Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:38 pm

James Y wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:12 pm
SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:29 pm
...any sort of defense and fighting is a high stress or super stress activity. Why is this? Can you and others please explain to me why self defense and fighting (and you are right, it does appear to be that way) have to be such high stress activities? Why couldn't they be an "easy thing" for human beings? What are the core fundamental reasons for this, as far as our physical bodies and other areas go?
It's fight or flight and adrenaline dump. If some random stranger or strangers come up to you and suddenly start attacking you with or without weapons, pounding on you full-bore and with evil intent. Even if you're not caught totally off guard, you will experience stress like never before, unless maybe you've had tons of experience. And even then, it will happen to some degree. Any techniques or skills you may have only practiced under stress-free conditions, especially if they require complex muscle memory, will not only fail, you probably won't even recall them at the moment. It can be hard for someone who has never experienced this to really understand. I've heard some martial arts people who've never been attacked say, "If somebody ever tries this, I'll just do this; and if he tries to counter like this, I'll counter his counter like this." But in reality, only things that are "simply effective" and fully ingrained seem to work most consistently. I would think that also applies to anything related to knife defense.

But I've gone too far OT here.

Jim

*edited to clarify a point.
I've worked security professionally for nearly a decade. Even dealing with your run of the mill self righteous no-i'm-not-tresspassing drunk lady will get my adrenaline going, much less situations that required responding with physical force against multiple large males. Things happen much differently in these situations. Your heart rate increases, your field of visual perception narrows, your ability to feel physical pain diminishes, etc.

Two things that will serve anyone reading this thread better than buying X knife: Buy a good pair of running shoes and use them every week, and join a local boxing/mma/muay thai gym and spar people. Eveyone has a plan until they're punched in the face. Then your training (or lack of it) kicks in. What have you trained to do?

I'm not ashamed to say that I've run nearly every time I've had a weapon pulled on me. That includes bats, knives, brass knuckles, etc. There has only been one situation where someone pulled a weapon and I had to stay on the property and defend my coworkers, and I managed to de-escelatw the situation until the cops came and apprehended him. That's another overlooked skill.

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby sal » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:45 pm

well said.

sal

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby Liquid Cobra » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:00 pm

Thanks Vivi. Seems like good advice.
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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby James Y » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:05 am

Vivi wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:38 pm
James Y wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:12 pm
SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:29 pm
...any sort of defense and fighting is a high stress or super stress activity. Why is this? Can you and others please explain to me why self defense and fighting (and you are right, it does appear to be that way) have to be such high stress activities? Why couldn't they be an "easy thing" for human beings? What are the core fundamental reasons for this, as far as our physical bodies and other areas go?
It's fight or flight and adrenaline dump. If some random stranger or strangers come up to you and suddenly start attacking you with or without weapons, pounding on you full-bore and with evil intent. Even if you're not caught totally off guard, you will experience stress like never before, unless maybe you've had tons of experience. And even then, it will happen to some degree. Any techniques or skills you may have only practiced under stress-free conditions, especially if they require complex muscle memory, will not only fail, you probably won't even recall them at the moment. It can be hard for someone who has never experienced this to really understand. I've heard some martial arts people who've never been attacked say, "If somebody ever tries this, I'll just do this; and if he tries to counter like this, I'll counter his counter like this." But in reality, only things that are "simply effective" and fully ingrained seem to work most consistently. I would think that also applies to anything related to knife defense.

But I've gone too far OT here.

Jim

*edited to clarify a point.
I've worked security professionally for nearly a decade. Even dealing with your run of the mill self righteous no-i'm-not-tresspassing drunk lady will get my adrenaline going, much less situations that required responding with physical force against multiple large males. Things happen much differently in these situations. Your heart rate increases, your field of visual perception narrows, your ability to feel physical pain diminishes, etc.

Two things that will serve anyone reading this thread better than buying X knife: Buy a good pair of running shoes and use them every week, and join a local boxing/mma/muay thai gym and spar people. Eveyone has a plan until they're punched in the face. Then your training (or lack of it) kicks in. What have you trained to do?

I'm not ashamed to say that I've run nearly every time I've had a weapon pulled on me. That includes bats, knives, brass knuckles, etc. There has only been one situation where someone pulled a weapon and I had to stay on the property and defend my coworkers, and I managed to de-escelatw the situation until the cops came and apprehended him. That's another overlooked skill.
Good advice, Vivi.

As far as martial arts training goes, I'd say whatever trains you in a realistic manner. Nowadays, MMA/Muay Thai/BJJ, etc., is the most common, but back when I started MA training in the '70s those things weren't around. Luckily, our training was very rough and tumble (no "kiddie karate"), and also included sparring with pro boxers and kickboxers. It also included multiple attacker training, such as 2-on-1, 3-on-1, etc, as well as scenario-based training. Such training later saved my life during an abduction attempt in Taiwan. Unfortunately, I don't know how many martial arts schools today still train like that. Maybe some Krav Maga?

If one chooses to train MMA, be aware that it's still a sport, and like any other MA training, has its own set of blind spots (areas that are not addressed). In my general area alone, I know of 3 combat athletes (one former collegiate wrestling champion and two of which were known to train MMA) who got killed because they thought they could handle anything, let their testosterone get the better of them, and got into situations they shouldn't have, and could have easily avoided in the first place. In such cases, it doesn't matter what "style(s)" one practices.

One's age and/or general health may also affect one's choices, too. These things might not be suitable options for every person who is interested in self-defense.

Again, just my .02 worth.

Jim

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby twinboysdad » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:54 pm

Small knife? I once saw John Wick kill three men in a bar with a pencil...

What could you do to make yourself more like John Wick?

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:05 pm

twinboysdad wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:54 pm
Small knife? I once saw John Wick kill three men in a bar with a pencil...

What could you do to make yourself more like John Wick?
:D
It's funny but there's a grain of truth there. In reading comments about using a small knife, or a knife with a choil, or something that folds.... imagine what you could do with found objects in a room if your life was in danger. A rock, a pencil, an ashtray? What would JW do right ;) Now tell me you'd find a small sharp folder completely useless. Pretty sure I saw MJ throw a spatula into a block of wood in a video :D Anything is a weapon with the right intent.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby Woodpuppy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:10 pm

What’s Michael Jordan doing throwing innocent spatulas at equally innocent blocks of wood?
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:13 pm

Woodpuppy wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:10 pm
What’s Michael Jordan doing throwing innocent spatulas at equally innocent blocks of wood?
Jordan does what he wants man. Just try and stop him.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby elena86 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:12 am

Nobody talks about it but Dodo would be a fantastic small SD folder. Second close is Dragonhawk IMO.
Marius

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby spyderwolf » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:38 am

C99c wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:52 pm
spyderwolf wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:52 am
The Pacific Salt is wondefull for summer,but without years of training you shouldn't even dream of using a knife for sd.
Humans have been stabbing each other with sharp objects since they first discovered sharp objects. Obviously training makes one more prepared, but people with zero training protect themselves all the time with knives. It doesn't make the news often because it doesn't fit the agenda. The old "no one wins a knife fight" or "you WILL get cut if you use a knife for SD" B.S. is just that, B.S..

Craig Douglas describes his preferred method as A monkey with a screwdriver. It's that simply. The legal and other ramifications of using a knife is where it gets complicated, but it's not all doom and gloom and hopelessness as often told on the internet.
A knife is probably the worse choice for sd.A news paper or a jacket are much better tools because you can wrap them around the attacker's head.If you pull out a knife,someone will end up not cut,but dead.How many of us are ready for that,even is sd?I'm not talking about legalities or morals,but about stabbing with full force and intent another human being.This is way the monkey has the upper hand-she doesn't have any inhibitions about using that screwdriver-like a drunk or a drugged person.
Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby jdw » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:59 am

I still either want the smallest knife possible so that I can bravely run away or if it's beyond that I want a gun. Forget the rest.
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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby youmakemehole » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:30 am

Image

technology has come a long way and now you have these taser rings that are powerful, easy to retain, and also very small, ergonomic, and concealable. I'd like anyone to try and argue how any small folding knife is superior to something like this when when it comes to protecting yourself (not injuring other people).
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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby SF Native » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:55 am

twinboysdad wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:54 pm
Small knife? I once saw John Wick kill three men in a bar with a pencil...

What could you do to make yourself more like John Wick?
I’m hoping he kills 4 with a baliyo in John wick 4.

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby ZrowsN1s » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:46 pm

elena86 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:12 am
Nobody talks about it but Dodo would be a fantastic small SD folder. Second close is Dragonhawk IMO.
With it's full sized handle it would. Lil Temp and karahawk too.
youmakemehole wrote: Image

technology has come a long way and now you have these taser rings that are powerful, easy to retain, and also very small, ergonomic, and concealable. I'd like anyone to try and argue how any small folding knife is superior to something like this when when it comes to protecting yourself (not injuring other people).
Tasers do not always work for a variety of reasons. Clothing can defeat a taser. I've seen plenty of videos where tasers/pepper spray/pain compliance tools didn't work because the person was under the influence of drugs, mentally deranged, or full of adrenaline.

With proper training a small knife can be used to target an attackers mobility. Physically disabling them. It doesn't matter if they can't feel the pain or don't care, if they can't raise their arm or make a fist they can't hit you with it, or hold a weapon. If they can't use their leg they can't chase after you. Also it's probably legal to carry small knives in more places than stun rings. Knives can be clipped to the pocket for easy access, knives also double as useful tools..... etc.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby James Y » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:56 pm

spyderwolf wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:38 am
C99c wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:52 pm
spyderwolf wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:52 am
The Pacific Salt is wondefull for summer,but without years of training you shouldn't even dream of using a knife for sd.
Humans have been stabbing each other with sharp objects since they first discovered sharp objects. Obviously training makes one more prepared, but people with zero training protect themselves all the time with knives. It doesn't make the news often because it doesn't fit the agenda. The old "no one wins a knife fight" or "you WILL get cut if you use a knife for SD" B.S. is just that, B.S..

Craig Douglas describes his preferred method as A monkey with a screwdriver. It's that simply. The legal and other ramifications of using a knife is where it gets complicated, but it's not all doom and gloom and hopelessness as often told on the internet.
A knife is probably the worse choice for sd.A news paper or a jacket are much better tools because you can wrap them around the attacker's head.If you pull out a knife,someone will end up not cut,but dead.How many of us are ready for that,even is sd?I'm not talking about legalities or morals,but about stabbing with full force and intent another human being.This is way the monkey has the upper hand-she doesn't have any inhibitions about using that screwdriver-like a drunk or a drugged person.
I don't know about that. It always depends on the situation. Several years ago I saw a news report about a female who was home alone during a home invasion. The man tried to rape her, and she defended herself with a knife, killing him. Surprisingly, they showed a photo of the knife, and it was a cheap Gerber liner lock with a blade slightly over 3". But regardless of the weapon, for her it was effective and saved her life. They also showed a photo of her, and from first appearances, she did not look like a fit hand to hand combat expert, but an overweight middle-aged woman. I highly doubt a jacket or a rolled-up newspaper would have been anywhere near as effective, and most likely would only have enraged her attacker. IIRC, the woman was not charged and it was deemed SD.

There really are no superior or inferior weapons, only whatever you have and whatever is going to be effective in X-situation. None of us knows how we would act or react in a given situation unless or until it happens. The same with a gun, a club, or one's empty hands. There are instances of people with firearms, blunt instruments or bare hands who have frozen during actual defensive situations. It doesn't have to be a knife.

BTW, I'm neither condemning or condoning knives for SD,

Jim

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby Doc Dan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:59 pm

I knew a guy who would come into our sporting goods store and shock himself with a 100k+ stun gun and show no effects. I also knew an old auto mechanic would would put his finger in the spark plug cable without effect, and then grab us boys as we walked by. Hahaha! Not everyone reacts in the same way to tasers and stun guns.

Like Vivi said, the best is to run away, as fast as you can. Fairbairn said the same thing. He said if the bad guy has a knife, run away, no matter how good you are at self defence.
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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby James Y » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:31 pm

Doc Dan wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:59 pm
I knew a guy who would come into our sporting goods store and shock himself with a 100k+ stun gun and show no effects. I also knew an old auto mechanic would would put his finger in the spark plug cable without effect, and then grab us boys as we walked by. Hahaha! Not everyone reacts in the same way to tasers and stun guns.

Like Vivi said, the best is to run away, as fast as you can. Fairbairn said the same thing. He said if the bad guy has a knife, run away, no matter how good you are at self defence.
Doc Dan,

I agree on that. I knew a guy against whom pepper spray had zero effect. He could spray himself in the face, and for him it was like splashing plain water in his face. He would just smile and lick his lips.

Some people can take a full-force punch to the nose or the jaw and will keep right on coming forward. Pain doesn't affect everyone in the same way. People have been fatally shot and due to adrenaline or drugs, kept on functioning like normal for a decent amount of time.

I always point out, though, that running, while the second-best option (after avoiding a situation altogether), is not always a practical option for every person. Such as many elderly individuals or people with chronic injuries, or some disability that affects mobility in some way. Or what happens if a person is with his/her spouse and/or kids, or elderly parent, and is caught in a situation and can't just run and leave them behind? The people you may be with can really affect your mobility as well, which is rarely considered in these types of discussions. When discussing SD, most people picture or assume the defender to be a single, young, reasonably fit person (usually male). Running away is a vital ability (if you can do it). You should also have other options as well, for if for some reason you can't run, or your attacker is younger, fitter and/or quicker than you are, or there are multiple attackers that you can't outrun. Some young and middle-aged criminals are actually quite athletic.

Jim

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby Doc Dan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:47 pm

Yes, you are right about people thinking of self defense being fit. But, one day they will get old or disabled and they will come to a new understanding. A good walking stick and the training to use it has helped a lot of elderly people. Some programs like Cane Fu seem to help.

I have also been impressed with the ARK training where you can convince someone to get off of you very easily with a lot less fuss and coordination with some of the moves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f50iSHjStJU
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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby spyderwolf » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:08 am

James Y wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:56 pm
spyderwolf wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:38 am
C99c wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:52 pm
spyderwolf wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:52 am
The Pacific Salt is wondefull for summer,but without years of training you shouldn't even dream of using a knife for sd.
Humans have been stabbing each other with sharp objects since they first discovered sharp objects. Obviously training makes one more prepared, but people with zero training protect themselves all the time with knives. It doesn't make the news often because it doesn't fit the agenda. The old "no one wins a knife fight" or "you WILL get cut if you use a knife for SD" B.S. is just that, B.S..

Craig Douglas describes his preferred method as A monkey with a screwdriver. It's that simply. The legal and other ramifications of using a knife is where it gets complicated, but it's not all doom and gloom and hopelessness as often told on the internet.
A knife is probably the worse choice for sd.A news paper or a jacket are much better tools because you can wrap them around the attacker's head.If you pull out a knife,someone will end up not cut,but dead.How many of us are ready for that,even is sd?I'm not talking about legalities or morals,but about stabbing with full force and intent another human being.This is way the monkey has the upper hand-she doesn't have any inhibitions about using that screwdriver-like a drunk or a drugged person.
I don't know about that. It always depends on the situation. Several years ago I saw a news report about a female who was home alone during a home invasion. The man tried to rape her, and she defended herself with a knife, killing him. Surprisingly, they showed a photo of the knife, and it was a cheap Gerber liner lock with a blade slightly over 3". But regardless of the weapon, for her it was effective and saved her life. They also showed a photo of her, and from first appearances, she did not look like a fit hand to hand combat expert, but an overweight middle-aged woman. I highly doubt a jacket or a rolled-up newspaper would have been anywhere near as effective, and most likely would only have enraged her attacker. IIRC, the woman was not charged and it was deemed SD.

There really are no superior or inferior weapons, only whatever you have and whatever is going to be effective in X-situation. None of us knows how we would act or react in a given situation unless or until it happens. The same with a gun, a club, or one's empty hands. There are instances of people with firearms, blunt instruments or bare hands who have frozen during actual defensive situations. It doesn't have to be a knife.

BTW, I'm neither condemning or condoning knives for SD,

Jim
My point exactly.If you fight for you life,and you are willing to kill your attacker,a knife is a great choice.
Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.

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Re: Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

Postby C99c » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:06 pm

....


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