Let's discuss Nitrogen steels

[Doc Dan]

I am really interested in these nitrogen steels. Spyderco is now giving us BD1N, LC200N, and H1, but there are many more out there. I have experience with 14C28N, but some of the others I do not.

I wonder at the various edge retentions of these steels and the hardness levels needed to give them the best performance. How critical is the heat treat to corrosion resistance? Some of these steels seem to be completely corrosion proof and some are resistant. What factors cause that scenario? Is it carbon content, or something else. Perhaps not enough N to form nitrides? Are there any with edge retention bordering on S110V or ZDP-189?

These are interesting steels and it seems there are a lot of questions around them. Some of the stuff out there is factual, and some of it is the stuff you find lying around in a cow pasture.

[DutchBlades]

The only one I've got experience with thus far is Vanax 37. The edge retention was definitely on par with s90v.

[Larrin]

I wouldn’t really consider H1 as a nitrogen steel. But the 0.1% N steels in general are not that different than “non-nitrogen” steels. S90V and S110V have at least as much nitrogen as BD1N and 14C28N. I have articles on effects of heat treatment and composition on corrosion resistance. What questions do you have after reading them?

[Bloke]

Doc, what I know of metallurgy I could write on a piece of confetti with a 4” brush. :o

I’ve been playing with Vanax SC that good brother bluntcut (Luong) heat treated. From memory I think it’s around 61hrc. I had it sitting in saltwater for about two months without any staining or edge degradation. It’s very easy to sharpen to extreme levels and holds an edge about as well as S30V and I’d have to say it’s tougher. :)

[Doc Dan]

I wouldn’t really consider H1 as a nitrogen steel. But the 0.1% N steels in general are not that different than “non-nitrogen” steels. S90V and S110V have at least as much nitrogen as BD1N and 14C28N. I have articles on effects of heat treatment and composition on corrosion resistance. What questions do you have after reading them?

Lots of questions. For one thing, how does hardening...work or heat treat, affect these steels’ corrosion resistance and edge retention?

Maybe that’s two things.

[Larrin]

Lots of questions. For one thing, how does hardening...work or heat treat, affect these steels’ corrosion resistance and edge retention?

Maybe that’s two things.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/06/11/ ... stainless/

[dj moonbat]

I wouldn’t really consider H1 as a nitrogen steel. But the 0.1% N steels in general are not that different than “non-nitrogen” steels. S90V and S110V have at least as much nitrogen as BD1N and 14C28N. I have articles on effects of heat treatment and composition on corrosion resistance. What questions do you have after reading them?

Spyderco's steel chart doesn't list any nitrogen for either of those two. Is Crucible not in the habit of listing nitrogen content, or are you saying that somehow incidental nitrogen gets into the steel at a level comparable to BD1N or 14C28N without even being part of the recipe?

[emanuel]

Spyderco's steel chart doesn't list any nitrogen for either of those two. Is Crucible not in the habit of listing nitrogen content, or are you saying that somehow incidental nitrogen gets into the steel at a level comparable to BD1N or 14C28N without even being part of the recipe?

Good question, I'm curious if this is intentional or just atmosphere nitrogen absorption during the sintering process. I believe that it's a similar case as it was with S30V. Crucible didn't mention it in the official composition data sheets, but now they state it at being 0.10% N. So it might be the same for the other vanadium stainless steels from them. They just didn't bother changing the official stance on composition as the difference might be insignificant for their customers and the properties they advertise. Lets remember, knife industry isn't their main market, it's industrial tools.

[Larrin]

Crucible doesn't advertise the ntirogen content in their steel for some reason. Perhaps they don't see it as a point to be advertised. I think times have changed since those decisions were made.

[Doc Dan]

https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2088

I found this heady discussion. Some of it is beyond me (they need an English editor!), but most is understandable.

Here's an article:
https://www.magzter.com/news/209/416/05 ... c2bafe2f01

[Larrin]

I think my own article on nitrogen knife steels is more useful in this context: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/17/ ... fe-steels/

[Doc Dan]

I think my own article on nitrogen knife steels is more useful in this context: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/17/ ... fe-steels/

Yes, that was a good article and easier to get my head around.

You wrote : "I didn’t discuss H1 at all in this article. It is true that it has a small nitrogen addition (0.10%). However, the nitrogen addition is far from the most interesting thing about H1. It is a completely different type of steel than the others in this article and therefore it needs to be in its own article to describe how it was designed and how the steel works."

Is there such a discussion? Why is this steel so much different from the others, especially N680 and LC200N?

[Larrin]

The article on H1 is up on Patreon as of 10 minutes ago, and will be on my website Monday.

[TomAiello]

14c28n doesn't get enough respect. For a "budget" blade steel, it's really very good. I definitely feel like it's a real (not just marketing) upgrade from AEB-L.

[sal]

Thanx Larrin. Good stuff.

sal

[Evil D]

I can't help much in answering the technical questions, but LC200N is quickly becoming my favorite steel. The edge retention is plenty enough for my needs, it responds very well to sharpening and is rust proof so overall the knife is 99.9% maintenance free, just keep it sharp and keep the pivot lubed and enjoy.

[The Meat man]

The article on H1 is up on Patreon as of 10 minutes ago, and will be on my website Monday.

Great article as always. H-1 is really unusual stuff and there are a lot of claims about its properties. Thanks for introducing some clarity into the subject.

[Larrin]

Great article as always. H-1 is really unusual stuff and there are a lot of claims about its properties. Thanks for introducing some clarity into the subject.

Hopefully that’s what I have provided and not just more confusion. :)

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Larrin, in your educated and practical knowledge, do you think a good-selling knife that would gain alot of use for people on both land and sea, would be some "economy water knife", a folder that has a blade in the 3.5 inch range, made from a nitrogen steel like LC200N, with some form of FRN handle, and perhaps shackle slot in the blade, and/or other blades in addition to the main cutting blade?

[Doc Dan]

What is a Patreon and how do I access the article?