AEB-L Urban Performance Reviews

[Ankerson]

Ya k390 and abe-l are in different leagues.

In which ways? I guess I'm seeing a lot of interest in AEB-L but it's not clear what exact advantages it gives. Or more to the point if someone already has the Urban in Elmax and in K390, what's missing if they pass on the AEB-L?

Nothing.

Other than having to sharpen a lot more.

AEB-L is one of those steels that looks great on paper and to the Scientists, but as far as performance goes..... Well there are a lot of better options, just about anything does better that's above pot metal.

All AEB-L is really is a razor blade steel for commercial disposable razor blades.

I am glad that Spyderco made the knife in AEB-L so people can see how it really performs.

One would have to make it a serrated edge to get any sort of real performance out of it.

I still think a Mule Team would have been better, but that's just my opinion.

The idea is it can go very hard and thin and not be as prone to blow out.
Good for those that like that front end sharpeness over raw edge endurance.
The microstructure is finer than most PM steels just the carbides are not as hard.

In the past, I thought it was capped at 62-63.

It can go up to 64-65rc actually

No matter how hard you get it... It still sucks and always will suck.

Steels like VG-10 and N690 are MUCH better overall.

It's one of those time that the Scientists and the hype are dead wrong.

[Deadboxhero]

In which ways? I guess I'm seeing a lot of interest in AEB-L but it's not clear what exact advantages it gives. Or more to the point if someone already has the Urban in Elmax and in K390, what's missing if they pass on the AEB-L?

Nothing.

Other than having to sharpen a lot more.

AEB-L is one of those steels that looks great on paper and to the Scientists, but as far as performance goes..... Well there are a lot of better options, just about anything does better that's above pot metal.

All AEB-L is really is a razor blade steel for commercial disposable razor blades.

I am glad that Spyderco made the knife in AEB-L so people can see how it really performs.

One would have to make it a serrated edge to get any sort of real performance out of it.

I still think a Mule Team would have been better, but that's just my opinion.

The idea is it can go very hard and thin and not be as prone to blow out.
Good for those that like that front end sharpeness over raw edge endurance.
The microstructure is finer than most PM steels just the carbides are not as hard.

In the past, I thought it was capped at 62-63.

It can go up to 64-65rc actually

No matter how hard you get it... It still sucks and always will suck.

Steels like VG-10 and N690 are MUCH better overall.

Ya just go thinner to where the vg10 can't follow. Let the Geometry cut.

[Ankerson]

Nothing.

Other than having to sharpen a lot more.

AEB-L is one of those steels that looks great on paper and to the Scientists, but as far as performance goes..... Well there are a lot of better options, just about anything does better that's above pot metal.

All AEB-L is really is a razor blade steel for commercial disposable razor blades.

I am glad that Spyderco made the knife in AEB-L so people can see how it really performs.

One would have to make it a serrated edge to get any sort of real performance out of it.

I still think a Mule Team would have been better, but that's just my opinion.

The idea is it can go very hard and thin and not be as prone to blow out.
Good for those that like that front end sharpeness over raw edge endurance.
The microstructure is finer than most PM steels just the carbides are not as hard.

In the past, I thought it was capped at 62-63.

It can go up to 64-65rc actually

No matter how hard you get it... It still sucks and always will suck.

Steels like VG-10 and N690 are MUCH better overall.

Ya just go thinner to where the vg10 can't follow. Let the Geometry cut.

You can't go thin enough.

Hit some abrasive material and watch the edge go dead fast.

You can take N690 down very thin.

I have tested AEB-L in more than a few knives, it really is that bad.

Does better with a very coarse edge, very coarse, polish it and you can forget about it, will go dead VERY fast.

Like a 220 grit to 320 grit edge finish.

[sal]

Like most steels, there are ups and downs. We made the knife primarily because you asked for it,

sal

[Ankerson]

Like most steels, there are ups and downs. We made the knife primarily because you asked for it,

sal

Hi Sal,

It wasn't me, that's for sure, I tried to talk you out of it. :D

But it's good that you made it in the end.


Jim

[Deadboxhero]

The idea is it can go very hard and thin and not be as prone to blow out.
Good for those that like that front end sharpeness over raw edge endurance.
The microstructure is finer than most PM steels just the carbides are not as hard.

In the past, I thought it was capped at 62-63.

It can go up to 64-65rc actually

No matter how hard you get it... It still sucks and always will suck.

Steels like VG-10 and N690 are MUCH better overall.

Ya just go thinner to where the vg10 can't follow. Let the Geometry cut.

You can't go thin enough.

Hit some abrasive material and watch the edge go dead fast.

You can take N690 down very thin.

Than bust out the ceramic and watch it come back from the dead like Lazarus :p

I like the merits of the steel. Larrin sent me some at 65rc to play with and I find it enjoyable.
Holds that front end sharpeness nice and not prone to chipping. Has a range of hardnesses to select for different uses from toughness to high sharpeness performance thanks to its fine structure.

Just not a rope killer.

Some folks will like it more than Rex121

Variety is the spice of life after all

[bearfacedkiller]

AEB-L is a good steel and has its applications. However, for me this is where the hype exceeds reality. This is my issue with steel hype.

AEB-L is a clean basic steel that is intended to behave like the premium carbon steels. That means good edge stability, good toughness and easy sharpening.

If you aren’t running a steel like this at great geometry you are missing what it has to offer.

I passed on this knife but I do have an LT Wright knife in it and I like it but it needs to be thinned out. It is also the same steel as Kershaws 13c26 which worked OK and was their base steel for quite a while.

[Ankerson]

No matter how hard you get it... It still sucks and always will suck.

Steels like VG-10 and N690 are MUCH better overall.

Ya just go thinner to where the vg10 can't follow. Let the Geometry cut.

You can't go thin enough.

Hit some abrasive material and watch the edge go dead fast.

You can take N690 down very thin.

Than bust out the ceramic and watch it come back from the dead like Lazarus :p

I like the merits of the steel. Larrin sent me some at 65rc to play with and I find it enjoyable.
Holds that front end sharpeness nice and not prone to chipping. Has a range of hardnesses to select for different uses from toughness to high sharpeness performance thanks to its fine structure.

Just not a rope killer.

Some folks will like it more than Rex121

Variety is the spice of life after all

Or a cardboard killer or anything else that might be somewhat abrasive like animal hide etc.

[TomAiello]

Ya k390 and abe-l are in different leagues.

In which ways? I guess I'm seeing a lot of interest in AEB-L but it's not clear what exact advantages it gives. Or more to the point if someone already has the Urban in Elmax and in K390, what's missing if they pass on the AEB-L?

I'd say that Elmax is better than AEB-L in every way. AEB-L has corrosion resistance over K390, but K390 has much better edge holding.

If you already have the Urban in K390 and Elmax (or the standard N690 version) the real reason to buy the AEB-L is just to try out AEB-L. It's sort of a folding Mule.

[Ankerson]

AEB-L is a good steel and has its applications. However, for me this is where the hype exceeds reality. This is my issue with steel hype.

AEB-L is a clean basic steel that is intended to behave like the premium carbon steels. That means good edge stability, good toughness and easy sharpening.

If you aren’t running a steel like this at great geometry you are missing what it has to offer.

I passed on this knife but I do have an LT Wright knife in it and I like it but it needs to be thinned out. It is also the same steel as Kershaws 13c26 which worked OK and was their base steel for quite a while.

Some hyped it for so long, I won't mention any names... And some with Letters in front or behind their names.

But for those of us who actually do testing we know the hype was well.... Just hype.

Like I said the scientists ogle all over it and some picked up on that so it's been parroted for way too long.

It is as you said a very simple steel, and it was made for razor blades, it's one of those rolled steels.

Cheap and simple to keep the costs down for commercial razor blades that they mass produce in the millions.

Will be very easy to sharpen however since there isn't much to it so people can have fun with that.

[sal]

FYI, I spent some time chatting with Greg Hanson at the Blade Show. He's with MTC and is a very bright lad in their R&D for kitchen development. They specialize in commercial Japanese kitchen knives and cutting boards for knives with very thin sharp edges. We're testing some of their boards now. They are designed for use with these special knives and are soft enough not to damage the edge.

sal

[Ankerson]

FYI, I spent some time chatting with Greg Hanson at the Blade Show. He's with MTC and is a very bright lad in their R&D for kitchen development. They specialize in commercial Japanese kitchen knives and cutting boards for knives with very thin sharp edges. We're testing some of their boards now. They are designed for use with these special knives and are soft enough not to damage the edge.

sal

Awesome. :D

Should work very well with the Murry Carter Collection and the Spyderco Kitchen knives. :cool:

Looking forward to that. :spyder:

Jim

[Deadboxhero]

Ya just go thinner to where the vg10 can't follow. Let the Geometry cut.

You can't go thin enough.

Hit some abrasive material and watch the edge go dead fast.

You can take N690 down very thin.

Than bust out the ceramic and watch it come back from the dead like Lazarus :p

I like the merits of the steel. Larrin sent me some at 65rc to play with and I find it enjoyable.
Holds that front end sharpeness nice and not prone to chipping. Has a range of hardnesses to select for different uses from toughness to high sharpeness performance thanks to its fine structure.

Just not a rope killer.

Some folks will like it more than Rex121

Variety is the spice of life after all

Or a cardboard killer or anything else that might be somewhat abrasive like animal hide etc.

I'm still using rex121, Maxamet, 15v, s125v and s110v.

Those aren't going anywhere. I enjoy them.

Just fun to play with different stuff too. They all can do things differently. I feel Regular folks will still like the AEB-L more in some regards especially with rudimentary sharpening techniques and abrasive gear.

I've noticed I can give someone two different steels and it's the users ability and preference that seems to decide which is better over any of the materials science, edge testing, sharpening wizardry and geek stuff. Which is fine.

I like that and most importantly I like that Sal knows this thus why he offers such a huge range of steels. He seems to enjoy the genuine response folks have and likes seeing the magic people find. "Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing.
Personally, I've found there is no one size fits all.
I do have my favorites however and I like them for a variety of different reasons which doesn't apply universally to others.

[Ankerson]

You can't go thin enough.

Hit some abrasive material and watch the edge go dead fast.

You can take N690 down very thin.

Than bust out the ceramic and watch it come back from the dead like Lazarus :p

I like the merits of the steel. Larrin sent me some at 65rc to play with and I find it enjoyable.
Holds that front end sharpeness nice and not prone to chipping. Has a range of hardnesses to select for different uses from toughness to high sharpeness performance thanks to its fine structure.

Just not a rope killer.

Some folks will like it more than Rex121

Variety is the spice of life after all

Or a cardboard killer or anything else that might be somewhat abrasive like animal hide etc.

I'm still using rex121, Maxamet, 15v, s125v and s110v.

Those aren't going anywhere. I enjoy them.

Just fun to play with different stuff too. They all can do things differently. I feel Regular folks will still like the AEB-L more in some regards especially with rudimentary sharpening techniques and abrasive gear.

I've noticed I can give someone two different steels and it's the users ability and preference that seems to decide which is better over any of the materials science, edge testing, sharpening wizardry and geek stuff. Which is fine.

I like that and most importantly I like that Sal knows this thus why he offers such a huge range of steels. He seems to enjoy the genuine response folks have and likes seeing the magic people find. "Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing.
Personally, I've found there is no one size fits all.
I do have my favorites however and I like them for a variety of different reasons which doesn't apply universally to others.

Yeah...

"Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing exactly. :)

It's a good steel to learn to sharpen on since it's VERY easy to sharpen and get a great edge on.

[Deadboxhero]

Well we know what steel Jim doesn't like :p :D

Than bust out the ceramic and watch it come back from the dead like Lazarus :p

I like the merits of the steel. Larrin sent me some at 65rc to play with and I find it enjoyable.
Holds that front end sharpeness nice and not prone to chipping. Has a range of hardnesses to select for different uses from toughness to high sharpeness performance thanks to its fine structure.

Just not a rope killer.

Some folks will like it more than Rex121

Variety is the spice of life after all

Or a cardboard killer or anything else that might be somewhat abrasive like animal hide etc.

I'm still using rex121, Maxamet, 15v, s125v and s110v.

Those aren't going anywhere. I enjoy them.

Just fun to play with different stuff too. They all can do things differently. I feel Regular folks will still like the AEB-L more in some regards especially with rudimentary sharpening techniques and abrasive gear.

I've noticed I can give someone two different steels and it's the users ability and preference that seems to decide which is better over any of the materials science, edge testing, sharpening wizardry and geek stuff. Which is fine.

I like that and most importantly I like that Sal knows this thus why he offers such a huge range of steels. He seems to enjoy the genuine response folks have and likes seeing the magic people find. "Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing.
Personally, I've found there is no one size fits all.
I do have my favorites however and I like them for a variety of different reasons which doesn't apply universally to others.

Yeah...

"Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing exactly. :)

[Ankerson]

Well we know what steel Jim doesn't like :p :D

Or a cardboard killer or anything else that might be somewhat abrasive like animal hide etc.

I'm still using rex121, Maxamet, 15v, s125v and s110v.

Those aren't going anywhere. I enjoy them.

Just fun to play with different stuff too. They all can do things differently. I feel Regular folks will still like the AEB-L more in some regards especially with rudimentary sharpening techniques and abrasive gear.

I've noticed I can give someone two different steels and it's the users ability and preference that seems to decide which is better over any of the materials science, edge testing, sharpening wizardry and geek stuff. Which is fine.

I like that and most importantly I like that Sal knows this thus why he offers such a huge range of steels. He seems to enjoy the genuine response folks have and likes seeing the magic people find. "Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing.
Personally, I've found there is no one size fits all.
I do have my favorites however and I like them for a variety of different reasons which doesn't apply universally to others.

Yeah...

"Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing exactly. :)

Never have.

It was overblown, way overblown to the point of why does it even exist in anything other than razor blades.

I remember back in the 70's when just about all knives sucked as far as edge retention went other than customs for the most part.

AEB-L brought back those fond memories for me having to sharpen the knives all the time. LOL

Had to carry a sharpening stone with me to work back in those days, 70's and 80's. :rolleyes:

Used to carry a 3 bladed stockman for work so I had 3 blades to use, then once they were dull I would sharpen them and start again.

Fast forward to these days and I could go a month doing the same amount of work before having to touch the edge on one blade. :spyder:


We have come along way. :D

[TkoK83Spy]

So a coarse, toothy grind is best for this steel? I may give that a shot within the next couple couple days. Mine isn't polished, but I'm curious to give a coarse edge a shot.

[Ankerson]

So a coarse, toothy grind is best for this steel? I may give that a shot within the next couple couple days. Mine isn't polished, but I'm curious to give a coarse edge a shot.

Yeah, coarser the better, 220 to 320 grit.

[Deadboxhero]

You should give it another try. I'll have to send one over.

I found it was more wear resistant than 1095

Well we know what steel Jim doesn't like :p :D

I'm still using rex121, Maxamet, 15v, s125v and s110v.

Those aren't going anywhere. I enjoy them.

Just fun to play with different stuff too. They all can do things differently. I feel Regular folks will still like the AEB-L more in some regards especially with rudimentary sharpening techniques and abrasive gear.

I've noticed I can give someone two different steels and it's the users ability and preference that seems to decide which is better over any of the materials science, edge testing, sharpening wizardry and geek stuff. Which is fine.

I like that and most importantly I like that Sal knows this thus why he offers such a huge range of steels. He seems to enjoy the genuine response folks have and likes seeing the magic people find. "Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing.
Personally, I've found there is no one size fits all.
I do have my favorites however and I like them for a variety of different reasons which doesn't apply universally to others.

Yeah...

"Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing exactly. :)

Never have.

It was overblown, way overblown to the point of why does it even exist in anything other than razor blades.

I remember back in the 70's when just about all knives sucked as far as edge retention went other than customs for the most part.

AEB-L brought back those fond memories for me having to sharpen the knives all the time. LOL

Had to carry a sharpening stone with me to work back in those days, 70's and 80's.

Used to carry a 3 bladed stockman for work so I had 3 blades to use, them once they were dull I would sharpen them and start again.

[Ankerson]

You should give it another try. I'll have to send one over.

I found it was more wear resistant than 1095

Well we know what steel Jim doesn't like :p :D

Yeah...

"Give it to Mikey, see if he likes it" sorta thing exactly. :)

Never have.

It was overblown, way overblown to the point of why does it even exist in anything other than razor blades.

I remember back in the 70's when just about all knives sucked as far as edge retention went other than customs for the most part.

AEB-L brought back those fond memories for me having to sharpen the knives all the time. LOL

Had to carry a sharpening stone with me to work back in those days, 70's and 80's.

Used to carry a 3 bladed stockman for work so I had 3 blades to use, them once they were dull I would sharpen them and start again.

I tested a custom not all that long ago with a good HT.

Not much difference than the others I ran.

You can't get around the alloy content, or should I say the lack of, at least in my testing anyway.