Spyderco Small Knife For Self Defense?

[Knife1]

Dear Knife1:

I also received your e-mail regarding this question, but thought I'd answer here to contribute to the discussion.

Years ago, I used to do my "Pork Man" demo with a Cricket to show the cutting power of a small blade. While the Reverse S did a great job of demonstrating how devastating a small blade can be, the other design attributes of a Cricket make it less than ideal for self-defense. Specifically, it's difficult to draw and open quickly and doesn't offer a full grip that allows cutting leverage and the management of impact shock when you cut with power.

The smallest knife that offers a four-fingered grip and reasonable opening speed is the Dragonfly. The soon-to-be-released Dragonfly with Emerson Opener would be an even better choice. The only down side is the lack of a trainer. That's why the Delica 4 Lightweight is still one of my favorites. If necessary, it can be "snubbied" to meet extreme blade-length limitations, yet there is still a trainer to allow you to do the skill training that is really needed if you're going to rely on any knife for self-defense.

A small knife can definitely be a viable weapon, but only if it is wielded with skill. That skill doesn't have to be extreme, but it does have to be the result of actual training. If you're not actually going to train in the use of a weapon (any weapon), don't carry it.

And, yes, awareness, avoidance, deescalation, and boundary setting--all the "soft skills" of self-defense, should all be applied before any physical skills. If you're not going to do any physical training, be extra aware and vigilant, as those skills become your only defense.

Stay safe,

Mike

Hi Mr. Janich,
Thanks so much for your reply. I was actually considering the Dragonfly prior to my post but because the Cricket has a reverse S blade I thought that perhaps for a self defense application it was superior to the Dragonfly. I'll take a look at the Dragonfly, thanks for the suggestion.
Just to entertain a hypothetical, hypothetically speaking between the Cricket and the Ladybug assuming that you can somehow get an equally good grip on both of these knives will the Cricket because of it's reverse S blade prove significantly superior to the Ladybug or will both prpvide the same cutting power and ability?

[James Y]

I'm not a knife fighting expert, but I would imagine that under stress a Cricket would not be the easiest to deploy, or to maintain a solid grip on it, which IMO has less to do with its size than with its ergonomics. Some people might be able to, but if you've ever had to fight for your life (not some schoolyard tussle, but actually fight an attacker or attackers for your very survival), you might have discovered that the stress/adrenaline tends to mess up your fine motor skills. I've been in such a situation, though luckily it did not involve weapons.

Like I mentioned in my other post, *proper* training indeed helps. Whatever training one does needs to be pressure tested. If the only training or practice one does is under relaxed, stress-free conditions, it probably won't hold up under the type of extremely stressful, violent, and often chaotic situation that would require deploying and using a knife on another person.

Just my .02.

Jim

[Knife1]

Hi Mike and thanks so much for your reply.
I was looking at the Dragonfly and I see that there is a new version coming out with a wharncliffe blade, but no Emerson wave opener. I was watching your video where you mention that for the Yojimbo you chose a wharncliffe blade because it offers superior cutting power because of the angles of the body vs a regular curved blade. So I'm wondering, will the new wharncliffe Dragonfly provide superior cutting power over the regular shaoed Dragonfly blade? And what if in the future a reverse S Dragonfly is released, will this provide even more cutting power over the wharncliffe? And finally, are hawkbills a good option or would you rank them towards the bottom of blade shapes for SD?

Thanks so much!

[C99c]

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[spyderwolf]

The Pacific Salt is wondefull for summer,but without years of training you shouldn't even dream of using a knife for sd.

[Doc Dan]

A small fixed blade is always nice, like the ARK or a Cold Steel Super Edge because of the loss of motor function during high stress. But, I really dislike carrying a neck knife and some sheaths are hard to draw the knife from in the pocket.

I think Spyderco should make a small, light, pocket sized fixed blade, designed for the pocket, about the size of the Candiru, but with thinner stock behind the edge.



This is like the one I carry in my pocket sometimes.

[youmakemehole]

Isnt small sd knife a bit of an oxymroron? I wouldnt want anything less than one of these

► Show Spoiler

both in terms of lock strength and size.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

The Pacific Salt is wondefull for summer,but without years of training you shouldn't even dream of using a knife for sd.

What if all you have on you is a Spyderco Pacific Salt with serrated-edge or a Spyderco Byrd Cara Cara 2 and you need to defend yourself from a violent attacker who wants to either injure or kill and the knife owner does not have years of training?

Obviously one should try to flee if possible and escape but if you do not know if you can flee fast enough, is it best to defense-strike the attacker and hope for the best?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Two more questions while we are on this topic:

1 As you pointed out above, C99c, any sort of defense and fighting is a high stress or super stress activity. Why is this? Can you and others please explain to me why self defense and fighting (and you are right, it does appear to be that way) have to be such high stress activities? Why couldn't they be an "easy thing" for human beings? What are the core fundamental reasons for this, as far as our physical bodies and other areas go?

2 What do you all think of the Spyderco Endura Emerson Wave and Spyderco Byrd Cara Cara 2 with Emerson Wave Opener for use as a "Small self defense knife" go?

[youmakemehole]

Two more questions while we are on this topic:

1 As you pointed out above, C99c, any sort of defense and fighting is a high stress or super stress activity. Why is this? Can you and others please explain to me why self defense and fighting (and you are right, it does appear to be that way) have to be such high stress activities? Why couldn't they be an "easy thing" for human beings? What are the core fundamental reasons for this, as far as our physical bodies and other areas go?

2 What do you all think of the Spyderco Endura Emerson Wave and Spyderco Byrd Cara Cara 2 with Emerson Wave Opener for use as a "Small self defense knife" go?

1. Your life is at stake, and when your life is endangered your brain will create stress as its how its been programmed.

2. Hopefully you've already explored every other better alternative option for situations where you may need to defend yourself and put as much thought into them as you have this one, which should really be the very last option when all others have failed. In this case I would say if it must be small but still deadly you will want a claw/hook shaped knife like a Civilian or Karahawk, those will inflict far more damage than any straight bladed plain edge knife. If you look at nature, animals, which always have the most efficient designs, almost always have that shape for claws or talons when if they are carnivorous predators who need to hunt and kill for food. Trailing tip blades are good too if they are durable enough, such as the Chinook, the Chinnok is actually an excellent one because it has a backlock and very thick sturdy construction overall. If you need something even smaller, which honestly if you do you really should just not pull out a knife at all, you have claw shaped blades on the Tasman, Manbug/Ladybug, and Lil Matriarch.

[C99c]

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[C99c]

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[James Y]

...any sort of defense and fighting is a high stress or super stress activity. Why is this? Can you and others please explain to me why self defense and fighting (and you are right, it does appear to be that way) have to be such high stress activities? Why couldn't they be an "easy thing" for human beings? What are the core fundamental reasons for this, as far as our physical bodies and other areas go?

It's fight or flight and adrenaline dump. If some random stranger or strangers come up to you and suddenly start attacking you with or without weapons, pounding on you full-bore and with evil intent. Even if you're not caught totally off guard, you will experience stress like never before, unless maybe you've had tons of experience. And even then, it will happen to some degree. Any techniques or skills you may have only practiced under stress-free conditions, especially if they require complex muscle memory, will not only fail, you probably won't even recall them at the moment. It can be hard for someone who has never experienced this to really understand. I've heard some martial arts people who've never been attacked say, "If somebody ever tries this, I'll just do this; and if he tries to counter like this, I'll counter his counter like this." But in reality, only things that are "simply effective" and fully ingrained seem to work most consistently. I would think that also applies to anything related to knife defense.

But I've gone too far OT here.

Jim

*edited to clarify a point.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you for explaining that for me.

[GiftedMisfit]

I can say that I've had to 'fight' for my.life. I didn't fight a person though, it was more a 'mind of matter'situation. Put my arm through a window about 10 years ago. Severed 4 tendons and the radial? Artery and the nerves to half of my right hand. Doctor told me I was lucky I didnt faint. Instead adrenaline just took over and I ended up having to take out my front door, call the ambulance. Everything seems like a blur in the moment, I just remember being at the hospital and being exhausted. Plus I lost a lot of blood.

Sorry for going so off topic, just a story of adrenaline and how it takes over. I think trying to fight off a human or human attackers would be incredibly stressful. Luckily I've run alot of track in my day lol.

[Doc Dan]

One problem is that if you mess up your knife draw you may not even realize it, and then have to stop and figure out what is wrong, correct it, then get back to business, if you are attacked suddenly. This is the idea behind the ARK because it takes less dexterity to get a small fixed blade into action. Even highly trained people (but to a lesser degree) are going to experience this. I have seen a very proficient pistol shooter fail to get his safety off in a tournament and try to squeeze that trigger as if to break it before he realized his error. It happens. I have seen hunters do this, too, when surprised by game. Imagine for a moment you life is in danger. How will you react? The least you have to do, the simpler the task, the better off you will be. (This is the reason I choose the knives, batons, and guns that I do.) A small folder is somewhat difficult in any circumstance and more so under duress. Keep it simple and easy.

[C99c]

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[Woodpuppy]

Seems like the swick would shine here, carried just to the size of the belt buckle. But it would be a distant third.

1. Ike and Mike
2. Sig P365 or similar
3. Any knife as a get off me tool, preferably a small fixed or an auto. Something with a grip designed to keep my hand off the blade.

Beat a retreat is the best plan; use of deadly force may save you but that’s only the beginning of entanglement with the “justice” system.

[ZrowsN1s]

From standing still, try drawing your knife as quick as you can while simultaneously backing away as fast as you can (make sure to not run into anything :D ). If you can do that, you're on the right track. Practicing a draw while standing still isn't very useful, try it while moving around.

[vivi]

One thing that surprised me reading through this thread, are all the suggestions for choil based knives. I would find it very uncomfortable doing heavy defensive slashes with something I'm forced to grip with an index choil for a full grip.

I can't imagine going somewhere that I feel I need to carry a knife for self defense and thinking a kahr delica is too big. I don't carry knives for defensive purposes but I do EDC them all summer long in shorts. Pacific Salt carries great IWB even in swim trunks.

If I were going to carry a knife for defense it would be a fixed blade 10/10 times. Imagine having to draw your hand gun then unfold it before you can pull the trigger. You're putting yourself at a massive disadvantadge going with a folder IMO. Just like folks that carry without one in the chamber put themselves at a massive disadvantadge.

If you are going to go with a folder, I would only look at waved models.

I see a lot of folks converted to Delica and Endura Emerson models. A lot.
The same with Shivworks Clinch picks. Their is nothing simpler in my opinion than the Clinch pick.

I'd love to see a colaboration between Spyderco, Craig Douglas and Bantang. A Spyderco Pick, if you will.

What about the Reverse?