Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

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Spyderman91
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Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Spyderman91 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:53 pm

Hello Everyone,

What a time to be a knife consumer / user/ enthusiast, never have I've been presented with so many choices and baffled at how many more there still are. With that said I believe a big factor in the knife consumer phenomenon is the power of social media, and the outreach from manufactures, reviewers and enthusiasts through various platforms (youtube, forums, ect). This symmetry has blossomed an obscure collective of individuals both old school die hard users, and intrepid collectors.

Now the main reason I am writing this thread is because I am curious to hear what you guys think. Do users make up the main consumers of folders, fixed blades, ect, or is it the collector driven by exclusives and market scarcity.

My inspiration for writing this post was me missing out on a Strider PT exclusive that dropped earlier this evening. I was able to add the item to my cart the second it appeared, but by the time I finished my shipping / payment information (A minute later) they were all gone. I have always been able to get a hold of a drop if I plan ahead, aside from the Para 3 REC exclusive (lol). So it's interesting to see how much a frenzy gets stirred up over certain models. The picture is a response from Mick Strider regarding some of the dissatisfied comments.

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Spyderman91 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:54 pm

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basedlarrydavid
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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby basedlarrydavid » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:46 pm

Spyderman91 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:53 pm

Do users make up the main consumers of folders, fixed blades, ect, or is it the collector driven by exclusives and market scarcity.
Could be wrong about this, but I would venture to guess that those who would be considered “users” are the main consumers of folders. I assume the knife market is very similar to that of the sneaker/shoe market — you have people who see them as collector’s items and others who wear them to only serve a functional purpose.

Nike and their retailers will advance sleek advertising campaigns to push some limited edition running shoe or a LeBron James branded basketball shoe. For the sake of this parallel, let’s call them sprint runs. Their devoted fanbase and people in that microcosm will instantly purchase every single pair and even sell them on eBay at a profit. Those same people, who spend their free time on forums talking about sneakers, or browsing corners of social media platforms that cater to them, will begin to develop a bias where they are convinced that those limited edition models are the most consumed/popular shoes.

Meanwhile, those 2,000 piece sprint runs are a complete drop in the bucket to Nike’s overall revenue. Sure, they serve to build the brand, and their hardcore fanbase desperately wants a pair, but the company probably sold 100,000 pairs of some generic, plain jane production running shoe that same week to guys who just want something comfortable to wear on their morning jogs.

I would be willing to guess that same principle applies to knives. The few thousand (total guess) of us regularly combing this forum would set reminders in their phones and hide in the bathroom on company time to catch a sprint run drop, however, I’m sure there are many, many more folks who simply want something that’ll cut open their Amazon boxes and whittle a walking stick if need be.

I think Sal more or less confirmed this in a recent thread (IIRC, regarding the Police 4 LW). One of us was talking about how badly we wanted the K390 version to drop first, to which he said that the vast majority of consumers want stainless steel. Us knife and steel nerds may want a carbon steel knife ground to 0.010” BTE with 75 HRC (lol) and marbled carbon fiber scales but most people buying knives wouldn’t.

One more thing to consider — I’d also say that there is probably some significant overlap between knife “users” and “collectors.” I own a S90V Millie that I carry in my back pocket every day. It has been sharpened a thousand times, is covered in snail trails, and has cut down about hundreds of boxes in the last year alone. I also own a CRK Large Sebenza 21 “Night Sky/Big Dipper” Unique Graphic with a Mother of Pearl cabochon and a Chad Nichols Raindrop Damascus, which has never seen my pocket once.

And just as a matter of semantics, I also collect users. Lol.
More K390 and 10V, please.

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby ChrisinHove » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:15 am

Sprints and exclusives are the equivalent of motor manufacturers race teams - great for development of the product and brand, but far too much hassle and cost for most people!

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby ferider » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:00 am

There is absolutely no contradiction between being a user and a collector. Two parts of our brain - you can be both at the same time ... Half of my Spydies are sprints/exclusives, often customized so that they feel "mine" and they get used (except for backups). Which is were the real joy is, a knife feels kind of useless to me when it's stored away.
Last edited by ferider on Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Wartstein » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:19 am

I´ve been liking and carrying knives for quite a long time, but the social media thing is quite new to me tbh. I am active on this forum for less than a year (and it´s the only forum of any kind for me), was lurking maybe half a year before that, and do watch knive vids and read reviews for maybe two years now (in fact, most of my Spydies I bought without knowing almost anything about the brand, or who Sal Glesser is, and so on... ;) In a way that is a good thing, for I can be a 100% sure that I really like the knives and designs, and not a hype or whatever)

I personally am a "user" in the sense, that I don´t want to own knives (except one single backup for my Stretch 1) that don´t get used, and I use all of my Spydies quite frequently.
Still I don´t consider myself a real, heavy knife user, for my day to day life (sadly...) does not contain as many knife tasks as I´d like.

But from what I see and read, I get the feeling, that there are more and more people who maybe have three or four users, but a lot more pure "collectibles", and don´t want to use them at all, let alone that the knives get a used look. I mean, some collections are so large, that it seems to be almost impossible to really use all that knives... (Don´t get me wrong, I have nothing against such an approach, to each their own, it´s just not for me)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 am

Most knives end up in the hands of folks who are not enthusiasts, just like most cars end up in the garages of folks who are not auto enthusiasts. We need to remember that we look at the knife world through a small window.

When looking at premium knives or sprint/limited edition knives you are focusing on a very, very small part of the market.

User vs collector? That is a touchy subject. None of mine are new or sitting in display cases but at this point I have far to many to deny being a collector. Well, unless you want to call me a hoarder. :)

Social media will destroy civilization. Don’t pay too much attention to it. It is a fountain of ill will and misinformation.

Strider is a classy guy. Great response and terrific way to treat potential customers. Sorry you missed your knife but if I got one of them for free I would sell it and buy a different knife.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby carrot » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:55 am

I would have a whole lot less knives if it weren't for the forums. Specifically, Spyderco Forums, because I only visit Bladeforums rarely and I don't participate in USN anymore. I also appreciate that Sal and Kristi engage with us here on the forums, which is a nice personal touch for a company that moves as quickly as Spyderco does.

I also just put in a preorder to a waitlist for another knife company that has a social media presence because, first of all, they got rave reviews, and second, I was impressed with how the owner interacted with people on their Facebook group. These days, I appreciate the full story around a manufacturer and not just the product itself.

PS: I wouldn't feel too bad about missing out on the Strider PT. It's a great knife, but I had one, and after I got my Brouwer with MXG deep carry clip, I sold it. They feel similar, but the Brouwer is more my speed.

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Genotoxic » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:34 am

I have almost 3 stages to my collection...

I have knives that dont get used at all because they're rare or I bought them specifically for looks and the craftsmanship aspect of them.

I have nice knives that I have no problem using but also use in a more controlled environment, and dont lend out... using the knives but preserving them as much as possible

Then I have complete user/workhorse knives where the condition of the knife doesn't matter. I wont do stupid things but if I accidentally round the tip, chip the edge, drop it or anything I wont think twice about it. These are the knives that come to work with me every day and I dont fear lending to people.

My collection is probably 25% collector, 50% User and 25% tools that are there to do a job and looks dont matter

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby DSH007 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:08 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 am

User vs collector? That is a touchy subject. None of mine are new or sitting in display cases but at this point I have far to many to deny being a collector. Well, unless you want to call me a hoarder. :)
Bingo. This describes my feelings exactly. I've never considered myself a "collector" either, but really I can't argue that I've acquired so many knives at this point that I definitely have a "collection." I always buy my knives with every intention of using them as knives and the styles and models that I enjoy are more practical "user" styles, rather than what I would consider fancy "collector" style knives (sorry, no fantasy daggers for me).. Still, it's become a collection. It's a shame, but many of my knives end up going unused for long periods. I've been considering selling off a couple of them lately.. but I also selfishly enjoy keeping them around. It is nice to experiment with different models, steels, sizes, etc. and be able to change up my daily carry frequently. So, I guess I am a collector of users..

I have mixed feelings about the social media piece, in that I can see the good and the bad of it. It's certainly entertaining sometimes, but there is also just so much nonsense associated with it. Fortunately, you are ultimately in control of what you actually see.. I try to only "follow" people, companies, or websites that I feel add some educational value. For all those others, there is the "ignore" button.

I do sometimes wonder what role social media has played in building my collection. I don't think it's the case most of the time, but I do definitely have a couple of knifes that I picked up solely because I saw them advertised on social media. For example, just yesterday, I picked up my very first ZT (and first non-Spyderco in a year or so) after seeing it advertised as discontinued on a retailer's instantgram. Would I have gotten this knife without seeing it on the social media? No, probably not. However.. after seeing the ad, I was also able to use social media to research the model thoroughly and determine that I would probably really like it. I think this is where the benefits lie. At this stage in my life, I have a pretty good idea of what I will and will not like in a knife. For research purposes before buying, social media can be a fantastic tool for me to determine whether or not I will enjoy a knife before clicking "buy"..
Rick H.

..well, that escalated quickly..

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Spydergirl88 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 pm

I don't have a "collection". I buy knives that interest me and I sell them when they no longer interest me. I have owned almost 200 spyderco knives but never more than 15 at a time. Currently I have less than 10 spyderco folders and 3 spyderco kitchen knives. All of my current Spydies are used. It just so happens that my uses are opening mail, cutting cardboard, and other light edc type tasks. I like to take pretty pictures of pretty knives. I just love spyderco and I'm glad there are so many models to choose from. I also think social media is and has been a detriment to society. It also causes me to spend more money on knives whenever exclusives get announced lol.
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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:52 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 am
Most knives end up in the hands of folks who are not enthusiasts, just like most cars end up in the garages of folks who are not auto enthusiasts. We need to remember that we look at the knife world through a small window.

When looking at premium knives or sprint/limited edition knives you are focusing on a very, very small part of the market.

User vs collector? That is a touchy subject. None of mine are new or sitting in display cases but at this point I have far to many to deny being a collector. Well, unless you want to call me a hoarder. :)

Social media will destroy civilization. Don’t pay too much attention to it. It is a fountain of ill will and misinformation.

Strider is a classy guy. Great response and terrific way to treat potential customers. Sorry you missed your knife but if I got one of them for free I would sell it and buy a different knife.
I think you are right and I ask these two questions:

Why is it a reality that most knives end up in the hands of folks who are not enthusiasts? Is it part of the general entropy/law of least action/downward spiral of life we see in everything from the Creation Point of the universe to the now Winding Down period, all the way to why it is necessary to keep maintaining cars, houses, and clothes, because everything goes from complex and high energy and intricate to less and less complex and lower and lower energy?


As an example, a fellow Spyderco fan once told me how horrified they were to see a Spyderco knife for sale at a yard sale haphazardly tossed in with some semi rusted old kitchen paring knives and books with warped-covers. I don't know if they purchased it or not. How can such a thing be, Darby?

Regarding social media and knives, Spyderco in particular: Some years ago I had a hope that social media would be a "salvation for the reputation of knives" in the minds of millions or billions of people; that as the social media networks grew, knife fans, users, and collectors would use social media to transform and reverse all anti knife rulings and convince people to get on the bandwagon of quality knives like Spyderco, and the Scandinavian knives you and I like, and they would toss to the wayside the cheapo knock off and low quality brands. Alas, my friend, except for a handful of people, I do not see this happening :(

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:57 am

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 pm
I don't have a "collection". I buy knives that interest me and I sell them when they no longer interest me. I have owned almost 200 spyderco knives but never more than 15 at a time. Currently I have less than 10 spyderco folders and 3 spyderco kitchen knives. All of my current Spydies are used. It just so happens that my uses are opening mail, cutting cardboard, and other light edc type tasks. I like to take pretty pictures of pretty knives. I just love spyderco and I'm glad there are so many models to choose from. I also think social media is and has been a detriment to society. It also causes me to spend more money on knives whenever exclusives get announced lol.
This is a good point, Spydergirl. When it comes to choosing a particular knife, notably Spyderco, you seem to have a very good balance of properties: The cosmetic look of the knife and its practical cutting functionality. Are there Spyderco knives that have a good looking design to them which you would get over practical cutting power, or, vice versa, one that cuts and functions well but does not appeal to your sense of cosmetics?

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Wartstein » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:16 am

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 pm
I don't have a "collection". I buy knives that interest me and I sell them when they no longer interest me. I have owned almost 200 spyderco knives but never more than 15 at a time. Currently I have less than 10 spyderco folders and 3 spyderco kitchen knives. All of my current Spydies are used. It just so happens that my uses are opening mail, cutting cardboard, and other light edc type tasks. I like to take pretty pictures of pretty knives. I just love spyderco and I'm glad there are so many models to choose from. I also think social media is and has been a detriment to society. It also causes me to spend more money on knives whenever exclusives get announced lol.
I have quite a similar approach; I have not owned 200 Spydercos like you did, but still some more as I actually have right now over time. Not a single one of those I did NOT like, but still only kept the ones that - for me - are "even better than the rest" and/or connect in a special way with me. Much of my reasoning in that regard is quite practical, for example normally I like a good amount of edge for the package I carry (that´s why I sold my Manix 2 for example). And I´ve learnd what works the best for me in REAL use.

I try- and so far quite successfully - to keep the amount of Spydies at around ten at a time. Not only for financial reasons or cause I don´t like to own too many things generally (which is the case), but also or even mainly because if I had much more than ten knives I just couldn´t seriously carry and use them all, and that happens to be what I like.

The idea of owning an expensive sprint run with a super steel, but never really using -, but keeping it in pristine condition is an appraoch, that just does not get into my head. Though of course there´s nothing wrong with it, but just absolutely not for me.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby zhyla » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:40 pm

Most people own one pocket knife and did not spend $100 on it.

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Spydergirl88 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:41 pm

^True
Sal Glesser wrote:
These are not leggos.

sal

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:51 pm

zhyla wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:40 pm
Most people own one pocket knife and did not spend $100 on it.
But can't they at least have appreciation for and try to get some basic understanding of the world of quality pocket/folding knives, instead of not being able to tell the difference between a Spyderco Military and Endura, vs a "Crap Mart Gas Station Ninja Special" that rattles in the pocket and dulls after the first few cuts on cardboard? I have literally known people to not know or care about the difference? I mean, wow, c`mon y`all. :)

And it's not an issue of lacking the time or interest. Many of them are the same people who can easilly distinguish between the music and life antics of their favorite entertainment personalities, so why not good vs bad knives?

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby knivesandbooks » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:06 pm

I have a collector mind and a user mind, but both amount to the same thing: me buying more knives. My collector mind is mainly focused on traditionals, but has hit my Spyderco purchases too. I buy up whatever traditional I want and haven't used many, especially mint old ones. It's about 50/50. I get that way with Spyderco sometimes, like when I bought one of each of the blurple g10 models just to have a full set. But after that, it is all for using. I do have multiples in my Spyderco's, but for the most part it is to try different steels. I have a growing small fixed blade accumulation of fixed blades with ~3" blades for edc and I don't look at those as collector pieces. They're just useful.

As far as other people, I've seen everything. People will whip out a yellow delrin case trapper and think they have a holy grail knife but I know just as many people who don't give a **** avout knives, yet own a good Spyderco or Benchmade or Protech. They did just enough research to steer them to where they needed to get. I know many more people who use cheap folders but have very nice hunting knives.
I own an assisted knife and am embarrassed to admit I enjoy it.

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:00 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:52 am
bearfacedkiller wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 am
Most knives end up in the hands of folks who are not enthusiasts, just like most cars end up in the garages of folks who are not auto enthusiasts. We need to remember that we look at the knife world through a small window.

When looking at premium knives or sprint/limited edition knives you are focusing on a very, very small part of the market.

User vs collector? That is a touchy subject. None of mine are new or sitting in display cases but at this point I have far to many to deny being a collector. Well, unless you want to call me a hoarder. :)

Social media will destroy civilization. Don’t pay too much attention to it. It is a fountain of ill will and misinformation.

Strider is a classy guy. Great response and terrific way to treat potential customers. Sorry you missed your knife but if I got one of them for free I would sell it and buy a different knife.
I think you are right and I ask these two questions:

Why is it a reality that most knives end up in the hands of folks who are not enthusiasts? Is it part of the general entropy/law of least action/downward spiral of life we see in everything from the Creation Point of the universe to the now Winding Down period, all the way to why it is necessary to keep maintaining cars, houses, and clothes, because everything goes from complex and high energy and intricate to less and less complex and lower and lower energy?


As an example, a fellow Spyderco fan once told me how horrified they were to see a Spyderco knife for sale at a yard sale haphazardly tossed in with some semi rusted old kitchen paring knives and books with warped-covers. I don't know if they purchased it or not. How can such a thing be, Darby?

Regarding social media and knives, Spyderco in particular: Some years ago I had a hope that social media would be a "salvation for the reputation of knives" in the minds of millions or billions of people; that as the social media networks grew, knife fans, users, and collectors would use social media to transform and reverse all anti knife rulings and convince people to get on the bandwagon of quality knives like Spyderco, and the Scandinavian knives you and I like, and they would toss to the wayside the cheapo knock off and low quality brands. Alas, my friend, except for a handful of people, I do not see this happening :(

Knife enthusiasts are a very small part of the customer base in general.

Like cars etc, like Darby said.

It's the same with Computers, VERY small percentage of computers are higher end.

Cameras are the same way.

For every hobby topic there is always a smaller group that are the more serious than the general masses.

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Re: Users, Collectors, and Social Media Madness

Postby Ankerson » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:04 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:51 pm
zhyla wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:40 pm
Most people own one pocket knife and did not spend $100 on it.
But can't they at least have appreciation for and try to get some basic understanding of the world of quality pocket/folding knives, instead of not being able to tell the difference between a Spyderco Military and Endura, vs a "Crap Mart Gas Station Ninja Special" that rattles in the pocket and dulls after the first few cuts on cardboard? I have literally known people to not know or care about the difference? I mean, wow, c`mon y`all. :)

And it's not an issue of lacking the time or interest. Many of them are the same people who can easilly distinguish between the music and life antics of their favorite entertainment personalities, so why not good vs bad knives?

MOST of it has to do with the oldest reason there is.

COST - MONEY.

It really is THAT simple.

Things that really don't cost anything like being a fan of a certain type of music or an entertainer etc. doesn't cost anything. You don't even have to buy anything to listen to them.

Hobbies cost MONEY, and the better the products are the more they cost.

Say someone likes knives but doesn't have a lot of money, they will spend less like buying a BUCK 110 for example. There is a big difference in that and say a Chris Reeve Sebenza cost wise. Start buying more than one knife and it can add up fast.

Same with computers, someone buys a $599 computer then hits the forums asking why they can't play any of the high end games on it. Higher end gaming computers cost like $3,000 for the most part. I see this every single day......

Same with Cameras, some guy gets an entry level camera on sale with a lens for under $500 and wonders why it doesn't perform like they think it should.

A guy goes looking at cars and only has so much to spend, no they aren't going to get the top of the line model with all the bells and whistles because they don't have the budget for it. So they have to settle for something else if they need a car that isn't top of the line.

And on and on.

Some hobbies can get very expensive in a real hurry and not everyone has disposable income to spend on them.
Last edited by Ankerson on Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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