Question re: military pricing

[Evil D]

Back when the PM2 first came out, didn't Sal say its MSRP was the result of its price including a lower profit margin than any of Spyderco's other knives?

I'm pretty sure that was the Manix 2, but they may be doing something similar with the PM2.

[The Deacon]

Back when the PM2 first came out, didn't Sal say its MSRP was the result of its price including a lower profit margin than any of Spyderco's other knives?

I'm pretty sure that was the Manix 2, but they may be doing something similar with the PM2.

You're probably right, David. My memory isn't what it use to be.

Beyond that, I know Sal has said that, with rare exceptions, their profit margin on knives is fairly uniform across the board and that's good enough for me. I've never felt I was entitled to know the logic involved in every business decision Spyderco, or any other company I deal with, makes. If I don't think a particular item should cost as much as it does, I simply don't buy it.

[Nate]

I'm pretty sure that was the Manix 2, but they may be doing something similar with the PM2.

I remember the Manix 2 being mentioned in the past as well. Here is an old reference to the PM2:

Hi Joe,

This seems to be a popular question. Spyderco is experimenting with lower margins on some models to see if the lower retail price will increase volume sufficiently to carry the difference.

sal

viewtopic.php?t=44711

[Albatross]

Back when the PM2 first came out, didn't Sal say its MSRP was the result of its price including a lower profit margin than any of Spyderco's other knives?

I'm pretty sure that was the Manix 2, but they may be doing something similar with the PM2.

You're probably right, David. My memory isn't what it use to be.

Beyond that, I know Sal has said that, with rare exceptions, their profit margin on knives is fairly uniform across the board and that's good enough for me. I've never felt I was entitled to know the logic involved in every business decision Spyderco, or any other company I deal with, makes. If I don't think a particular item should cost as much as it does, I simply don't buy it.

Well said. There are enough choices in the knife world to keep everyone satisfied. Realistically, these are luxuries, not necessities.

[lonerider1013]

Agree the prices seem to be fair, and I have no doubt there is a reason if one knife cost more than a seemingly similar one. That is why I asked, because the reason was not readily apparent. I certainly was not assuming Sal was ripping anyone off! Truth is I really like spydercos and appreciate the work that goes into them. But I am also not very well off so the differences seem more notable to me is all and I wondered if there was some obvious thing I was missing.
I already own a military (and a pm2, and a para3, and a Bradley 2, and.... well you get the idea) so I obviously agree the price is worth it, just not easy to save up for. To pay for my Bradley 2 I basically ate Ramen noodles for a week lol! But it was worth it!

[sal]

The burden on the military is higher. We lowered the burden as an experiment on some models a few years ago. We've not made any changes on the Millie. The Military also has some manufacturing techniques that a are a but different.

sal

[SpyderEdgeForever]

sal, here is my question regarding this: Since Spyderco released the Paramilitary Lightweight, and it appears there may be a full Military Lightweight in the not too distant future, I hope, how would the introduction of such an incredibly amazing knife change the situation?

Also, what do you think of this idea? Would it go well for people or not likely? A sortof cross-breed between the Military and the Endura: We can call it the "Mendura" or something. The thicker Endura type blade but with the Millie profile. Just an idea.

Also: Do you have any interesting and further thoughts or comments for us, if I may ask, related to that beautiful Paramilitary Tanto we saw in that knife show video which Eric had?

[rabbitanarchy14]

I actually understand and am ok with most of the (retailer) pricing, but the one thing I have never understood is why is the price on their website out of site high and retailers have them at reasonable prices. I would honestly rather buy direct from Spyderco but won't pay more just to buy from a different place. Why not make SFO the same price as retail and you would actually have more ppl buy direct like me.

[VashHash]

I actually understand and am ok with most of the (retailer) pricing, but the one thing I have never understood is why is the price on their website out of site high and retailers have them at reasonable prices. I would honestly rather buy direct from Spyderco but won't pay more just to buy from a different place. Why not make SFO the same price as retail and you would actually have more ppl buy direct like me.

Spyderco likes to keep their dealers in business. So they charge pretty much full msrp and dealers charge MAP.

[sal]

Thanx Nate. Appreciate the trust and support.

sal

[lonerider1013]

The burden on the military is higher. We lowered the burden as an experiment on some models a few years ago. We've not made any changes on the Millie. The Military also has some manufacturing techniques that a are a but different.

sal

Thank you. Again, I never meant to imply any shanannigans, just was curious because I didn't see an obvious reason for the difference.

Thank you for the awesome blades and, and, as always, for engaging with the public. Imagine if every field of business was this forthright (I cannot imagine getting a personal response from Bill Gates about computer questions, lol.).
If some of us ask questions it is because we like the knives and want to learn,
lonerider

[sal]

Thanx Lonerider,

I guess there is always the question of value for the money spent. But I believe for speculation to really mean anything, more knowledge would be required. I try to provide that when I can, but in the end, the bottom line is trust. Does our customer think we're being honest, fair and proper, or do they think we're somehow not.

We are still trying to run a model business. This means more than just providing the cheapest price, which I must admit, is all some people think about. I'm not judging, just different values. Some people that I know believe cheapest is best with little regard for quality, longevity, safety, flavor, etc.

sal

[Wartstein]

.... Some people that I know believe cheapest is best with little regard for quality, longevity, safety, flavor, etc.

sal

I have a feeling most people on this forum DON´T...

[Evil D]

I won't let a few sour grapes spoil the whole bunch.

[ChrisinHove]

The lock ramp on the Military is a work of art in itself .....

[roger-roger]

Want Military LW Lockback, Lockback, Lockback...

[Wartstein]

Want Military LW Lockback, Lockback, Lockback...

Man!! You're reading my thougts?! :D

[ladybug93]

Thanx Lonerider,

I guess there is always the question of value for the money spent. But I believe for speculation to really mean anything, more knowledge would be required. I try to provide that when I can, but in the end, the bottom line is trust. Does our customer think we're being honest, fair and proper, or do they think we're somehow not.

We are still trying to run a model business. This means more than just providing the cheapest price, which I must admit, is all some people think about. I'm not judging, just different values. Some people that I know believe cheapest is best with little regard for quality, longevity, safety, flavor, etc.

sal

with all due respect, i trust that you’re running a business. i trust that you want to earn a profit. i don’t hold that against you at all. but to suggest that your customers owe you some kind of trust that your prices are a good value is silly to me. they’ll pay it or they won’t. our trust lies in your products being good; not in your pricing being fair or consistent.
i have a problem believing that the shaman should cost what it does when compared to other similar knives in your own lineup, but i have no problem believing it’s a great product and that you are capitalizing off of it as you should. just because i don’t think your pricing is consistent across the board or makes sense all the time doesn’t mean i don’t love your products. it just means i won’t buy a shaman.
the kind of loyalty you seem to be expecting from your customers and forum members is cult-like and unrealistic. i trust your company to make good products and stand by them. i also trust your company to make money and charge as much as you think you can get for each of them. i’ll buy whatever i like that i think is worth the money and i’ll pass on the ones i don’t. people don’t owe any for-profit business the kind of trust you’re referring to.

[Wartstein]

Thanx Lonerider,

I guess there is always the question of value for the money spent. But I believe for speculation to really mean anything, more knowledge would be required. I try to provide that when I can, but in the end, the bottom line is trust. Does our customer think we're being honest, fair and proper, or do they think we're somehow not.

We are still trying to run a model business. This means more than just providing the cheapest price, which I must admit, is all some people think about. I'm not judging, just different values. Some people that I know believe cheapest is best with little regard for quality, longevity, safety, flavor, etc.

sal

with all due respect, i trust that you’re running a business. i trust that you want to earn a profit. i don’t hold that against you at all. but to suggest that your customers owe you some kind of trust that your prices are a good value is silly to me. they’ll pay it or they won’t. our trust lies in your products being good; not in your pricing being fair or consistent.
i have a problem believing that the shaman should cost what it does when compared to other similar knives in your own lineup, but i have no problem believing it’s a great product and that you are capitalizing off of it as you should. just because i don’t think your pricing is consistent across the board or makes sense all the time doesn’t mean i don’t love your products. it just means i won’t buy a shaman.
the kind of loyalty you seem to be expecting from your customers and forum members is cult-like and unrealistic. i trust your company to make good products and stand by them. i also trust your company to make money and charge as much as you think you can get for each of them. i’ll buy whatever i like that i think is worth the money and i’ll pass on the ones i don’t. people don’t owe any for-profit business the kind of trust you’re referring to.

That´s an interesting discussion.. like you, I would not want a company to expect "cult like loyality" from me (and I would not give such to anyone or anything).
But I understood Sals statement a bit differently: Not that Spyderco would EXPECT or even DEMAND some kind of trust, but rather that in general it´s a question of trust in a company (in ANY company) if they act fair in their pricing, since the customer never has full insight in the backgrounds of that, and the company never the ressources and possibilities to be totally transparent on that.
I personally do know way to little about knife-making, business in general and all the parameters that have to be considered here probably, so I just HAVE to trust to some extend..

[sal]

Hi Ladybug,

I don't think that I'm asking for anyone to do anything that they would not ordinarily do. You don't think the Shaman is worth the cost, that's fine. You shouldn't buy one. I believe what I'm trying to say is that we do not gouge our customers on any of our product. If anything, we might make less than we could. Because you can't see the cost, doesn't mean the cost isn't there. I don't believe that I am asking for or expecting unrealistic loyalty. I'm simply defending what I perceive as an implication that I am being unfair or even greedy. If it is only my inference, then you have my apology.

sal