Heat Treatments any verification?

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Recently there has been allot of talk about heat treatment and how it changes the experience we get with a steel as a knife

Without any other measuring tool than use I have noticed differences in the same base steel from different manufacturers.

I have also noticed differences in the same manufacturers product line and some seems dependent on when they were manufactured as well.

For example I would love it if someone would take the recently released Native Chief and Rockwell test it in comparison to a Military or PM2 in S30V also.

I recently wore off the factory edge pretty swiftly on the Native Chief But was able to resharpen it much faster than other models in S30V just using the white stones at 30 degrees inclusive.

To me this indicates the steel in this knife had a lower heat treatment.

I have also found a similar response from the Benchmade Nestucca in S30V and have often read here Benchmade does not go as hard with S30V.

Would be great if we had someone here actually test the hardness of these knives to see what is going on.

Another steel to test would be M390 CTS 204P and 20CV

[VashHash]

I don't know about the heat treat but the chief seems to have a thinner grind and factory edge than other knives I've purchased recently. It's held a decent edge so far for me but it was very easy to touch up once it stopped shaving.

[Banter 247]

Poor performance on a factory edge is often indicative of damage during sharpening. Belt sharpening generates a lot of heat, and the thinner the grind (apex, secondary, shoulder— not stock thickness), the easier it is for damage to occur. Some compositions suffer less from the heat than others.

This is part of why guys doing edge retention tests often sharpen 1-4 times before the published test. They’re looking to remove enough material to get a better representation of the heat treat. If this is what is happening, you should see performance improvement through early sharpenings.

In my personal use, my goal is to remove as little material as possible, in order to keep the knife as close as possible to its best geometry. To that end, I usually give a knife a couple weeks on the factory edge to see how it goes. If it comes up chippy, or dulls quickly, I sharpen it. If not, I set my edge angle and strop from there out.

[Pelagic]

Lots of youtubers show HRC tests these days. Just keep in mind there is a decent amount of variation when it comes to production models.

[FK]

Was the posted HRc done in a metallurgy lab, clean room or in a dirty oily machine shop?

A single number hardness test is rather suspect for accuracy.

Regards,
FK

[ZrowsN1s]

Heat treat, steel, geometry, quality, functional design, aesthetics, fit and finish. All factors. Heat treat is just one of several factors that make a good knife. I love that we have a behind the edge database, and I love the hrc database. Are either of them 100% accurate? No. But they can give you a rough idea, a ballpark. But most importantly, as heated as these conversations can get, I'm glad we're having them. The more that people see that a knife is the sum of many important factors, the better we'll be, and the more productive our conversations.

[Stuart Ackerman]

I am an operations assistant in a tool steel supply business that does hardness testing as part of the process.
We HAVE to know that what we are heat treating, is at the requested hardness.

We always test at in least two places on a single item, and sometime up to six places.

That said, I would never expect to see Sal and Spyderco reveal the hardnesses that they are achieving in any product, as it is his intelectual property.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I am an operations assistant in a tool steel supply business that does hardness testing as part of the process.
We HAVE to know that what we are heat treating, is at the requested hardness.

We always test at in least two places on a single item, and sometime up to six places.

That said, I would never expect to see Sal and Spyderco reveal the hardnesses that they are achieving in any product, as it is his intelectual property.

Sal has always said Spyderco goes by the manufacturer recommendation.

Question is do the factories Spyderco employ consistently follow through.

I have read people write Spyderco is most consistent with heat treat of all none custom knife Makers. A bold statement but nothing to back it up.

So since you have the means ready to step up and do some tests for the community?

[Naperville]

I have invested in a lot of knives. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Spyderco is the #1 steel company on the planet and probably lead the way with hardness. Cold steel and ZT are probably #2 and #3. It's just my gut on ZT, but I'm willing to take a bet on Spyderco and Cold Steel.

You can see it in the performance of their knives.

[Tims]

We have a youtuber here on the forums who was testing and reporting HRC. I can’t for the life of me remember his name, I’m sure somebody else will though.

[shunsui]

We have a youtuber here on the forums who was testing and reporting HRC. I can’t for the life of me remember his name, I’m sure somebody else will though.

That might have been JLS ?

Here's some good info on Mule team HRC.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/mul ... on.929065/

And the timely M-390 mule:

JLS said: ↑

I finally ordered my M390 Mule last week and received it yesterday.
I brought it to work today, did a fresh cal on the hardness tester and got 60.9 and 61.2 HRC for the two samples. I think I'm going to like this one.

Wow 61.2 HRC. Wish I knew the plus/minus on the accuracy.

[BornIn1500]

So since you have the means ready to step up and do some tests for the community?

Using company equipment for personal tests is a good way to get fired :D

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

So since you have the means ready to step up and do some tests for the community?

Using company equipment for personal tests is a good way to get fired :D

Ahh too bad you are not in a different position, would not want you to endanger your job.

[curlyhairedboy]

IIRC when I tested my advocate the m4 was at 62.3