered high in demand icons of the old era. But this is coming from a guy who is a huge fan of "Old School Spyders". But do keep in mind that it was the "Old School Spyders" that set the stage for what we enjoy now.
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
It is kind of interesting to me to follow the trends over the years... Seems like a steady increase in people preferring ffg to sabre or hollow grinds in a particular knife model say for instance the Delica or Native. Also the more recent trend of spyderco having more linerless g10 knives on the Golden models. Plus the interest in lightweight models like the Chap LW and Sage 5 LW
Spydergirl88
3 Nats, 1 Chap, 1 Sham, 1 Urb
3 Nats, 1 Chap, 1 Sham, 1 Urb
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
I'm just a bit perplexed as to why a lot of people object to a folder knife maybe weighing two to three more ounces than a liner-less folder. I'm no macho man by any means but I've never had a folder or a fixed blade either one ever burden me down to the point to where it bothers me at all.Spydergirl88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:50 amIt is kind of interesting to me to follow the trends over the years... Seems like a steady increase in people preferring ffg to sabre or hollow grinds in a particular knife model say for instance the Delica or Native. Also the more recent trend of spyderco having more linerless g10 knives on the Golden models. Plus the interest in lightweight models like the Chap LW and Sage 5 LW
When I was carrying my old Chinook III for instance it was about as solid and heavy of a folder I ever carried but the weight of it never bothered me at all. I guess in some instances lightweight models do have some advantages in repetitive working conditions. But for EDC uses or even field dressing a deer the weight just doesn't annoy me at all.
But you are so right Spydergirl because there is a big trend toward lighter weight folders and fixed blades in the overall Spyderco main line up. Actually there are some models I wish were built with more solid bulk. The Spyderhawk for instance to me would be great with a G-10 or Micarta handle>> liner or not I would love it.
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
I think the lightweight trend might have something to do with people not wearing 100 percent cotton jeans as much and are wearing pants/shorts that are lightweight fabrics. So the "heavier" knives are more noticeable in pocket weight-wise
Spydergirl88
3 Nats, 1 Chap, 1 Sham, 1 Urb
3 Nats, 1 Chap, 1 Sham, 1 Urb
Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
That's a good deal!curlyhairedboy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:51 amregarding the ouro, I was able to pick up 2 for 100 each - .....
-Matt a.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135 I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
"Ghost hunters scope the edge." -sal
- SpyderEdgeForever
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Re: Lamentations of the Discontinued
This is an interesting line of reasoning that I have not considered, thank you, Spydergirl. It is true that in the past the general cloth materials used for pants were 100 percent cotton, linen, wool, and canvas denim; most of them being heavy-weight fabrics in comparison to the modern polymer-cotton and totally synthetic fabric blends. Some cultures had silk based pants but those were not as common in the western world.Spydergirl88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:40 amI think the lightweight trend might have something to do with people not wearing 100 percent cotton jeans as much and are wearing pants/shorts that are lightweight fabrics. So the "heavier" knives are more noticeable in pocket weight-wise
A very fascinating correlation.
What do you and others think about this as a compromise knife companies like Spyderco can make for we, their customers?
They would produce a given number of a certain model, and, then they would produce a seperate amount of the same exact knife model, and that amount would be put away in store somewhere, for those specific customers who in the future would desire to purchase the discontinued model. Would this work and make economic sense for them or not?
Here is an example:
Let's imagine that Spyderco makes 50,000 units of Spyderco Native Salts. (This is just a number I'm making up) Then, seperate from those 50,000 they have made for the standard knife consumer market, they also produce another 40 or 50 000 units of the same knife, but, these they put away in some enviromentally-safe storage unit, and these are saved to be sold specifically to those people whom they know are fans of that particular knife, and they do not put those for sale on the general knife market. And then a few years pass, and the Native Salt has been discontinued. But, Spyderco has this extra cache of Native Salts available to sell to those people whom are interested in the discontinued model. Would that work or not?