Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

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vivi
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#181

Post by vivi »

kennethsime wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:05 pm
vivi wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:03 am
I like to strip the ESEE's then soak them in vinegar for an hour or so. Gives them a better look, they cut better and the spine can spark a fire steel.
Question vivi. Do you pull the scales off and strip & soak the whole knife? Or just the blade?

Is the vinegar soak as good as, or nearly as good as the paint at keeping the knife from corroding?
With the ESEE's I remove the scales, strip the entire blade, then soak the entire blade.

After that is will rust a bit more easily. The painted on coatings generally prevent anything from reaching the blade surface. Once stripped you expose the blade to the elements.

It won't rust as easily as bare 1095, but you'll still want to make sure its dry and clean before storing it long term.

I'm doing the Chief tonight and modding the scales while the blade soaks. I'm going to photograph the entire process and post a little tutorial.
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Wartstein
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#182

Post by Wartstein »

kobold wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:41 pm
Ongoing impression..

I have L sized hands, and I think the Chief is not only a goldielocks zone knife, but also one of those designs that are hard to improve, but easy to degrade.

A great choice for when the Police and Millie are too big. Its handle provides enough leverage and is comfy enough for gloved hands, but also fits the naked hand in normal use.

- The blade size - or the edge length to be precise - and its shape is more usable than the Native 5/Para 3 type stocky blades. While I like and prefer forward finger choils, I always miss the lost edge on models such as the PM2, the Manix and smaller knives. With the Chief I am finally getting that missing edge back. The edge is equal to the one on the Caribbean and even surpasses some choil-less models like the Swayback or the GB2. A bigger and more comfortable forward finger choil than the one on the PM2 or even on the Military and a long enough cutting edge in the same knife means not only I can have my cake and eat it too, but that the cake is more tasty as well.

- Further, no hump / no ramp means not only ergonomic bonus, but also improved carriability.
- Great lock. hm. Let me rephrase: Best lock.
- The weight is pretty optimal - the G10 version is nearly as light as the one in carbon fiber.
- Last, but not least, the phosphor bronze washers are like a dream, even before polishing.

Perfectly put, especially the highlighted portions.

I totally like my Manixes, but I carry them as SMALL knives with two great grip optionsm that have their limitations though due to the short edge.
An universal, general EDC knife for me just has to have at least Endura (or Chief) edge length - Vivis example of "still almost too small to cut an apple with one cut" shows perfectly well why.
The Endura offers what I am looking for in an FRN, no choil version (and I personally really like to choke up on its Ricasso), the Chief in G10 and WITH a choil (which I might really like too. As you said: As long as there is a good amount of edge left, a choil can be really nice to have).

And, no secret: For me too nothing can beat a good backlock, especially on a universal, all purpose, large folder for the in- and outdoors.

And that they did NOT give the Chief thicker stock than the smaller Native 5 is a great move in my book.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#183

Post by kobold »

Thanks, I think the other mentioned attributes contribute to the success of this knife equally. The action would be bad (mediocre at best) without phosphor bronze washers. In lightweight FRN Natives the jerkiness and stiffness makes operation not just less enjoyable, but plain harder. I regularly have to relocate my thumb from the spydiehole to the spine of the blade in a failed attempt to close the blade. Since the action is that stiff. It is stiff, because FRN direct contact with steel is just not a winning combination. There is a reason PB washers exist, they are cheap, there is no good reason not to use them everywhere.

And then the ergonomics - they would be in a lesser league with a hump. Because the predestined jimped area is not always the optimal spot for our thumb, when we extend our thumb past the hump by overarching it, the resulting air gap under the 'arch' means the loss of contact area. The loss of contact area means less tactile feedback and and also less area to maintain pressure on the blade, resulting in less control.

The hump/ramp is also elevated above the spine of the blade and this will introduce lability, just like how high heels feel unstable relative to walking barefoot.

So, yeah, I like this knife a lot. I even made an attempt to buy the S90V version, but, what I assume is the only copy in the country had bad blade play and I had to let it go. Since after more than a month that knife is still not sold, I am thinking about making them an offer and taking my chances with a torx bit. :rolleyes:
Military/PM2/P3 Native Chief/Native GB2 DF2 PITS Chaparral Tasman Salt 2 SE Caribbean Sheepfoot SE SpydieChef Swayback Manix2 Sage 1 SSS Stretch 2 XL G10
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kennethsime
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#184

Post by kennethsime »

vivi wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:16 pm
With the ESEE's I remove the scales, strip the entire blade, then soak the entire blade.

After that is will rust a bit more easily. The painted on coatings generally prevent anything from reaching the blade surface. Once stripped you expose the blade to the elements.

It won't rust as easily as bare 1095, but you'll still want to make sure its dry and clean before storing it long term.

I'm doing the Chief tonight and modding the scales while the blade soaks. I'm going to photograph the entire process and post a little tutorial.
Perfect, that's what I wanted to hear. Dry & clean is no problem. I don't generally run into corrosion issues even with my tool steel folders, but my only experience with 1095 is a KABAR with a paint coating. I like ESEEs a lot, and have a couple on my list to try -hopefully this summer.

Excited to see how the chief turns out!
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#185

Post by Naperville »

Just received my Rex45 Native Chief, now I have two. I may try to collect them all.
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vivi
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#186

Post by vivi »

Loc-tite aside, I really enjoyed working on my Chief. It's very easy to take down and put back together compared to the Manix XL's I worked with last.

Image

PS check out that date stamp :cool: :D
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#187

Post by James Y »

I really like the fact that the NC’s handle is G10, and without liners.

Jim
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#188

Post by Nate »

Recieved my first Chief about a week ago. Initial impressions of the ergos and aesthetics are very positive. Especially high marks for easy of carry given it’s a relatively large folder, (for reference I typically carry an Urban iwb these days,) rides in a front pocket comfortably and I can still easily get a hand in and out to reach keys/wallet/whatever. Minor issue with some grittiness in the pivot that developed after a few days, but it went away after flushing with warm, soapy water and applying some Tuf-Glide. Will likely knock down the edges on the g10 a bit with some sandpaper in the near future.

Starting tomorrow I’ll hit the trail for a few days and the Chief will be my primary folder, looking forward to the trip!

Image
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#189

Post by u.w. »

vivi :) ,
That's pretty high on the list of epic date stamps :cool:

Nate,
Seeing the little turtle on that map brings to mind that trail that's on my list "to do". I've seen photos and videos of the area and it's looks outstanding. I am looking forward to my time on trail there at some point.

u.w.
vivi
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#190

Post by vivi »

Nate wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:17 am
Recieved my first Chief about a week ago. Initial impressions of the ergos and aesthetics are very positive. Especially high marks for easy of carry given it’s a relatively large folder, (for reference I typically carry an Urban iwb these days,) rides in a front pocket comfortably and I can still easily get a hand in and out to reach keys/wallet/whatever. Minor issue with some grittiness in the pivot that developed after a few days, but it went away after flushing with warm, soapy water and applying some Tuf-Glide. Will likely knock down the edges on the g10 a bit with some sandpaper in the near future.

Starting tomorrow I’ll hit the trail for a few days and the Chief will be my primary folder, looking forward to the trip!

Image
The Chief carries so well for the size. I was always impressed with the Military and Police in this respect, but the Chief is head and shoulders above them in carry comfort.

I should receive my S30V Chief any day now.

Red River Gorge? Looks like a beautiful area if so.
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#191

Post by Nate »

vivi wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:52 pm

The Chief carries so well for the size. I was always impressed with the Military and Police in this respect, but the Chief is head and shoulders above them in carry comfort.

I should receive my S30V Chief any day now.

Red River Gorge? Looks like a beautiful area if so.

You nailed it, amazing area. Like a lot of things it has changed a lot since I was a child. There’s been a lot of development in the area and it’s become way more popular, but so far a reasonable balance has been maintained. As U.W. mentioned the Sheltowee Trace runs through the area as well.

And yeah, my primary comparisons in ease of carry are the Military and Pac Salt, the Chief wins handily.
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Wartstein
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#192

Post by Wartstein »

Nate wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:10 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:52 pm

....

And yeah, my primary comparisons in ease of carry are the Military and Pac Salt, the Chief wins handily.

Over the PAC SALT?! Really?
(Honest question, since I never even held a Chief. But I´d assume that the Pac Salt should carry even better: A bit shorter, more rounded handle, lighter... but, right, it is probably a bit WIDER in the pocket (not a concern of mine though - (too much) length in pocket is).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#193

Post by Nate »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:57 am

Over the PAC SALT?! Really?
(Honest question, since I never even held a Chief. But I´d assume that the Pac Salt should carry even better: A bit shorter, more rounded handle, lighter... but, right, it is probably a bit WIDER in the pocket (not a concern of mine though - (too much) length in pocket is).

You’re right, that was somewhat poorly/lazily worded. My points of large folder comparison are the Millie and the Pac Salt. It beats the Military handily for ease of carry. The Pac Salt is more nuanced.

As an initial impression I’ll likely favor the Chief and carry/use it more than either. For front pocket jeans carry, the extra thickness of the Chief combined with its slimness and the curve at the butt-end of the handle allow me to more comfortably get my hand in and out of the pocket. Not massively better I guess, but again I was really impressed by how well the Chief carries. For iwb carry in shorts/swim trunks, the Pac Salt is still a no brainer being thinner and lighter (not to mention if I need the corrosion resistance or want teeth).

Since you mention length, the Chief does occasionally ride up a little bit after sitting and standing, but so far only by a centimeter or so, not enough that I’ve had any concern about it coming out of my pocket. This week will be a better test while hiking, wearing lightweight pants and shorts, etc.
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#194

Post by kobold »

Can't ask for much more in a knife. :)
Image
Military/PM2/P3 Native Chief/Native GB2 DF2 PITS Chaparral Tasman Salt 2 SE Caribbean Sheepfoot SE SpydieChef Swayback Manix2 Sage 1 SSS Stretch 2 XL G10
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#195

Post by Nemo3000 »

vivi wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:47 pm
Loc-tite aside, I really enjoyed working on my Chief. It's very easy to take down and put back together compared to the Manix XL's I worked with last.

Image

PS check out that date stamp :cool: :D
Great pic and the engineering is neat.
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#196

Post by Wartstein »

kobold wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:21 am
Can't ask for much more in a knife. :)

...perhaps just for FRN, if one is like me... ;) (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89313)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#197

Post by kobold »

Wartstein wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:59 am
kobold wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:21 am
Can't ask for much more in a knife. :)

...perhaps just for FRN, if one is like me... ;) (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89313)

Haha, and my post from the same thread. :)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89313&start=20#p1510718

Like I said, can"t and won't ask for much more, only different steels. Although I think Rex45 is a pretty good match, which will be hard to beat. Plus I also have the one in S90V, so the most amazing development would be to do a full SE version next. Dark green G10 with DLC. Serrated DLC looks so cool. Then do an AEB-L or something like that.
Only after that would I be more open to some crazy deviance such as an FRN scale. :D
But even, then I wouldn't buy an FRN without PB washers. I find it annoying already in the shorter Native. In the Chief it would be worse. The smoothness of the action really suffers.

I actually bought a 0,3 mm thick sheet of phosphor bronze (from Conrad) and I will try to make my own washers to retrofit all my present and future FRN Natives. Which I still buy, begrudgingly, because of all the cool steels they have. :rolleyes:
Military/PM2/P3 Native Chief/Native GB2 DF2 PITS Chaparral Tasman Salt 2 SE Caribbean Sheepfoot SE SpydieChef Swayback Manix2 Sage 1 SSS Stretch 2 XL G10
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#198

Post by Matus »

I got the Rex 45 version a few weeks back as my ‘workshop knife’. I love the build quality and smoothness. I had just recently put it through a short but tough task of cutting (more like shaving) hard plastic sheets somewhere on our car and actually had to grab the handle with both hands to put enough power down - the knife had zero issues. I actually told myself at that moment ... “I would not want to be doing this with the Para 3 LW”

I must admit though that at many utility tasks it feels a bit too clunky because of the lenght. I would not mind a shorter version, though not as short as the Native 5. I guess I need to give the G10 Manix a closer look, pity that the Rex 45 or Cruwear are so hard to find. The flat-ish profile of the blade on the Chief works great for me.
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#199

Post by Karl_H »

Matus wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:24 pm
I must admit though that at many utility tasks it feels a bit too clunky because of the lenght. I would not mind a shorter version, though not as short as the Native 5. I guess I need to give the G10 Manix a closer look, pity that the Rex 45 or Cruwear are so hard to find. The flat-ish profile of the blade on the Chief works great for me.
Yeah. I also feel the handle on the Chief is a bit too long and the blade on the Native 5 is a bit too short. In an ideal world, I would like to see the best parts of the Chief and Spydiechef combined into one knife. I like the choiless design of Spydiechef and the blade of the Native Chief.

I am looking forward to seeing what Sal does with the Choiless Shaman design.
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Re: Native Chief first and ongoing impressions thread

#200

Post by Karl_H »

Matus wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:24 pm
I must admit though that at many utility tasks it feels a bit too clunky because of the lenght. I would not mind a shorter version, though not as short as the Native 5. I guess I need to give the G10 Manix a closer look, pity that the Rex 45 or Cruwear are so hard to find. The flat-ish profile of the blade on the Chief works great for me.
Yeah. I also feel the handle on the Chief is a bit too long and the blade on the Native 5 is a bit too short. In an ideal world, I would like to see the best parts of the Chief and Spydiechef combined into one knife. I like the choiless design of Spydiechef and the blade of the Native Chief.

I am looking forward to seeing what Sal does with the Choiless Shaman design. Right now, I think the Ikuchi and SpydieChef offer the best combination of features in the size range between the Native 5 and Chief.
Last edited by Karl_H on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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