HAP40 upgrade?

[awa54]

I know this has been touched on in other threads, but I'll give it its own space here:

CPM REX45 seems to have been an even bigger hit with steel and edge junkies than HAP40, as well as having a real world lift in some performance parameters, likely because of higher hardness (or at least a different HT).

In light of this, what are the chances that HAP40 might get a CQI heat treatment, to bring its hardness up closer to the level REX45 as it was done in the Millie family Sprints?

Any official comments from Spyderco on whether or not this might happen some day and the reasons for that decision would be much appreciated!

[Pelagic]

How about some REX 86?

[bearfacedkiller]

HAP72!!!!!! That is the upgrade we need. Go big or go home! :D

[awa54]

Now, now, HAP40 is a proven performer and in limited production right now, where the other HAP series steels from Hitachi haven't been offered, let alone had the bugs worked out...

Don't get me wrong, HAP40 is a steel I'm glad to have available, but it *could* be even better if the results from REX45 are any indication.

[legOFwhat?]

I wonder if KC would do a Pakkawood cqi'd Hap40 police exclusive?

[ferider]

Somebody else commented in another thread that cladded HAP40 is limited in HRC due to the cladding. Made sense to me.

I'll buy any 3.7" or longer Seki non-cladded, higher HRC40 Spydie made in the future :) Endura or Police would be superb !

[Pelagic]

HAP72!!!!!! That is the upgrade we need. Go big or go home! :D

HAP72 Endura would be awesome.

[p_atrick]

I wonder if KC would do a Pakkawood cqi'd Hap40 police exclusive?

So the Police 4 is made in Italy. The Police 4 LW will be made in Japan. One has full steel liners with G10 overlays. The other has nested and milled liners with FRN scales. While I would love to see the knife you describe above, it seems like the factory equipped to manufacture the handle is in Italy, while the factory that can manufacturer the blade is in Japan. Is this doable? I am guessing not, but what do I know. How about a Police 4 with Pakkawood scales and a European steel? I would suggest ABE-L.

[bearfacedkiller]

I wonder if KC would do a Pakkawood cqi'd Hap40 police exclusive?

So the Police 4 is made in Italy. The Police 4 LW will be made in Japan. One has full steel liners with G10 overlays. The other has nested and milled liners with FRN scales. While I would love to see the knife you describe above, it seems like the factory equipped to manufacture the handle is in Italy, while the factory that can manufacturer the blade is in Japan. Is this doable? I am guessing not, but what do I know. How about a Police 4 with Pakkawood scales and a European steel? I would suggest ABE-L.

Police4 G10 is made in Seki City.

[p_atrick]

Police4 G10 is made in Seki City.

Really? I don't know why I assumed it was made in Italy. Thanks for the correction and bring on the HAP40 and Pakkawood!

[bearfacedkiller]

Somebody else commented in another thread that cladded HAP40 is limited in HRC due to the cladding. Made sense to me.

I'll buy any 3.7" or longer Seki non-cladded, higher HRC40 Spydie made in the future :) Endura or Police would be superb !

I have seen cladded HAP40 kitchen knives listed as 65-66.

[Rpp]

Hap40 is a Japanese Steel used in Seki’s Japanese sprints. Rex is a USA Steel. I guess you want really expensive sprint runs of FRN knives but real people don’t.

[Albatross]

Hap40 is a Japanese Steel used in Seki’s Japanese sprints. Rex is a USA Steel. I guess you want really expensive sprint runs of FRN knives but real people don’t.

The two steels are analogous, so an improved heat treatment on a new run of Seki knives, should yield similar performance to Rex45 and cost less than the USA models in that steel. It shouldn't be any more expensive than the previous run. If other companies can produce a laminated Hap40 blade at around 65-66 HRC, so can Spyderco. Can and will are two different things though.

I don't remember which thread it was, but Sal himself mentioned how Seki decided on the heat treat for their Hap40 blades, so a harder run might not be in the cards.

[ZrowsN1s]

.... I guess you want really expensive sprint runs of FRN knives but real people don’t.

What do you mean? Did you think the Hap40 Sprints were too expensive? And who are the 'real' people?

[TomAiello]

I think he was saying that shipping REX45 to Japan would greatly increase the cost.

[TomAiello]

Honestly, I don't see HAP40 as an upgrade to the Police. I prefer K390, so I'd rather have the "normal" than the "sprint" variant, if that were the case.

[jpm2]

The way I understand it, there's no way to hrc test a cladded metal, like hap40/sus410.
If that's the case, it can be listed at any hardness without backing it up.

I have cladded hap40 that was reported at 64-66. I guarantee it's not, based on other steels I have that are verified at that hardness and less.

I would invite unclad hap40 at 64+

[awa54]

Hap40 is a Japanese Steel used in Seki’s Japanese sprints. Rex is a USA Steel. I guess you want really expensive sprint runs of FRN knives but real people don’t.

Changing the HT on an existing steel shouldn't up the price by more than a few bucks per unit (or might not change it at all, depending on what's required to increase the hardness of HAP40 to approximate the HT that was done on the REX45 blades from Golden). So a heat treatment change as CQI, should be a fairly painless thing (aside from possible hurt feelings at Sakai) and elevating the hardness of HAP40 to gain apex stability as seen in the REX45 Sprints seems like a slam-dunk to me, I mean... who wouldn't want the ability to carve brass rods without rolling an edge??

That said, I just bought the Bento Box Shop exclusive Delica with M390 (an Austrian steel) for $108 which is about $10 bucks more than the HAP40 FRN Sprint Delica sold for, so apparently some real people *will* buy "really expensive" Sprint runs of FRN knives

[Bloke]

The way I understand it, there's no way to hrc test a cladded metal, like hap40/sus410.
If that's the case, it can be listed at any hardness without backing it up.

Hey J, I’m not too sure this is accurate. The reason being I can’t help but think that any outer cladding could be easily and accurately ground away both sides on a surface grinder to expose a clean and parallel core steel to test hardness. :)

Anyhow, I’m all for hard and tough rusty blade steels particularly in a Military.

[Wartstein]

The way I understand it, there's no way to hrc test a cladded metal, like hap40/sus410.
If that's the case, it can be listed at any hardness without backing it up.

Hey J, I’m not too sure this is accurate. The reason being I can’t help but think that any outer cladding could be easily and accurately ground away both sides on a surface grinder to expose a clean and parallel core steel to test hardness. :)

Anyhow, I’m all for hard and tough rusty blade steels particularly in a Military.

I don't know anything about hrc testing, but would the amount of uncladded HAP 40 seen here on my Stretch for example not be enough for that? Look how high the "cladding line" is up the blade...