Choil-less Spyderco Knives

[Wartstein]

Functionally, I regard the notch on the Endura (Pacific Salt)/Delica (Salt)/Endela as a choil. Does no one else?

After all, this notch provides a reliable purchase for greater blade control plus an index for knowing the apex isn’t far away...

Totally. For me the Ricasso of the Endura ist practically as good as a dedicated choil. Not less safe at all and almost as comfortable.
When I choke up on a choil or a Ricasso I always put my thumb to the side ot the blade, rarely on the spine. Plus press back against the front of the handle with my index finger at least as much as against choil or Ricasso. Works perfectly.
So the Endura Ricasso is for one as good as a choil for me, plus has the advantage that my hand is closer to the edge in a regular grip on the handle (so NOT choked up).

But then I also choke up on the actual edge of knives with no problem (and yes, my edges ARE sharp... )
Never hurt myself, as long as you just press against the edge and don't move your finger it works well.

[Wartstein]

I’m definitely not on board with deleting a choil from Manix or Native! The Native is way too small to lose the choil, also the 3 finger grip behind the choil is very uncomfortable and the grip feels very unsecured. For my hands anyway.

But that's exactly the point!! Why does the Native just have an uncomfortable 3 finger grip behind the choil? Exactly BECAUSE of the choil which is located to about 50% on the HANDLE. So the absolute length of the actual handle would offer enough space for a good four finger grip, if shaped differently (choilless). PLUS you'd gain a longer edge also (no choil in the blade either)

[Doc Dan]

I’m definitely not on board with deleting a choil from Manix or Native! The Native is way too small to lose the choil, also the 3 finger grip behind the choil is very uncomfortable and the grip feels very unsecured. For my hands anyway.

But that's exactly the point!! Why does the Native just have an uncomfortable 3 finger grip behind the choil? Exactly BECAUSE of the choil which is located to about 50% on the HANDLE. So the absolute length of the actual handle would offer enough space for a good four finger grip, if shaped differently (choilless). PLUS you'd gain a longer edge also (no choil in the blade either)

The native would be a better knife if it were choilless and they moved the front guard forward so a proper grip could be made on the knife.

[Evil D]

I have left the choil bandwagon. I'd rather have a handle like the Caribbean and a blade ground all the way to the handle. I would absolutely love a Manix 2 without the choil if they moved the grip up to the front of the G10 and left that guard/hook as the front of the grip.

[wrdwrght]

I’m leery of suggesting fixes to what ain’t broke. Want choil-less Spydies? Buy what’s available or suggest new designs? Natives, Manixes and a good many other models are proven successes and need no help.

[Sharp Guy]

Sliverax for me!

[spyderg]

I’m definitely not on board with deleting a choil from Manix or Native! The Native is way too small to lose the choil, also the 3 finger grip behind the choil is very uncomfortable and the grip feels very unsecured. For my hands anyway.

But that's exactly the point!! Why does the Native just have an uncomfortable 3 finger grip behind the choil? Exactly BECAUSE of the choil which is located to about 50% on the HANDLE. So the absolute length of the actual handle would offer enough space for a good four finger grip, if shaped differently (choilless). PLUS you'd gain a longer edge also (no choil in the blade either)

But then it’d no longer be a Native or resemble one. It would be a whole new knife, not a bad thing mind you, just not a Native.

[Maximumsmoochy]

But then it’d no longer be a Native or resemble one. It would be a whole new knife, not a bad thing mind you, just not a Native.

Correct, a major design feature of the Native/Manix is the choil. Suggesting "removal" is a new knife, not a CQI adjustment.

I find finger choils have mixed blessings:
On smaller knives, they allow big comfy grips that otherwise wouldn't be possible with limited handle space (ie: DF2, Lil' Native)

On medium sized knives, the trend towards deeper, more pronounced choils "locks" your hand into a single position and this can be bothersome (ie: Native 5, Stretch 2)

Larger knives probably don't need them (ie: GB2, Caribbean), but so long as the shaping isn't too deep/demanding, I can move my hand into/out of/in between the pre-defined hand-hold positions (ie: Military - I don't usually sit right in the choil, but the curves are gentle enough to comfortably leave my index on the hump just fore of the lock)

In all cases, one loses some edge length, hopefully with some benefit. For my part, I prefer knives without if only to maximize cutting edge, but I appreciate how they can open up design space.

[steelcity16]

I would like to see some lightweight FRN choil-less knives in premium steels and/or Salt form. A Tenacious LW, Carribean LW, or Mantra LW would all be great as premium knives with FRN, premium steel, and deep carry wire clips.

[ladybug93]

i think it makes less sense on a large knife and more sense on a small knife. that said, i like them on mid sized knives that i edc as well so that i can get that same control i have on smaller knives. i also love spyderco’s jimping and enjoy feeling the blade in my grip. it also opens up the knife for more comfortable pinch grips. this is part of why the manix is the perfect knife. it just needs to be made in lc200n.

[Evil D]

i think it makes less sense on a large knife and more sense on a small knife.

Absolutely this. On some small knives the choil is clearly designed as the primary gripping option, and though you can grip behind the choil it just doesn't feel right to me (Native 5/Dragonfly for example). On larger knives where you can get a full grip behind the choil, to me it makes more sense to design the grip and blade in such a way that it puts your index finger close to the edge, then the choil isn't necessary. I can do delicate detailed work with a Caribbean just as easily as I can when choking up on a Military. There is an efficiency in a design like this that I really appreciate.

[SG89]

i think it makes less sense on a large knife and more sense on a small knife. that said, i like them on mid sized knives that i edc as well so that i can get that same control i have on smaller knives. i also love spyderco’s jimping and enjoy feeling the blade in my grip. it also opens up the knife for more comfortable pinch grips.

This. All of this.

[ferider]

Hundred Pacer, Chinook 4, GB2. Yeah, some cool ones.

[vivi]

I've always felt choils were an odd feature on the typical sized Spydercos.

On a tiny design it makes sense. Something like the Urban, Dragonfly or Lil Native wouldn't have a chance of offering me a four finger grip without one due to how short the handle is.

On a medium to large folder, I don't think they make sense until you start approaching 5" blades, and basically no one EDC's 5" blade folders.

The reason why I think this is I can choke up to the very tip of even my Police 4. This grip offers me more control than the normal grip on a tiny knife like the Urban, even utilizing the index choil.



If I need to slice tape on a box, cut out a newspaper article or pick a splinter, the Police works great.

An index choil isn't going to offer me more control than changing my grip. Just like no amount of fiddling with handle shapes is going to make slicing food on a cutting board in sabre grip as ergonomic as a pinch grip.

This ignores the realization that few things an EDC folder will be used for will even require a great deal of precision, and in those rare circumstances a half inch difference in hand placement won't be the end of the world.

There is no reason I should have to sand down the handle on a knife that's wider than my palm just to be able to achieve a normal working grip:



That's a problem. That knife had a design so fixated on employing a choil that I couldn't get a full grip without it, and the Para 1 is nearly 5" closed.

I've since modified my buying habits to exclude any knife that requires a choil to offer me a full grip.

[SteveMidwest]

I buy far more knives than a person really should. So I'm not exactly typical in my thinking, all of the time. Lately, I've been craving a knife/more knife choices, with the ability to be able to place my forefinger, directly under the pivot-pin. It probably comes from getting so many flipper knives, the past two or three years. I think others may be feeling this way too, and it may be at least part of the reason. The Kapara got so much early, and well deserved love. :)

[Halfneck]

I prefer a knife without a choil. I own 3 Spyderco knives with choils - VG-10 Dragonfly, VG-10 Caly 3 and a CTS-XHP Manix 2 LW. I will admit I like the Caly 3 and it feels "right" using the choil. The choil on the Manix 2 LW is just wasted on me. The handle feels great in a choiless grip, and I'd rather have more cutting edge than a choil. If I've got a well designed handle for my hand I don't need a choil to choke up on it.

Smaller knives I can see a choil being used to facilitate a grip on a shorter handle. Larger knives it just seems wasted.

Edit: the above is my personal opinion, nothing against those that like choils.

And for the OP - check out the following for Spydercos w/o choils:

Small - Rhino
Slim - Ikuchi
Stout - Lil'Temp 3

[vivi]

I feel the same way with the Caly 3 and Manix. Couldn't imagine a Caly without one, never use em on any Manix iteration.

[Wartstein]

On medium sized knives, the trend towards deeper, more pronounced choils "locks" your hand into a single position and this can be bothersome (ie: Native 5, Stretch 2)

You must have really big hands! For me the Stretch 2 and Native 5 fall in clearly different categories concerning their choils:

Native 5: I am totally with you. On this knife I (L to XL hands, rather skinny fingers) have to use the choil to get a good four finger grip. The handlepart behind the choil is too short for that. BUT: The whole handle (in its total length) would offer enough space for a good four finger grip if shaped differently (so without a choil). That´s exactly the situation when I do not like a choil in a knife at all. Cause the choil means in this case: grip area on the actual handle too short, PLUS an unnecessaely short edge.

Stretch 2: Different situation: Actual grip area on the handle offers space for a good, actually even very comfortable four finger grip. Plus I can choke up on a very generous choil, which gives me another very good grip. In that case I at least can live with a choil. Though In the Stretch 2 (not Stretch 1) I am not excited how far away from the edge my hand is placed in a regular grip. But it´s ok at least.

(For the sake of completness: Third situation: Chaparral, DFly: The total length of the handle would be too short to offer a good four finger grip anyway, regardless how its shaped. In that case I love a choil or to put it better, the choil is even mandatory to get one good grip. So you get a very compact overall package, but a knife that feels in hand like a larger one. That´s probably the main reason why I prefer the Chap over the Native 5 by a lot).

[Ngati Pom]

Polestar/ Alcyone. Designed to eliminate the need for a choil, if I recall correctly. Often overlooked for more ‘prestigious ‘ models
+1 on the Sliverax.

[BornIn1500]

Polestar/ Alcyone. Designed to eliminate the need for a choil, if I recall correctly.

If a nice mid-sized knife like the Polestar, with no choil, was given the compression lock, I really do feel like that would be the ultimate Spyderco knife.