AEB-L Urban Performance Reviews

[bbturbodad]

12dps touched up on a 5000 grit Chosera ceramic stone, polished with 3 and 1 micron diamond lapping film on bass wood, stropped with . 25 CBN on balsa wood.

[steelcity16]

Sal,

Do you think AEB-L would be possible for the Seki models since we are now seeing other Bohler steels like M390 and K390 in Seki? This sounds like a steel that would be good in the Dragonfly/Delica/Endura/Endela/Stretch/Police LW. Maybe a sprint series keeping the brown FRN? :D

[Cambertree]

Great to see all these detailed sharpening jobs. Nice work guys.

Question for you all: what kind of wear are you seeing with extended use on these edges? Just slow wear and minor edge rolling? Any chipping?

For reference as to how low you can go with edge angle, Mora’s standard Scandi grind runs at 11.5 dps for non-Robust models. So even a bit lower than 12dps should still be ok, depending on what your ‘normal’ use is.

AEB-L and Mora's 12C27 are fairly similar in composition, and with AEB-L run in the low 60s HRc, it should be able to go even lower and maintain good edge stability.

I usually keep thinning my edges out until I start to experience issues with rolling or chipping out, then ease back a little, angle-wise from there, until the edge settles down for my usual usage.

It’ll be interesting to see what Sal says regarding a Seki run, Steelcity16.

My immediate thought is that this is a fairly niche afi steel for modern production knives. I wonder if the demand would be there? I’d think that even the average knife knut would probably see it as a step down from VG-10, not just in wear resistance, but corrosion resistance as well. In my experience buying knives on the secondary market, many users barely even resharpen their knives at all, let alone thin them out for higher performance edges.

[ZrowsN1s]

Tried cutting tissue paper, no luck. Still cuts paper towels like a champ :D

As far as wear resistance goes I've been using my strop to touch it up when ever it stops shaving. If you want it to maintain razor sharpness, daily stropping is required. If I use the cutting board, it needs a strop or an ultrafine touch up. (Keep in mind im using a polished edge). I've mostly been cutting food with it not abrasive material, so suspect my dulling is more of the roll variety (or a flattening of the 'teeth') from hitting the plate or cutting board. As opposed to being worn down. All minor though, nothing you can see with the naked eye, no chips either.

[Cambertree]

Tried cutting tissue paper, no luck. Still cuts paper towels like a champ :D

As far as wear resistance goes I've been using my strop to touch it up when ever it stops shaving. If you want it to maintain razor sharpness, daily stropping is required. If I use the cutting board, it needs a strop or an ultrafine touch up. (Keep in mind im using a polished edge). I've mostly been cutting food with it not abrasive material, so suspect my dulling is more of the roll variety (or a flattening of the 'teeth') from hitting the plate or cutting board. As opposed to being worn down. All minor though, nothing you can see with the naked eye, no chips either.

Thanks.

Do you slice on a ceramic plate with this knife sometimes?

I'm guessing if you do, it's only the lightest of contacts, but that's interesting that just stropping will restore a good sharpness level afterwards.

Yeah, I have a custom honesuki in AEB-L which has seen kitchen and game meat processing use for about 3 years, and it responds very well to light stropping with a wide variety of compounds and emulsions, just like a simple carbon steel. At the moment my touch up strop setup is a thin strip of balsa loaded with 1 micron diamond emulsion and smoothside leather with 0.25 micron CBN. The strops are on a wood backing about 3/4" wide - I find it helps for curved cutting edges to have a thinner contact area to control the pressure.

I'll take pics when my Urban arrives here, hopefully next week - and I get it resharpened.

[Doc Dan]

Yes, stropping works very well with this steel. A barbers strap is just great. It is a razor steel and responds pretty good as long as it is not damaged.

[nicked.onaut]

Fine performance with most EDC tasks, but I have not use it in yard/garden/orchard (yet). Works great for packages, envelopes, clamshell plastic, tag removal etc. Ergos in use, comfort in pocket, and ease of deployment are all fine.

Today's task included slicing two rolls of whatchagot sushi.

(maybe more suitable for thread on "...last use of Spydie")

A quick look showed no sushi rice (usu longer prep lead time), but there was some sticky rice. Wakame; egg from neighbor's backyard hens, one of the first avocados off the trees, ginger, mushroom, shredded pickled radish (don't know the name), a touch of jicama. Wasabe in dilute Maggi--down the hatch!
Wakame in this state yields best to a toothy edge, but the AEB-L was plenty good.

[ZrowsN1s]

Tried cutting tissue paper, no luck. Still cuts paper towels like a champ :D

As far as wear resistance goes I've been using my strop to touch it up when ever it stops shaving. If you want it to maintain razor sharpness, daily stropping is required. If I use the cutting board, it needs a strop or an ultrafine touch up. (Keep in mind im using a polished edge). I've mostly been cutting food with it not abrasive material, so suspect my dulling is more of the roll variety (or a flattening of the 'teeth') from hitting the plate or cutting board. As opposed to being worn down. All minor though, nothing you can see with the naked eye, no chips either.

Thanks.

Do you slice on a ceramic plate with this knife sometimes?

I'm guessing if you do, it's only the lightest of contacts, but that's interesting that just stropping will restore a good sharpness level afterwards.

Yeah, I have a custom honesuki in AEB-L which has seen kitchen and game meat processing use for about 3 years, and it responds very well to light stropping with a wide variety of compounds and emulsions, just like a simple carbon steel. At the moment my touch up strop setup is a thin strip of balsa loaded with 1 micron diamond emulsion and smoothside leather with 0.25 micron CBN. The strops are on a wood backing about 3/4" wide - I find it helps for curved cutting edges to have a thinner contact area to control the pressure.

I'll take pics when my Urban arrives here, hopefully next week - and I get it resharpened.

I try to avoid cutting on a ceramic plate, as it does quickly kill the edge. After a ceramic plate dulling I usually touch up on the fine or ultrafine stones and then strop. If it's from the cutting board or normal use I just strop.

My strops are smooth leather on a wood paddle. They're pretty firm. They are also coated in diamond paste. I have 5, 3.5, 2.5, 1, .5, .25 micron strops. So they will actually take a little steel off. A micro sharpening.

[bbturbodad]

Great to see all these detailed sharpening jobs. Nice work guys.

Question for you all: what kind of wear are you seeing with extended use on these edges? Just slow wear and minor edge rolling? Any chipping?

For reference as to how low you can go with edge angle, Mora’s standard Scandi grind runs at 11.5 dps for non-Robust models. So even a bit lower than 12dps should still be ok, depending on what your ‘normal’ use is.

I broke down a few boxes today and had some minor edge rolling. It still cut the cardboard no problem but had a few hangups on paper afterward. A couple passes on a 1 micron diamond stop and it was back to razor sharp. I did a little feather sticking into pine after stropping and again a little rolling that stropped out with 2 passes. I pulled out a Basic 511 Mora as a comparison, feathered into the same piece of pine and it felt just as sharp as it was before the test.

I measured both knives with one of those basic angle tools that have notches in 5 degree increments, the Urban fell between 20-25 notches (my guess is about 23 inclusive) the Mora, which has been sharpened quite a few times looks closer to 25 degrees.

I might try a micro bevel on it to see how it responds but I'm gonna play around with it as is for a bit.

[vivi]

It's cool to see you guys trying out some thin edges. I've been running 10dps back bevels for years. Really improves the performance :)

[bbturbodad]

Did a few sticks on my walk this afternoon... No rolls.

[ZrowsN1s]

Thats a good lookin edge

[Doc Dan]

Great to see all these detailed sharpening jobs. Nice work guys.

Question for you all: what kind of wear are you seeing with extended use on these edges? Just slow wear and minor edge rolling? Any chipping?

For reference as to how low you can go with edge angle, Mora’s standard Scandi grind runs at 11.5 dps for non-Robust models. So even a bit lower than 12dps should still be ok, depending on what your ‘normal’ use is.

I broke down a few boxes today and had some minor edge rolling. It still cut the cardboard no problem but had a few hangups on paper afterward. A couple passes on a 1 micron diamond stop and it was back to razor sharp. I did a little feather sticking into pine after stropping and again a little rolling that stropped out with 2 passes. I pulled out a Basic 511 Mora as a comparison, feathered into the same piece of pine and it felt just as sharp as it was before the test.

I measured both knives with one of those basic angle tools that have notches in 5 degree increments, the Urban fell between 20-25 notches (my guess is about 23 inclusive) the Mora, which has been sharpened quite a few times looks closer to 25 degrees.

I might try a micro bevel on it to see how it responds but I'm gonna play around with it as is for a bit.

13c26/ AEBL should show a good improvement over the 12c28. I wonder why you are getting rolls? I’ve not had that issue on my other knives in this steel unless I was really working it hard with a very thin edge.

[bbturbodad]

13c26/ AEBL should show a good improvement over the 12c28. I wonder why you are getting rolls? I’ve not had that issue on my other knives in this steel unless I was really working it hard with a very thin edge.

I'm not sure but it doesn't seem to like the pine I have here. I used it fairly aggressively on a bunch of random branches on a hike this morning, no rolling or blunting and it was still extremely sharp when returning home. Then a few cuts into the pine and sharpness quickly dropped off.

[Doc Dan]

13c26/ AEBL should show a good improvement over the 12c28. I wonder why you are getting rolls? I’ve not had that issue on my other knives in this steel unless I was really working it hard with a very thin edge.

I'm not sure but it doesn't seem to like the pine I have here. I used it fairly aggressively on a bunch of random branches on a hike this morning, no rolling or blunting and it was still extremely sharp when returning home. Then a few cuts into the pine and sharpness quickly dropped off.

So odd. Maybe it’s a concrete post? :D :D :D Seriously, I wonder if the heat treat is off or it has a burnt edge? When I get well enough I’ll try mine. I wonder if anyone else has had similar problems?

[Cambertree]

Thanks for the thin AEB-L edge reports in use.

Cheers for the further explanation Matt ZrowsN1s. That strop progression sounds good. I usually only tend to go through those 6 micron to 2.5 micron grits after a benchstone sharpening, I’ll have to try them out as part of a touchup stropping routine.

Nicked.onaut - that’s awesome, I loved the whatchagot sushi. Is that pickled radish you mean Japanese daikon? I think it’s called takuan, when it’s pickled. Looks delicious anyway.

Nice edge bbturbodad, and thanks for the test notes.

I’d probably wait for a few more sharpenings before drawing any conclusions.

It’s also worth us remembering that when you are progressively thinning out an edge you will eventually get to that point where the apex gives way by rolling or chipping. That point might be quite different depending on what ‘normal use’ is to different people.

Microbevelling should aid with durability on those thin edges.

So I got my AEB-L Urban on Friday afternoon.

Looking it over, mine seems fine for the price, although you could say the K390 had a little better fit and finish.

The blade tip in mine is nestled safely in the blade channel, and there’s more than enough room on the kick to make further adjustments, as the edge is sharpened back.

I miked the behind-the-edge thickness for the Database thread (average 0.018”), then went to the bench stones straight away, starting with an Atoma progression.

Most of the edge thinning and grinding back was done with the Atoma 140, stopping just short of the apex, then up through the 400, 600, and 1200 diamond plates.

Then it was onto the Venev bonded diamond stones at FEPA-F 800,1200 and 2000 grit.

Then I moved to the finishing stones: a Naniwa Chosera 3000, and the Spyderco Ultrafine.

Then I put a light 15dps microbevel on with the UF rods, and stropped through 6, 2.5, 1, 0.5, 0.25, and 0.1 micron diamond and CBN emulsion charged strops.

The knife takes an extremely keen edge as expected. I’ll see how this edge behaves with occasional touchups with strops and the UF rods, and probably keep thinning it out a bit more, over time.

A couple of quick pics:

[vivi]

So for everyone that's been playing around with this knife....

Would you be for more Spydercos being run in AEB-L?

[p_atrick]

So for everyone that's been playing around with this knife....

Would you be for more Spydercos being run in AEB-L?

Yes, but this steel has the things I prefer: easy to sharpen/reprofile, takes a keen edge, tough (for thinner bevels), and corrosion resistant. I don't mind if I give up wear resistance. I am not sure how many other people are willing to make this trade off. Also, what model would get AEB-L? If you put it in a PM2 or Para3, sure those would sell out in no time. But what if you put it in the Police 4 LW (something I would love to see)? I don't think the sales numbers would be there. I'm glad I got the Urban. I am liking the knife more than I expected, but I am starting to think I won't see AEB-L in the models I tend to like. Such is life I suppose.

[Skywalker]

So for everyone that's been playing around with this knife....

Would you be for more Spydercos being run in AEB-L?

Yes, but this steel has the things I prefer: easy to sharpen/reprofile, takes a keen edge, tough (for thinner bevels), and corrosion resistant. I don't mind if I give up wear resistance. I am not sure how many other people are willing to make this trade off. Also, what model would get AEB-L? If you put it in a PM2 or Para3, sure those would sell out in no time. But what if you put it in the Police 4 LW (something I would love to see)? I don't think the sales numbers would be there. I'm glad I got the Urban. I am liking the knife more than I expected, but I am starting to think I won't see AEB-L in the models I tend to like. Such is life I suppose.

For those characteristics - easy to sharpen, taking a keen edge, tough at thin bevels, corrosion resistant - how much of an advantage does AEB-L offer over VG-10 (which I think the Police 4 LW will be offered in, and if not would probably to be easier to procure in Japan)?

I can't speak to the toughness at thin bevels but for the other three VG-10 already seems to do well in my experience

[p_atrick]

For those characteristics - easy to sharpen, taking a keen edge, tough at thin bevels, corrosion resistant - how much of an advantage does AEB-L offer over VG-10 (which I think the Police 4 LW will be offered in, and if not would probably to be easier to procure in Japan)?

I can't speak to the toughness at thin bevels but for the other three VG-10 already seems to do well in my experience

I can't quite speak to this comparison myself. That said, I think this is the central point of sprint runs. You are not releasing a new steel because it is "better" in some form or fashion, rather you are introducing the steel to an eager audience. If you play the "Do we really need Steel-X when we already have Steel-Y?" game, then you would see a rather static lineup of Spyderco knives. It may very well be that VG-10 gives you 90% of AEB-L (I'm just making this number up), and it the knife might even cost less with VG-10. But that's not the point. Give users the steels they like in the knives they want. This is easier said than done. Especially with a steel like AEB-L. It is similar enough to a variety of already available steels that it may not make financial sense. A steel like K390, however, is a different story. I've come around to seeing posts on this forum asking for a particular steel in a specific model as wish casting. We like what we like. But if you want to argue that we need Steel-X because it is superior than Steel-Y, I'm not going to get invested in the debate. Is AEB-L better than VG-10? Who cares. I want more AEB-L and the model I have my eye on is the Police 4 LW.