Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

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Evil D
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Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby Evil D » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:37 pm

I recently received a third Sliverax from Paul, and in another thread he mentioned that the bearing race/tang of the blade near the race that was originally exposed has been changed and/or milled less so that the bearings are not exposed when looking at the end of the knife when closed.

If you're not familiar, here's what we're talking about. Original on the left, new on the right:

Image
Image

What's really interesting is that Paul has yet a third knife that is somewhere between these two, that has the bearings exposed but less so than the original one. I had that knife for a minute but I didn't get around to getting it apart for pics.

That said, I do have some comparisons between these two, and it's more than just the amount of the tang that's milled out (or, milled into I guess you'd say).

To sum it up, the bearings are just slightly smaller in diameter along with the milled recess that they sit into. This means the area at the end of the tang that gets milled out for the lock face no longer cuts into the bearing race.

Old on left, new on right:

Image
(the detent path has been polished on the left/old knife)

As you can see, it isn't a whole lot but the bearings are enclosed now. It may look like it's just the milled area that the bearings sit into that's smaller, but the bearings themselves are also just slightly smaller, because the old bearings will not fit into the new bearing race:

Image

Another detail that really stood out to me is the finish on the inside of the bearing race is MUCH smoother than it was on the original launch knife. In this pic I have even tried to smooth out the machined grooves inside the race and the new knife is still smoother:

Image
(you can also see in this pic that the detent ball on the new knife is slightly larger, this is Paul's doing and it makes the flipping action a good bit better)


Oh the other side of the tang we also have some differences, since the bearing race is a smaller circle, it creates another lip where extra material is left between the bearing race and the groove that the stop pin travels in:

Image

You can also see that the machined surface inside the race is smoother on the new knife on both sides:

Image

Again, keep in mind that I did what I could to polish and smooth the old bearing race, without doing so much that it removed too much metal and created play.

I'm really interested to see the insides of this middle CQI knife if Paul can get us some shots of it taken apart. If anyone's interested, the date code on the latest CQI version that I have is "IR", so this knife was made (or I guess at least boxed) on 09/18. There isn't any other dates on the tang that I've seen.

From the flipper/bearing pivot knives I've owned, which admittedly aren't a lot (3 Sliverax now, Southard, Mantra 1) this is by for my smoothest one and I haven't even polished the internals yet. Once you dial it in, it's silky smooth and swings like a pendulum and with Paul's tweaked detent hole it flips like a champ in either button press or light switch method, and I haven't had a single failed flip yet and there is ZERO blade play.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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hambone56rx
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby hambone56rx » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:14 pm

Thanks for the update David! Kudos to Spyderco for always doing CQI.

Hamilton

SteveMidwest
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby SteveMidwest » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:14 pm

Thank you much for this, Evil D.

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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby ChrisinHove » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:23 am

The Sliverax seems to have dropped off the radar, but still appeals strongly to me. I reckon Paul Alexander might be the kind of guy who lies awake at night thinking about how to make things better ....

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Tims
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby Tims » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:16 am

If I was interested in this model, I would appreciate a post like this. Good on you for going to the trouble.

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JonLeBlanc
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby JonLeBlanc » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:59 am

That's interesting; are the circular marks in the recesses original machining marks? Also, what sort of compound did you use to smooth out your first piece? Did it take very long or much effort? I ask because I'm thinking about trying to smooth out the tang on my V-Toku Stretch; despite thorough cleaning and lubrication it still feels slightly gritty. Also one small point, the bearing race is the ring (in this case bronze) that the balls are seated in ;)
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby Bill1170 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:19 am

JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:59 am
That's interesting; are the circular marks in the recesses original machining marks? Also, what sort of compound did you use to smooth out your first piece? Did it take very long or much effort? I ask because I'm thinking about trying to smooth out the tang on my V-Toku Stretch; despite thorough cleaning and lubrication it still feels slightly gritty. Also one small point, the bearing race is the ring (in this case bronze) that the balls are seated in ;)
My understanding is that the bearing “race” denotes a steel surface that the bearings ride against and it takes the pressure. The bronze disk that holds the individual balls a set distance from one another is called the “cage.”

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JonLeBlanc
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby JonLeBlanc » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:24 am

Hmmm well perhaps cage is another word for the same thing, but a bearing race is the assembly that "contains" the balls themselves. Oftentimes it consists of an inner and outer ring (although not in the case of these knife bearings).
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

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Evil D
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:37 am

JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:24 am
Hmmm well perhaps cage is another word for the same thing, but a bearing race is the assembly that "contains" the balls themselves. Oftentimes it consists of an inner and outer ring (although not in the case of these knife bearings).
A race is what the bearings roll on. The bronze cage just keeps them from flying everywhere when you take them apart. Even in the case of caged bearings they will still roll along a race.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(bearing)


This may be a better example than Wiki gives you. When you do a wheel bearing on a car (or just about any bearing on a car) you often replace the bearings and the race and you get both when you buy. The smooth rings are the races.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/cur ... fYEALw_wcB


Then if you wanna complicate things even more, cam and crank bearings are basically just a smooth ring of metal (usually two halves of a ring that make a full circle) and have no rolling element at all. So when a car engine "spins a bearing" it means one half of the bearing circle has shifted out of place, sometimes up and onto the other half.

These are connecting rod bearings that go between your rods and crank shaft.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... SX425_.jpg
Last edited by Evil D on Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Evil D
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:42 am

JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:59 am
That's interesting; are the circular marks in the recesses original machining marks? Also, what sort of compound did you use to smooth out your first piece? Did it take very long or much effort?

I only used a felt polishing wheel on the bearing races because I was afraid of removing too much metal. If you look close at the pics you can see that the bearings do a pretty good job of wearing their own groove and over time have gotten smoother than they were when new (this is a similar effect of the other issue where we saw dents in washers from bearings). On the tang area that I polished where the detent ball slides, I sanded that with fine sandpaper up to 3k and polished it with compound on a cotton wheel on a Dremel.

I used this pack of sandpaper, pretty cheap and had the grit selection I wanted.
120 To 3000 Assorted Grit... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZ6TG05?re ... b_ap_share
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby JonLeBlanc » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:24 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:42 am
JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:59 am
That's interesting; are the circular marks in the recesses original machining marks? Also, what sort of compound did you use to smooth out your first piece? Did it take very long or much effort?

I only used a felt polishing wheel on the bearing races because I was afraid of removing too much metal. If you look close at the pics you can see that the bearings do a pretty good job of wearing their own groove and over time have gotten smoother than they were when new (this is a similar effect of the other issue where we saw dents in washers from bearings). On the tang area that I polished where the detent ball slides, I sanded that with fine sandpaper up to 3k and polished it with compound on a cotton wheel on a Dremel.

I used this pack of sandpaper, pretty cheap and had the grit selection I wanted.
120 To 3000 Assorted Grit... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZ6TG05?re ... b_ap_share
Oh ok, u know almost as soon as I posted that I was like "I wonder if maybe he used a dremel" and whaddya know lol. How did you use the sandpaper, just on your fingertip?
Also I'd just like to say that you're one of the Spyderlings from whom I've learned a lot, so I certainly did not mean to come across as untoward re bearings.
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

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Evil D
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:47 pm

JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:24 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:42 am
JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:59 am
That's interesting; are the circular marks in the recesses original machining marks? Also, what sort of compound did you use to smooth out your first piece? Did it take very long or much effort?

I only used a felt polishing wheel on the bearing races because I was afraid of removing too much metal. If you look close at the pics you can see that the bearings do a pretty good job of wearing their own groove and over time have gotten smoother than they were when new (this is a similar effect of the other issue where we saw dents in washers from bearings). On the tang area that I polished where the detent ball slides, I sanded that with fine sandpaper up to 3k and polished it with compound on a cotton wheel on a Dremel.

I used this pack of sandpaper, pretty cheap and had the grit selection I wanted.
120 To 3000 Assorted Grit... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZ6TG05?re ... b_ap_share
Oh ok, u know almost as soon as I posted that I was like "I wonder if maybe he used a dremel" and whaddya know lol. How did you use the sandpaper, just on your fingertip?
Also I'd just like to say that you're one of the Spyderlings from whom I've learned a lot, so I certainly did not mean to come across as untoward re bearings.

Thank you, I'm glad to help. I've learned practically everything knife related I know from this forum so I'm glad to give back where I can.

Sanding I use a combination of bare hands and wrapping the paper around something small and flat. I got a little carried away on my Caribbean and sanded a bit outside of what the handle covers so you can see scratches now. I've been using my Sharpmaker rods wrapped in paper to get a more controlled area of sanding. If you sand down the detent path it makes a big difference in how smooth the opening action is. A lot of that gritty feeling is from the detent ball riding along the machined surface of the tang. You can also sand down the sides of the blade where the washers sit, but you have to be careful to keep the blade "square" or it's very easy to ruin the action even if you do end up making it smoother.

All that aside, my original Sliverax is still ridiculously smooth even with those grooves in the tang where the bearings go. The blade swings literally with no resistance at all. This new one however is as smooth or better and I all I've done is grease the bearings. It may take a while but Spyderco is listening and working on every little issue we forumites complain about.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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JonLeBlanc
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby JonLeBlanc » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:06 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:47 pm
JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:24 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:42 am
JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:59 am
That's interesting; are the circular marks in the recesses original machining marks? Also, what sort of compound did you use to smooth out your first piece? Did it take very long or much effort?

I only used a felt polishing wheel on the bearing races because I was afraid of removing too much metal. If you look close at the pics you can see that the bearings do a pretty good job of wearing their own groove and over time have gotten smoother than they were when new (this is a similar effect of the other issue where we saw dents in washers from bearings). On the tang area that I polished where the detent ball slides, I sanded that with fine sandpaper up to 3k and polished it with compound on a cotton wheel on a Dremel.

I used this pack of sandpaper, pretty cheap and had the grit selection I wanted.
120 To 3000 Assorted Grit... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZ6TG05?re ... b_ap_share
Oh ok, u know almost as soon as I posted that I was like "I wonder if maybe he used a dremel" and whaddya know lol. How did you use the sandpaper, just on your fingertip?
Also I'd just like to say that you're one of the Spyderlings from whom I've learned a lot, so I certainly did not mean to come across as untoward re bearings.

Thank you, I'm glad to help. I've learned practically everything knife related I know from this forum so I'm glad to give back where I can.

Sanding I use a combination of bare hands and wrapping the paper around something small and flat. I got a little carried away on my Caribbean and sanded a bit outside of what the handle covers so you can see scratches now. I've been using my Sharpmaker rods wrapped in paper to get a more controlled area of sanding. If you sand down the detent path it makes a big difference in how smooth the opening action is. A lot of that gritty feeling is from the detent ball riding along the machined surface of the tang. You can also sand down the sides of the blade where the washers sit, but you have to be careful to keep the blade "square" or it's very easy to ruin the action even if you do end up making it smoother.

All that aside, my original Sliverax is still ridiculously smooth even with those grooves in the tang where the bearings go. The blade swings literally with no resistance at all. This new one however is as smooth or better and I all I've done is grease the bearings. It may take a while but Spyderco is listening and working on every little issue we forumites complain about.
I see, yeah that would be a big concern, the danger of removing too much material. I wonder if maybe using a soft cloth with a high-ish grit diamond compound (~14 micron) would do the trick?
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

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Evil D
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:12 pm

JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:06 pm

I see, yeah that would be a big concern, the danger of removing too much material. I wonder if maybe using a soft cloth with a high-ish grit diamond compound (~14 micron) would do the trick?
You'll be fine using a Dremel polishing wheel and some compound, you shouldn't remove too much that way and it's way faster.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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JonLeBlanc
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby JonLeBlanc » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:43 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:12 pm
JonLeBlanc wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:06 pm

I see, yeah that would be a big concern, the danger of removing too much material. I wonder if maybe using a soft cloth with a high-ish grit diamond compound (~14 micron) would do the trick?
You'll be fine using a Dremel polishing wheel and some compound, you shouldn't remove too much that way and it's way faster.
Cool, my dad's got a Dremel
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
Wish list: Hundred Pacer; Sliverax; Mantra; 52100 PM2 SE; Kapara

pdptrow
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby pdptrow » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:34 am

Evil D,
You said you recieved the updated one from Paul. So my question is, with those different engineering changes how long before Spyderco is going to enact the CQI? Or did they already?

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Evil D
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Re: Sliverax bearing race CQI progression

Postby Evil D » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:52 am

pdptrow wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:34 am
Evil D,
You said you recieved the updated one from Paul. So my question is, with those different engineering changes how long before Spyderco is going to enact the CQI? Or did they already?

I believe Paul just has a batch that he bought himself so I would assume the changes are already implemented.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David


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