A plea to Spyderco:

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Baron Mind
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A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Baron Mind » Fri May 31, 2019 2:09 pm

I know this has been discussed many times before, but I feel compelled to pitch it again.

For my own personal benefit, but also for what I think would be a shrewd business move, I implore you Spyderco, start grinding your blades thinner behind the edge.

Cementing Spyderco's place in the market as the foremost performance based US knife company is a win on every level. I think the public's desire for overbuilt hard use folders is fading, and ZT and Benchmade probably have that market cornered anyway.

With the popularity and proliferation of YouTube, high end production knife buyers are more informed than ever, and YouTube influencers are speaking about blade geometry and cutting performance more than ever. I'm watching these ideas spread to all the channels in real time, and I believe things like BTE thickness are starting to have a significant impact on peoples purchasing decisions. Once word got out that Spyderco started manufacturing all their knives at 10 to 15 thousandths of an inch BTE, I'd predict a healthy spike in sales, and a very positive, long lasting boost to the Spyderco brand.

There are many things that make Spyderco unique, ergonomics, spyderhole, compression lock, etc., but further distinguishing themselves as the producer of the highest performance cutting tools on the market is where they want to be, at least in my estimation.

Thanks for reading!

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blues
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby blues » Fri May 31, 2019 3:18 pm

Spyderco, imho, already produces high performance knives. What they probably don't want to do is throw the baby out with the bathwater by trying to placate the very small percentage of our community that "may" be dissatisfied with the edges as produced, and invite issues and complaints about chipping (etc) from the vast majority of users who are not interested or inclined to see how far they can push the steel.

They're already selling out many of their models before they can meet demand...do you really think that their business model will be enhanced by catering to the smallest segment of their customer base?

(This is in no way to say that I wouldn't personally enjoy high(er) performance blades tuned right from the factory.)

Just the opinion of one (loyal) customer.
- No FOMO -

Mackinne
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Mackinne » Fri May 31, 2019 3:20 pm

I agree with blues' logic. Nothing is perfect and there can always be improvement, but the logistics of it just don't make enough sense to pursue at this time.

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The Mastiff
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby The Mastiff » Fri May 31, 2019 3:42 pm

I've seen too many " I paid XXX dollars for this knife and it chipped while doing ..." to think it's a great idea. Then we hear how the inexpensive china import knife he used to have for $9 seemed to have no trouble with the same job.

I think they do pretty good. I've always reprofiled every knife I've had eventually and I'm quite willing to keep doing it if I need to. I've had a bunch that I didn't need to in the last few years .

Joe

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Wartstein
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Wartstein » Fri May 31, 2019 3:53 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 3:42 pm
I've seen too many " I paid XXX dollars for this knife and it chipped while doing ..." to think it's a great idea. Then we hear how the inexpensive china import knife he used to have for $9 seemed to have no trouble with the same job.
Reminds me a bit of the thin-bladestock-thing: Since I got my Chap LW, I am even more convinced that 2mm bladestock would fit many more models very well. The Chaps thin blade is an amazing performer, even in harder tasks, and tougher than I would have thought.

Still, if you do crazy you-tube-hard-use tests, 2mm will always break sooner than 3mm (given the steel is the same) and that probably would be bad for Spydercos reputation overall. (Which is sad, since a Chap XL still would be one of my dream folders... ;) )

So that´s a bit like the "thinner behind the edge"-thing. As a rather big company in the knife world, Spyderco naturally has to keep in mind that quite a few customers will use a knife in ways they shouldn´t, and if something breaks just blame it on Spyderco generally.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Marulaghost » Fri May 31, 2019 3:57 pm

I prefer the balance between reliability and performance.
Whenever i worried that my chap would break I'd grab the lil native

BornIn1500
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby BornIn1500 » Fri May 31, 2019 4:07 pm

Baron Mind wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:09 pm
I think the public's desire for overbuilt hard use folders is fading

I think people have this perception because social media and forums are overwhelmed with the connoisseurs who want the thin edges. The people who want hard use knives simply go out and do their job, beat on their knife/tools, then stay quiet. In reality, the knife guys on social media are a very small percentage of users.

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Wartstein
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Wartstein » Fri May 31, 2019 4:20 pm

BornIn1500 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:07 pm
Baron Mind wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:09 pm
I think the public's desire for overbuilt hard use folders is fading

I think people have this perception because social media and forums are overwhelmed with the connoisseurs who want the thin edges. The people who want hard use knives simply go out and do their job, beat on their knife/tools, then stay quiet. In reality, the knife guys on social media are a very small percentage of users.
Imho that may be true for thin EDGES (which sure is the topic of this thread), but not for (quite) thin bladestock (which is ot admittedly... ;) )
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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steelcity16
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby steelcity16 » Fri May 31, 2019 4:29 pm

The Mastiff wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 3:42 pm
I've seen too many " I paid XXX dollars for this knife and it chipped while doing ..." to think it's a great idea. Then we hear how the inexpensive china import knife he used to have for $9 seemed to have no trouble with the same job.

I think they do pretty good. I've always reprofiled every knife I've had eventually and I'm quite willing to keep doing it if I need to. I've had a bunch that I didn't need to in the last few years .

Joe

+1 Keep the re-profilers in business if you want it thinner. They do great work from what I have seen and read. I don't need laser slicers so I keep them as they are, but if I desired a re-profile I would send it off. Spydies are great for the vast majority of users the way they are.
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby The Meat man » Fri May 31, 2019 4:37 pm

How can Spyderco cater to their performance-obsessed aficionados and offer super thin grinds without compromising the integrity of their product line as a whole? Simple!

viewtopic.php?t=79799

This is a great idea and garnered overwhelming support. I'd love to see this happen!
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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Evil D
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Evil D » Fri May 31, 2019 5:53 pm

I think they already do thinner than most, just not with every model. The Mantra for example is pretty dang thin for a production edge.
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jpm2
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby jpm2 » Fri May 31, 2019 6:07 pm

I think they have it just about right for the broad market.
If you want it thinner, easy DIY fix.

I can say with confidence a 1" tall, full flat zero ground edge in any steel, any reasonable spine thickness, with any heat treat is fragile to me, either from rolling, chipping, or both.. I've had/have a few.

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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Extra330SC » Fri May 31, 2019 7:16 pm

BornIn1500 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:07 pm
Baron Mind wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:09 pm
I think the public's desire for overbuilt hard use folders is fading

I think people have this perception because social media and forums are overwhelmed with the connoisseurs who want the thin edges. The people who want hard use knives simply go out and do their job, beat on their knife/tools, then stay quiet. In reality, the knife guys on social media are a very small percentage of users.
Great post that is short and on point! Only thing I would add after watching a few (not all) of the so called "YouTube influencers" .....most of what they are saying is BS or fluff, Causing drama for no reason! Ridiculous statements at odds with the laws of physics, Like stating a Strider will slice basic material, As good as a Chaparral :rolleyes:

At the end of the day, THEY believe they're pushing the boundaries for the entire knife community by enlightening people on HT, Blade geometry, Steel composition, And proper applications. Most of the conclusions are fundamentally wrong because so much bias is subconsciously including. Sharing between channels to validate the flawed conclusions only makes it worse. Good entertainment though..... :D

James

I take interest in what the Knife designers and makers post on this forum. I also try to find channels like BBB on YouTube, Who's ACTUALLY making knives and experimenting with different steels/designs in person. He's the first person to say the performance of a particular steel in the CUSTOM world, Is very different then what a production company like Spyderco can produce on a mass scale!

Baron Mind
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Baron Mind » Fri May 31, 2019 7:33 pm

I don't think it's true that a knife 15 thou bte will chip easily. It definitely won't chip during regular use. Maybe when you get to the lower limits, like 4 thou bte, you have to start being cognizant of it, but even still, neroknives has a video of his 4 thou bte regrind spydiechef zipping through zipties with ease. Unless your chopping with your folder, 15 thou will not chip any easier than 25 thou. Striders are marketed as hard use knives, they're 15 thou bte, no widespread stories of easy chipping.

In actuality, bte thickness has very little to do with chipping. Very low edge angles should make you more prone to chipping, but bte thickness would matter more in preventing catastrophic failure when chopping or batoning.

I also don't know that it is the better business model to cater to the masses rather than to enthusiasts. The average knife user out there on the jobsite most likely isn't packing a 130$ pm2, hes got some Gerber that he picked up at Lowe's while he was there getting his lumber one day. The guys buying 10+ knives a year, the knife guys, that's your customer in this price range. Collectors will buy the knives no matter how the cut, they're collecting not cutting. The knife enthusiast is the segment buying a lot of knives, and being presented with more choices than ever. CIVIVI's last three Elijah Isham designs released this year, the Anthropos, the Pleithoros, and the McKenna, are all around 10 thousandths bte. I haven't heard anyone complaining about the edges chipping to bits, only how well they cut.

Again, I think the idea of a world full of tradesmen, all romping around beating the snot out of their $200 folders is more a marketing idea than reality. I think if one of those guys do decide to pick one up, I'd rather try to get them to recommend my knife because of how well they cut, not they're indestructibility.

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jpm2
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby jpm2 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:59 pm

BTE depends on edge angle and type, primary grind angle and type, spine thickness, and if there's a distal taper... so bte is a vague term at best.

I'm a tradesman of 40 years, and so called beat the snot out of my folders on almost a daily basis. In those 40 years, I've decided what works best for me, in what most here would consider abusive use.

The very best cutting knives due to geometry, are also the most fragile. There are some steels, with good heat treats (geometry equal) that hold up better than others.

My suggestion is, get one that's ergonomically suited to most tasks you encounter(including blade length), a suitable blade shape, a good steel, good heat treat, adequate spine thickness (for me it's no more than .100"). If it has ****** geometry, do as I do and make it right.

There is no knife made exactly the way I need, but some are close. Those are the ones I acquire and change.
Find a knife that's close, and make it what you need.

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steelcity16
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby steelcity16 » Fri May 31, 2019 9:08 pm

jpm2 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:59 pm

I'm a tradesman of 40 years, and so called beat the snot out of my folders on almost a daily basis. In those 40 years, I've decided what works best for me, in what most here would consider abusive use.

What are your top 5 Spyderco knives (unmodified) for this use?? I am very interested as this is basically what I use my knives for. So essentially which ones would you have no fear beating the snot of doing contractor type work. Favorite steels? Favorite models?
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

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jpm2
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby jpm2 » Fri May 31, 2019 9:36 pm

steelcity16 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:08 pm
jpm2 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:59 pm
I'm a tradesman of 40 years, and so called beat the snot out of my folders on almost a daily basis. In those 40 years, I've decided what works best for me, in what most here would consider abusive use.
What are your top 5 Spyderco knives (unmodified) for this use?? I am very interested as this is basically what I use my knives for. So essentially which ones would you have no fear beating the snot of doing contractor type work. Favorite steels? Favorite models?
Absolutely no fear? m4.
Rex45 is rapidly advancing, as is k390, but neither of those steels come in my preferred knives.
hap40 gets honorable mention.
For a stainless, s30v, but behind the others.
As for models, native5 and sage 1 or 5. I wish sage came in my preferred steels.
I'm modifying a rex45 para3, but not sure I can get the handle to my liking.

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steelcity16
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby steelcity16 » Fri May 31, 2019 9:41 pm

jpm2 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:36 pm
steelcity16 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:08 pm
jpm2 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:59 pm
I'm a tradesman of 40 years, and so called beat the snot out of my folders on almost a daily basis. In those 40 years, I've decided what works best for me, in what most here would consider abusive use.
What are your top 5 Spyderco knives (unmodified) for this use?? I am very interested as this is basically what I use my knives for. So essentially which ones would you have no fear beating the snot of doing contractor type work. Favorite steels? Favorite models?
Absolutely no fear? m4.
Rex45 is rapidly advancing, as is k390, but neither of those steels come in my preferred knives.
hap40 gets honorable mention.
For a stainless, s30v, but behind the others.
As for models, native5 and sage 1 or 5. I wish sage came in my preferred steels.
I'm modifying a rex45 para3, but not sure I can get the handle to my liking.

Good to know! I have the BHQ DLC M4 Native, and I would consider that my hard use knife as well. Have you used CRUWEAR or 4V yet?

You say S30V as well for stainless. Have you compared that to S35VN, CTS-XHP, or M390/20CV/CTS-204P yet? Those typically score a bit higher than S30V in the toughness category.
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

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jpm2
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby jpm2 » Fri May 31, 2019 10:34 pm

steelcity16 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:41 pm
jpm2 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:36 pm
steelcity16 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:08 pm
jpm2 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:59 pm
I'm a tradesman of 40 years, and so called beat the snot out of my folders on almost a daily basis. In those 40 years, I've decided what works best for me, in what most here would consider abusive use.
What are your top 5 Spyderco knives (unmodified) for this use?? I am very interested as this is basically what I use my knives for. So essentially which ones would you have no fear beating the snot of doing contractor type work. Favorite steels? Favorite models?
Absolutely no fear? m4.
Rex45 is rapidly advancing, as is k390, but neither of those steels come in my preferred knives.
hap40 gets honorable mention.
For a stainless, s30v, but behind the others.
As for models, native5 and sage 1 or 5. I wish sage came in my preferred steels.
I'm modifying a rex45 para3, but not sure I can get the handle to my liking.
Good to know! I have the BHQ DLC M4 Native, and I would consider that my hard use knife as well. Have you used CRUWEAR or 4V yet?

You say S30V as well for stainless. Have you compared that to S35VN, CTS-XHP, or M390/20CV/CTS-204P yet? Those typically score a bit higher than S30V in the toughness category.
I should mention that I've modified both the native and sage, can't stand the guppy grip bellies, they had to go. I rarely use my knives with the hammer grip and am constantly shifting my grip, and always with my hand as close to the blade as possible for maximum control, especially for precise delicate cuts. I like neutral grips that don't bunch up my fingers when changing positions.
I've also lowered the spines, tall blades get in the way in tight spaces and making circular cuts.

I should say that the delica grip is pretty decent as is for me, which is good since there's practically no room for modification. Hap40 is ok at work, a little soft and more prone to rolling the edge that I like, would be better if done more like rex45. zdp is ok around the house, but a little fragile for my work use.

I have a 4v mule and it has fared well, but not suited as a work knife for me, so can't compare it apples to apples in hardest use at work.
No experience with CTS-XHP, M390/20CV/CTS-204P. From what I've read (drops to the floor breaks, chips, rolls, etc) they would be disappointing as work blade. I beat both benchmade and Spyderco s30v and not experienced the chipping/cracking/breakage/rolling reported with those steels.

The only cruwear I have is a custom zwear blade at 62.5 hrc. It's great in the kitchen, and the women fight over it. But in the field, it's a little too fragile for my liking. I've chipped it and broke the tip. I would like to try it at 60-61 as I've heard that's the sweet spot, but not real optimistic concerning any steel at that hardness for my use.

The only s35vn I have is a native SE, so can't compare it exactly, but from what I can tell, very close to s30v.

It's possible any and all these steels with the right heat treat would be suitable for my work, but I have many knives in m4 and all of them are better than the steels listed above I have experience with. Same with rex45, k390, m2, m3, m35, t42 production/custom/home made.

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Outlaw Pete
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Re: A plea to Spyderco:

Postby Outlaw Pete » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:21 am

I’ve always thought that Spyderco Knives have excellent edge geometry.
Most of the other big brands do have thick edges and serrations that don’t align properly with the straight edge.
Don’t change a thing Sal👍


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