Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

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Genotoxic
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Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:11 pm

Edit:
Alright guys got a mystery package in the mail unexpectedly today and it was a replacement Maxamet PM2! Spyderco sent me a beautiful copy... probably the best action on a knife I've ever had and everything else about it is perfection. Yes it took a little bit and I was somewhat in the dark through the process but overall it worked out.

Along with the knife I have a letter written to me by Kate Mastriano who is Sal's assistant. In the letter she says the blade must have been from a very early batch where heat treat was suspect and that they've issued me a new Maxamet PM2.

So I'm guessing there was at most only a few blades that fell into this first batch and I wouldn't be surprised if they were never intended to go out into the consumers hand but happened to slip by on accident.

Knowing Spyderco they've gotten their HT down and they're producing proper Maxamet blades by now this one is just a fluke. Also the first runs of Maxamet PM2's and Para 3s were selling just as fast as a sprint run knife so if this was a major issue we most likely would have heard more about it by now but everyone seems to be pretty content with their copies.

For everyone doubting or worried about making the purchase I would say you've got nothing to worry about at all! They're well into production of these guys now so any bugs have been ironed out and if you come across issues Spyderco has your back.



Hello, recently I acquired a Maxamet PM2 from Blades Canada. This one is from the recent batch of Maxamet PM2's that went out to various dealers over the last few weeks... and they're popular because they've all sold out almost immediately. The copy I received is absolutely perfect fit and finish wise, or so I thought because there is something majorly wrong with it.

The issue I have is the steel is soft... like to the point I can bend the tip of the blade with my thumb. When I got the knife I took it to the sharpener to put a fresh edge on it at the angle I prefer. When sharpening it felt super soft and gummy, I also have a Maxamet Native 5 so I have sharpened the steel a few times and it felt like a completely different steel this time around. Strange but I didn't think anything of it.

So I went through my normal progression and stropped and finished with an edge that was super aggressive. I finished on 600 grit stones and a 1 micron diamond paste to give me a refined but ultra aggressive edge which seems to go really well with Maxamet from my previous experience. To finish my sharpening sessions I usually take my knives to a soft piece of pine to do some shaving... theory being if there is any burr left it'll remove it and also if I did a poor job of sharpening ill be able to tell. This is where I noticed a major problem.

After a few light downward passes on the pine taking off shavings each time I looked at the knife to inspect my edge. What I didn't expect to see was that first 1/4" of the blade was bent and warped and also the edge was all rolled and bent, and I wasn't heaving on the knife like I was trying to cut through the piece of wood I was lightly shaving the wood. This is odd, it would be odd for any steel that Spyderco deals with but especially Maxamet due to it being probably the hardest steel used on production knives currently. I doubt Maxamet even normally sets a bend... it probably would snap before bending. The ease of bending the steel is insane, like as in I was able to remove a bit of the bend by pressing on it with my thumb. So I know there is a major issue with my copy.

Has anyone else ran into this issue with the new run of Maxamet PM2's? I will give Spyderco a call Monday to let them know of whats gone on here so they can deal with it how they please but I'm writing to see if this is an issue anyone else has ran into.

With all this being said I still love Spyderco products and see this as a super rare incident, I don't want any negative discussion over the issue and would like to just share and have this be made aware so that Spyderco can nail Maxamet production because its a super cool steel but also apparently a real pain to work with.
Last edited by Genotoxic on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sal
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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby sal » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:09 pm

Hi Genotoxic.

Welcome to our forum and sorry for your experience.

I'd really like to get the knife back for testing here to see what's amuck. We'll be contacting you next week.

sal

Genotoxic
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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:51 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:09 pm
Hi Genotoxic.

Welcome to our forum and sorry for your experience.

I'd really like to get the knife back for testing here to see what's amuck. We'll be contacting you next week.

sal
Sounds great Sal. It seems possibly just the first 1/4" - 1/2" of the blade is soft and the rest is normal, though after I ran into the issue I have parked the knife to make sure it stays as is and to not further damage it.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Expertnajfnovice » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:25 am

I find that mine feels really soft too. Super easy to raise a burr on Diamond. First edge i put on rolled over slightlyduring a days work. Seems better now though but it does seem to handle impact suspicously well from what I've gathered. Dropped it on it's tip in a hard wood floor, no issue. Hit a staple when opening a box, not a mark on the edge.

Also, I kill the edge before sharpening with some perpendicular passes on Diamond or ceramic. This knife was still svårt, biting in to my nail and skin, after TWO light strokes on Diamond. Never seen anything like that before and not sure what all this implies.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Pelagic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:10 pm

Please post back with all findings, both of you. I'm looking forward to getting my first blade in Maxamet soon. I've sharpened a Maxamet Mule for someone before and its hardness was certainly apparent. However, it WAS easier than s110v, as far as time invested to achieve high sharpness.
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Genotoxic
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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:44 pm

Expertnajfnovice wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:25 am
I find that mine feels really soft too. Super easy to raise a burr on Diamond. First edge i put on rolled over slightlyduring a days work. Seems better now though but it does seem to handle impact suspicously well from what I've gathered. Dropped it on it's tip in a hard wood floor, no issue. Hit a staple when opening a box, not a mark on the edge.

Also, I kill the edge before sharpening with some perpendicular passes on Diamond or ceramic. This knife was still svårt, biting in to my nail and skin, after TWO light strokes on Diamond. Never seen anything like that before and not sure what all this implies.
Hmmm, the PM2 I sent in was so soft the tip would have bent over when it hit the hardwood floor. My other experience with sharpening Maxamet on diamond is it actually sharpens strangely quick... like the first time I reprofiled my Native 5 I expected such a chore and actually found it about as easy as S35VN. That being said Maxamet shouldn't roll at all so if you're frequently getting edge rolls but no chips maybe something is up.

I'd say use it a little more and keep an eye on it. If it still acts strange maybe contact Spyderco and see if that behavior is normal or not... they're good and will get it sorted for you.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:50 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:10 pm
Please post back with all findings, both of you. I'm looking forward to getting my first blade in Maxamet soon. I've sharpened a Maxamet Mule for someone before and its hardness was certainly apparent. However, it WAS easier than s110v, as far as time invested to achieve high sharpness.
Well I've sent in the PM2 that I originally posted about to Spyderco and it was delivered to them almost 2 weeks ago. Maybe the service department is super busy, also I know Sal himself wanted to look over the knife and hes a busy guy himself but I haven't heard anything back yet about the knife.

That being said I couldn't resist a Maxamet Para 3 when they went up for sale and bought one also haha. I figured I was probably good and wouldn't run into this issue again and so far so good! Honestly if you've got a Maxamet model in mind I'd say you're safe in buying it.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby ZrowsN1s » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:08 pm

Genotoxic wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:50 pm
Pelagic wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:10 pm
Please post back with all findings, both of you. I'm looking forward to getting my first blade in Maxamet soon. I've sharpened a Maxamet Mule for someone before and its hardness was certainly apparent. However, it WAS easier than s110v, as far as time invested to achieve high sharpness.
Well I've sent in the PM2 that I originally posted about to Spyderco and it was delivered to them almost 2 weeks ago. Maybe the service department is super busy, also I know Sal himself wanted to look over the knife and hes a busy guy himself but I haven't heard anything back yet about the knife.

That being said I couldn't resist a Maxamet Para 3 when they went up for sale and bought one also haha. I figured I was probably good and wouldn't run into this issue again and so far so good! Honestly if you've got a Maxamet model in mind I'd say you're safe in buying it.
I figured it would take them a bit to get to it. But I'm interested to know what they find. Congrats on the Maxamet para3, one of my favorites. The lw native is pretty awesome too.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
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Genotoxic
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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:10 pm

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:08 pm
Genotoxic wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:50 pm
Pelagic wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:10 pm
Please post back with all findings, both of you. I'm looking forward to getting my first blade in Maxamet soon. I've sharpened a Maxamet Mule for someone before and its hardness was certainly apparent. However, it WAS easier than s110v, as far as time invested to achieve high sharpness.
Well I've sent in the PM2 that I originally posted about to Spyderco and it was delivered to them almost 2 weeks ago. Maybe the service department is super busy, also I know Sal himself wanted to look over the knife and hes a busy guy himself but I haven't heard anything back yet about the knife.

That being said I couldn't resist a Maxamet Para 3 when they went up for sale and bought one also haha. I figured I was probably good and wouldn't run into this issue again and so far so good! Honestly if you've got a Maxamet model in mind I'd say you're safe in buying it.
I figured it would take them a bit to get to it. But I'm interested to know what they find. Congrats on the Maxamet para3, one of my favorites. The lw native is pretty awesome too.
I'm also really curious to figure out what happened with the knife, although there may be a chance Sal wont disclose the issue as really its completely up to his digression. Depending on what happened it could make other people paranoid and blow an isolated issue into something everyone thinks they've got... we will see I guess

With that aside, the Maxamet knives are finished so well! The PM2 I had was perfect and so is the Para 3. Fall shut glass like action with zero play,perfectly centered and the mirror stonewash is a really nice blade finish.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby uncle_boomboom » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:26 am

Just bought PM2 in Maxamet a couple of days ago. A beauty, a bunny and joy forever if not for this issues discribed here. And now I am not usre whether mine has it, or not.
How do I test/check? Has anyone tried to scratch a glass bottle with the spine of the blade? Anything with HRC >61 is supposed to leave a visible mark, or so I was told. Will give it a try I guess.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Sober_Survival » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:55 pm

Any updates?
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Genotoxic
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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:29 pm

uncle_boomboom wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:26 am
Just bought PM2 in Maxamet a couple of days ago. A beauty, a bunny and joy forever if not for this issues discribed here. And now I am not usre whether mine has it, or not.
How do I test/check? Has anyone tried to scratch a glass bottle with the spine of the blade? Anything with HRC >61 is supposed to leave a visible mark, or so I was told. Will give it a try I guess.
I would say yours is probably fine, unless you notice it behaving really weird I wouldn't think twice about it... that'll just drive you crazy!

Spyderco makes their knives to such high tolerances I'd say if they make 100 Maxamet PM2's just maybe 1-2 will have issues making 98% of the knives perfectly fine and in working order

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:32 pm

Sober_Survival wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:55 pm
Any updates?
Nope... my knife was delivered to Spyderco the first week of July and now we're a quarter way through August. I know they're busy but its getting on the excessive side now. I might follow up next week if I don't hear anything just to see, I think 6 weeks is a fair amount of time to allot them before pestering haha.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Sober_Survival » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:22 pm

Genotoxic wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:32 pm
Sober_Survival wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:55 pm
Any updates?
Nope... my knife was delivered to Spyderco the first week of July and now we're a quarter way through August. I know they're busy but its getting on the excessive side now. I might follow up next week if I don't hear anything just to see, I think 6 weeks is a fair amount of time to allot them before pestering haha.
Right on, yea it is. I'm curious to see what they say!
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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:39 pm

Sober_Survival wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:22 pm
Genotoxic wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:32 pm
Sober_Survival wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:55 pm
Right on, yea it is. I'm curious to see what they say!
Me too! I'm curious if it was human error or malfunction of machinery as its a problem that could have lead from many sources. Plus I really wanna get a Maxamet PM2 back haha... had it for all of maybe 8 hours before I noticed the problem and tucked it away in its box.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby The Mastiff » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:31 pm

They can be working with both the heat treating folks as well as the company that produced the steel. They might even have to include the company that rolled the steel down to knife thickness ( Niagara perhaps?). These sort of things are rarely only " Yep, something is wrong" situations. The heat treat guys produce the information on what time and temp, the lab checks the hardness, grain and probably uses the X ray gun to check that the steel is made up of what it is supposed to be. They will likely check other knives from that run in comparison before the lab gets down to actually testing the steel performance itself on a knife from the batch that they know everything is correct on and check it in comparison to your knife. With two maybe 3 other places that could be getting involved it's no wonder it can take time. In addition when you are dealing with small companies 1 person taking time off can delay things.

It's tough waiting but in the end you will get taken care of one way or another.

Joe

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby jpm2 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:06 am

I don't think it takes more than a few minutes to confirm:
"The issue I have is the steel is soft... like to the point I can bend the tip of the blade with my thumb."

If confirmed, no need to wait for a battery of tests to determine why, this knife is not going back to the customer.
At this point I split in 2 directions, 1st making it right for the customer, 2nd troubleshooting the problem.

If on the other hand the customer complaint hasn't been verified yet.... different story.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby The Mastiff » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:29 am

Getting the customer a replacement is the easy part. Figuring out what happened and how it happened has to be done whether the customer knows or cares . You can't keep things from happening again unless you know how it happened in the first place.

I can't or won't get into how much time is enough. There are too many things we don't know to make statements like that.
Last edited by The Mastiff on Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby awa54 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:31 am

jpm2 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:06 am
I don't think it takes more than a few minutes to confirm:
"The issue I have is the steel is soft... like to the point I can bend the tip of the blade with my thumb."

If confirmed, no need to wait for a battery of tests to determine why, this knife is not going back to the customer.
At this point I split in 2 directions, 1st making it right for the customer, 2nd troubleshooting the problem.

If on the other hand the customer complaint hasn't been verified yet.... different story.

right? once the defect is confirmed, the reason is almost immaterial, you send the customer a new one and sort out why it's defective later.

...unless you don't have a replacement on hand, which is certainly possible considering the hot demand for this particular knife.
-David

still more knives than sharpening stones...

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Re: Problem with Maxamet PM2 from the new run

Postby Genotoxic » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:19 pm

To answer the discussion going on, I really wish I knew how to post pictures at the time when this happened because I would have shown with some pictures the problem and as quoted earlier I literally was able to take some of the bend out that occured at the tip with just my thumb... not something a normal person should be able to do to any steel let alone maxamet.

Also I own plenty of great Spyderco knives so I dont need the PM2 at all really and if it takes 4 months to get resolved I wont be bothered.

I just more want to follow up to make sure my knife got to spyderco safely across the border and all that... because my tracking said delivered but really I don't know what went on without some verification from spyderco.


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