Endela-thread

[Reject]

Then Sir. :D I must politely disagree with you.

It has been said many times on this forum, that a knife begins with its edge. Everything after that is created to make that edge work efficiently.

Blade length can be determined by many things. It could be local laws, EDC requirements (to fit in the coin pocket, back pocket, front pocket or over the shoulder.) in some cases the blade length is determined by length already chosen for the handle.

When it comes to work knives, I would suggest that it begins with the edge, the blade length chosen and a handle that makes all that work. In a work knife that means having a handle that you can get your whole hand on, with no pinkies hanging off the end.

The Endura was the first of the family and it has all that you need in a folding knife, but it can be a little big to carry around some times. So then came the Delica; it worked well, but it will never grow up to match the Endura. It was a compromise; and perhaps a bit small, :) but it is one of the best sellers they have.

In the Military family the Para Military was the compromise in size. By the PM2 :cool: for me it was the perfect work knife and in that the PM2 stopped being a compromise.

I could wrong; :o but I think the Para Military had a lot of influence on the design of the Endela.
In a work knife, I think obsession over blade/ handle ratio are totally irrelevant.

Start with the edge, blade length is determined by what every factors come in to play. If the handle is long enough to cover the blade length; then that is where their relationship ends.

Edge, purpose, handle designed for both.
As simple and as complex as that.

For your fancy knives obsess over blade/ handle ratio all you want; :mad: but leave the work knives alone.

:o I think that’s the last glass of port I will drink tonight.

[Wartstein]

Then Sir. :D I must politely disagree with you.

It has been said many times on this forum, that a knife begins with its edge. Everything after that is created to make that edge work efficiently.

Blade length can be determined by many things. It could be local laws, EDC requirements (to fit in the coin pocket, back pocket, front pocket or over the shoulder.) in some cases the blade length is determined by length already chosen for the handle.

When it comes to work knives, I would suggest that it begins with the edge, the blade length chosen and a handle that makes all that work. In a work knife that means having a handle that you can get your whole hand on, with no pinkies hanging off the end.

The Endura was the first of the family and it has all that you need in a folding knife, but it can be a little big to carry around some times. So then came the Delica; it worked well, but it will never grow up to match the Endura. It was a compromise; and perhaps a bit small, :) but it is one of the best sellers they have.

In the Military family the Para Military was the compromise in size. By the PM2 :cool: for me it was the perfect work knife and in that the PM2 stopped being a compromise.

I could wrong; :o but I think the Para Military had a lot of influence on the design of the Endela.
In a work knife, I think obsession over blade/ handle ratio are totally irrelevant.

Start with the edge, blade length is determined by what every factors come in to play. If the handle is long enough to cover the blade length; then that is where their relationship ends.

Edge, purpose, handle designed for both.
As simple and as complex as that.

For your fancy knives obsess over blade/ handle ratio all you want; :mad: but leave the work knives alone.

:o I think that’s the last glass of port I will drink tonight.

Thanks for your reply and thoughts.

But: I am probably one of the least persons wanting a "fancy knife", but what I want IS exactly an all purpose, no nonsense work knife.. and the Endela is a great one, but exactly in the versatile work knife capacity it would be even better with just a bit more edge (still much less than the Endura). Its already perfect handle would offer more than enough space for that....
Just my two cents of course, and what I want in a non-fancy work knife personally.

Again: I totally love my Endela SE as it is already. 3mm more edge would make it perfect for me.

[Jazz]

I don’t agree. A longer handle gives better grip. More secure. Just feels more balanced and controllable. Fixed blades with handles way shorter than their blades are awkward, except for chopping, in my opinion. To each his own, I guess. We’re all different, which is good.

[Wartstein]

I don’t agree. A longer handle gives better grip. More secure. Just feels more balanced and controllable. Fixed blades with handles way shorter than their blades are awkward, except for chopping, in my opinion. To each his own, I guess. We’re all different, which is good.

Maybe I did not make my point clear:

I personally don't want a shorter HANDLE at all, the Endela handle is absolutely perfect for my handsize and for a real working knife!

I just want the BLADE to be a bit longer particularly in the Endela, cause my perfect and most versatile work knife should have a 3.5" blade and not shorter. The Endela handle could easily accomodate that length (and not only 3.41").
IF it had that longer blade, both blade and handle would still be noticeable shorter than in the Endura, in fact with a 3.5" blade the Endela would proportionally really be a perfect shorter Endura-version.

But I agree: It's good, that we're all different! :)
And: The Endela is great as it is, a real keeper, and ALMOST perfect.

[Woodpuppy]

One of the things I like about Spyderco is that even with small blades I get a useful handle. So many are worried about proportionality of the blade to the handle; but regardless of blade length I want to be able to hold onto it. Para3 is a prime example, and apparently so is the Endela, where some might see the ratio as disproportionate, but I prefer the proportions.

[James Y]

One of the things I like about Spyderco is that even with small blades I get a useful handle. So many are worried about proportionality of the blade to the handle; but regardless of blade length I want to be able to hold onto it. Para3 is a prime example, and apparently so is the Endela, where some might see the ratio as disproportionate, but I prefer the proportions.

Well said. I've long wondered why so many people obsess about blade-to-handle proportions. With smaller folders, the handle must, by necessity, be proportionally larger than the blade to give a grip. Now, with a knife like the Police, the proportions between blade and handle can be closer. Yet I don't mind that even the Military's handle is still proportionally larger than the blade.

I'm looking forward to getting an Endela.

Jim

[Wartstein]

Well said. I've long wondered why so many people obsess about blade-to-handle proportions. With smaller folders, the handle must, by necessity, be proportionally larger than the blade to give a grip. Now, with a knife like the Police, the proportions between blade and handle can be closer. Yet I don't mind that even the Military's handle is still proportionally larger than the blade.

I'm looking forward to getting an Endela.

Jim

One of the things I like about Spyderco is that even with small blades I get a useful handle. So many are worried about proportionality of the blade to the handle; but regardless of blade length I want to be able to hold onto it. Para3 is a prime example, and apparently so is the Endela, where some might see the ratio as disproportionate, but I prefer the proportions.

Guys, of course you're right in that it makes no sense to be "obsessed about blade to handle proportions", regardless of the actual functionality of a knife!

But that's NOT exactly my (anyway minor) issue with the Endela.
Just for ME personally in my general working knives a blade of at least 3.5" is more versatile than a shorter one, REGARDLESS of the blade to handle ratio.
The Endela for me is an almost perfect working knife with an 100% perfect handle size. And again, just for me it would be even better with a longer blade (3.5 instead of 3.4), and the handle would offer more than enough space for that inside.
That's all.
And I'd really recommend to everyone: Get an Endela, its great, and clearly my number three folder, very close after Endura 4 and Stretch 1.

What I still think is: Lengthening the blade from 3.4 to 3.5 would be a benefit for people who like longer blades, while people who don't care for that would not even notice the bit more of edge.

[Wartstein]

One of the things I like about Spyderco is that even with small blades I get a useful handle. So many are worried about proportionality of the blade to the handle; but regardless of blade length I want to be able to hold onto it. Para3 is a prime example, and apparently so is the Endela, where some might see the ratio as disproportionate, but I prefer the proportions.

Interesting discussion!! For me Para 3 and Endela are actually totally different examples handlewise:

The Para 3 has actually a quite long absolute handle length, but it's design with choil and "hook" at the end makes it almost impossible to get even ONE good (four finger) grip on the handle. One has to choke up for that.

The Endela on the other hand offers at least TWO very good four finger grip positions on the actual handle, has a lot more grip area on the handle than even a Millie, plus one can easily and comfortably choke up on the Ricasso.. makes at least three good positions on a handle shorter than let's say the PM2 handle...

Guess, which design I prefer?

[Jazz]

I think you should chop an Endura’s blade down to 3.5.

[sal]

Thanx much for all of the very detailed and thoughtful input on the design. It helps me understand your thought.

sal

[Wartstein]

I think you should chop an Endura’s blade down to 3.5.

"Jazz", no offense, but to be honest: I am not sure if you're kidding/ trolling me, just don't WANT to understand, or my English is not good enough to make my point...?? :confused: :

I've said (quite clearly and several times I guess):.

- the Endela has a 100% perfect handle and handle length for me
- Just for me and my use a general, versatile working knife should have at least a blade of 3.5" (but even longer is no disadvantage at all)
- The Endela would have enough space in the handle for a blade longer than its current 3.4"

So why on earth on the other hand should I want an ENDURA with a shortened blade??? The Endura is perfect with its 3.8 blade and makes good use of the space inside the handle. The closed knife is a bit long in carry though, that's where I prefer the ENDELA.

I've also stated that the Endura (together with the Stretch 1) is my most liked folder of all times, just as it is.
So I really don't get your suggestion to "chop down the blade"...

[Wartstein]

Thanx much for all of the very detailed and thoughtful input on the design. It helps me understand your thought.

sal

Sal, let me say once more: The Endela is a great design and really was missing in Spydercos line up. It just feels perfect in hand and has - for me - the best looks of all the "Endura family" - knives. I also really like the blade shape, offering enough belly.

It's one of the few folders that just somehow "connected" with me, the first time I got it in hands. I knew right away that this was a keeper.

Concerning my blade length discussion:

I think, people who really want a general, versatile, good for most thinkable knife-tasks EDC folder (and not a for some tasks specialized knife, which is fine either of course) plus are actually real, down to earth knife users, will always see the benefits of a longer blade.
If one knows how to use a knife, a longer blade has some clear advantages over a shorter one, while tasks that do not demand a long blade can nevertheless be done by a longer blade as easily, safe and comfortable as with a shorter one. On the exact same handle, no real knife user will be bothered by a 5mm longer blade when doing small tasks, but benefit from it in "bigger" tasks. Or even just when cutting up a water melon or loaf of bread.

So generally I am a fan of making good use of the available space inside the handle, but it is really my only, very minor issue with the Endela that its blade could be a bit longer.

[Tims]

Give me as much steel as you can safely stuff in a handle. Other than legal issues, I can’t see a good reason not to.

[Jazz]

I’m not kidding. I chopped an Endura myself. It just sounds like you really like the Endela, but don’t. I know exactly what you’re wishing for. A little more blade in the handle that’ll fit it. I’ve never felt that way with the Delica, and it’s the same way.

Sorry if I upset you. I’ll just shut up and try out my Endela.

[Wartstein]

I’m not kidding. I chopped an Endura myself. It just sounds like you really like the Endela, but don’t. I know exactly what you’re wishing for. A little more blade in the handle that’ll fit it. I’ve never felt that way with the Delica, and it’s the same way.

Sorry if I upset you. I’ll just shut up and try out my Endela.

Thanks for your kind reply, and no worries, I am not upset! :)

I know, that it can be quite time consuming to follow a whole thread or even only a discussion happening inside a thread, but in fact I constantly praise the Endela in this thread and in several others (for example the "What Spyderco is in your pocket...), I think it is a GREAT knife and everybody should try it. On a pro-vs-con list there´d only be PRO`S for me and just one single small con. So I stated literally at the beginning of the current discussion in this thread (quote): "The only thing I'd change in the Endela: Give it 3 mm more blade length. There is more than enough space left for that in the handle when the knife is closed, and the blade would still not be longer than 3.5" (which is probably the legal limit in some places). Now it is 3.41".

Some reactions on that I found to be a bit strange (but interesting at the same time!), to be honest, and so I discussed those further:

For me the "whole idea of the Endela" just is NOT only "that it´s a shorter blade", but a shorter version of the Endura OVERALL. So, SURE a shorter blade EITHER (this HAS to be so anyway due to the shorter handle), but proportionally like on the Endura (which has a much more handle filling blade).

And I just can´t see why a knife featuring a blade long enough that it almost fills the handle (when closed), should look "off balance". Sure that´s personal preference, but for me the Endela looks admittedly perfectly balanced when opened, but not so much when closed and I see the gap between tip and end of the handle.

The weirdest thing for me (though a totally ok opinion, don´t get me wrong!) is: "For your fancy knives obsess over blade/ handle ratio all you want; :mad: but leave the work knives alone."
Once more: I think every serious and skilled knife user will NOT be bothered by a 3mm longer blade in any task, but on the other hand feel its benefits when actually needed. In a general (so not specialised for specific tasks!) work knife, ready for any task the day might bring, carried by someone who really uses the knife, it can´t be a bad idea to give it about the blade length that the handle offers space for inside.
Sure I am thinking here also of peoole who maybe only own ONE single EDC folder. More blade - more versatility, not doubt for me.

"We" (= probably almost every forum member ) of course have knives of various blade length to choose from... :D

Thanks for the discussion again! Hope you´ll get an Endela soon, and will share your impressions. For me personally and my preferences it is the best folder (of all brands) that came out in the last years. I´d even choose it over the Stretch 2 (not the Stretch 1 though), and that´s saying something...

[Doc Dan]

I actually like more handle related to the blade and handle ratio. When the reasons why I do like the Enduro’s because I have a lots of room for my big mitts. Like the Delica for the same reason and I don’t like knives from companies like bench made which make good knives because the handles are too short. The Endela As a handle that looks about right for size as far as I Cantel. Once I get one I’ll know but I’m waiting on all of you to be guinea pigs ha ha Ha ha ha.

Not to D rail our discussion but if the Endela Were a salt knife I would’ve already gotten one. As it is I already have a Mannix in this size so I will wait a little bit until I get some others that I absolutely must have.

[Reject]

I am hoping the Endela sells really well, :D so we can get a heap of new variations.

The perfect EDC is personal choice sort of thing. For me the PM2 was so close but the Endela even is closer to that perfection for me.

The Endela will do it all for me, big and small tasks. But some times a smaller is better, especially around knife shy people. So my light weight combo is going to be Endela, a light weight Chaparral and a Dragonfly.

The Dragonfly is just dropped in to the pocket as a backup, :rolleyes: incase I get behind in keeping the other 2 razor sharp.

I am hoping it gets to the point where there are Endela s in H-1 or :o (still my beating heart) LC200N.
Or even an Endela like the Endura and Delia Below.

[Wartstein]

I actually like more handle related to the blade and handle ratio. When the reasons why I do like the Enduro’s because I have a lots of room for my big mitts. Like the Delica for the same reason and I don’t like knives from companies like bench made which make good knives because the handles are too short. The Endela As a handle that looks about right for size as far as I Cantel. Once I get one I’ll know but I’m waiting on all of you to be guinea pigs ha ha Ha ha ha.

Not to D rail our discussion but if the Endela Were a salt knife I would’ve already gotten one. As it is I already have a Mannix in this size so I will wait a little bit until I get some others that I absolutely must have.

Doc, please DO derail the Endela blade length discussion, I think it has exhausted itself anyway. Which is really MY fault for the most part, I've been quite lengthy and did repeat myself too much in my posts...

Anyway, I think you're totally right in that a long enough, comfortable handle is even more important than a long blade. Nevertheless, other then to stay within certain legal limits, for me there is very seldom a reason not to make use of the available space inside a certain handle when it comes to bladelength in an universal, all purpose EDC folder.

I´d strongly recommend that you get an Endela in your hands! Sure it is a lot like the Manix lightweight just in its specs, virtually similar closed length, weigth, blade length. Backlock vs CBBL of course, both great, the former just very slightly better. The Endela offers more edge though (3mm), which may seem not much, but for me actually IS in that particular size category.

What else makes the Endela better or at least different for me than than the Manix?: Slimmer carry, and the handle. The Endela handle is just perfect for me, just like the Enduras, but slightly even-more-comfortable due to the smoothed out points between the finger placements. Also it has exactly the perfect length for me, while the Endura handle is a bit longer than I´d need (which is of course necessary to accomodate the blade and no downside in use, but a bit in carry).
The Manix handle (when not choked up) offers just ONE perfectly ergonomic grip (which is not a bad thing in itself of course), while the Endela /Endura handle offers more space to find several good positions, PLUS the opportunity to choke up on the Ricasso.

But then for me there is something not really rationally explainable about the Endela. It just "connects" with me, looks perfectly balanced and proportioned(though strictly functionally speaking the blade could be a bit longer) , a bit sturdier than Endura and Delica. It´s a knife I look at and instantly want to use it. Great design!

[Wartstein]

I am hoping the Endela sells really well, :D so we can get a heap of new variations.

The perfect EDC is personal choice sort of thing. For me the PM2 was so close but the Endela even is closer to that perfection for me.

The Endela will do it all for me, big and small tasks. But some times a smaller is better, especially around knife shy people. So my light weight combo is going to be Endela, a light weight Chaparral and a Dragonfly.

The Dragonfly is just dropped in to the pocket as a backup, :rolleyes: incase I get behind in keeping the other 2 razor sharp.

I am hoping it gets to the point where there are Endela s in H-1 or :o (still my beating heart) LC200N.
Or even an Endela like the Endura and Delia Below.

That´s true. Shorter blades DO scare non knife people less... as do bright blue or green handles, so I hope for color options on the Endela. I am fine with black on the SE I have, but the PE I´ll get eventually for sure I´d like to have a blue handle...

And yes, for me either the Endela is the "better PM2" (and I like the PM2!). Virtually same edge length, but slimmer and lighter in the pocket, more grip options, for me better lock, thinner blade stock and sturdier tip. I think especially the tip / point of the SE version does need that drop towards the tip, for it comes in chisel grind. It would be TOO delicate if shaped like the PM2 tip.

[Doc Dan]

I will get one eventually. I have medical bills to pay first.