Closing one handed: Faster with a backlock than with a compression lock.

[Wartstein]

EDIT: For there seem to be some misconceptions:

The point of this thread is NOT, that a backlock can be closed a bit faster than a comp.lock one handed (that´s totally irrelevant)
It´s only goal is to debunk the quite frequent claims that a backlock would be very much SLOWER and very much HARDER to close one handed than a comp. lock, up to the point that some people miss out on great knives just cause they shy away from a backlock. And that is sad.)


Several times I (and others) stated, that backlocks are not slower or harder to close one handed than compression locks.

Just thought, I´d check that using a stopwatch.

Preview results:

My average time from hammer grip to knife fully closed with a backlock: 0.86 seconds
My average time from hammer grip to fully closed with a compression lock: 0,96 seconds

Details:

Knives:
Stretch 1(HAP40 version) for the backlock (blade NOT free dropping at all)
PM2 for the compression lock (blade IS free dropping)

Procedure:

- Knife in an hammergrip in the right hand, ready to cut (so finger NOT on the lockbar / lock tab)
- Stopwatch in the left hand
- Closing the knife from hammer grip to fully closed, measuring the time
- Closing method comp. lock: Pressing the lock tab with index finger, "shaking" the blade into handle with one swing
- Closing method backlock: Pressing lockbar with thumb, pulling blade towards handle halfway with index finger in the hole, closing rest of the way with thumb on the spine
- I closed both knives about 20 times measuring the time, but not writing it down (for getting used to closing a knife and taking the time with my other hand simultaneously), than closing each knife 5 times and writing down the measured time.

BACKLOCK - Times (in seconds):
0.7; 0.9; 0.9; 1.0; 0.8: Average: 0.86

COMP.LOCK- Times (in seconds)
1.0; 1.1; 0.9;0.9;1.0: Average: 0.96

REMARK:
- Admittedly I am MUCH more used to backlocks than to comp.locks!
- I know it´s totally irrelevant if one can close a knife 1/10 of a second faster or not. I just wanted to GENERALLY debunk the claim that backlocks are "unbearably" slow and awkward to close, and even more so one handed...

[ladybug93]

you may be able to close the backlock faster, but the point of the comp lock is safety; not speed. every time you closed the backlock, you had to disengage the lock with three of your fingers in the blade path (based on your specified method). every time you closed the comp lock, all of your fingers were (or at least can be) completely clear of the blade path.

for the record, i have no problem with backlocks. i do, however, think the comp lock is a stronger lock and is safer to operate. same with the cbbl.

[elena86]

Keep dreaming, it's good for your health

[Wartstein]

you may be able to close the backlock faster, but the point of the comp lock is safety; not speed. every time you closed the backlock, you had to disengage the lock with three of your fingers in the blade path (based on your specified method). every time you closed the comp lock, all of your fingers were (or at least can be) completely clear of the blade path.

You are right in that with the described backlock-closing-method (just one of several more) three fingers are in the blade path.
But your fingers are in no danger at all nevertheless, at least with most Spydercos which have a Ricasso or choil.

Just tested that by delibaretely pulling the blade all the way down till it hits my finger (with Endura and Stretch): It´s ALWAYS the unsharpened part of the edge (choil /Ricasso) that is hitting the side of my middle finger! Even if I do that careless and in a haste.

Another, maybe even faster closing method evennspecifically makes use of that: Pressing lockbar with thumb - shaking blade towards handle till the Ricasso hits the side of your index finger - closing blade the rest of the way by pressing on the spine

[Wartstein]

Keep dreaming, it's good for your health

To be honest: I do not fully comprehend your reply - ?! :confused:
Those are REAL results, so just for ME closing a backlock one handed IS in fact faster than a comp. lock , no "dreaming" involved...

[ladybug93]

yeah... i’ve done the same many times myself. it’s still safer to have your fingers out of the way completely and the other lock types are still more secure.

[BornIn1500]

Realistically, people aren't in so much of a rush to close a knife that they care about 1/10th of a second. However, there can definitely be times when deploying the knife faster is beneficial. And in those cases I think the compression lock reliably beats a backlock. Not all backlocks can be easily flicked open.

[Wartstein]

yeah... i’ve done the same many times myself. it’s still safer to have your fingers out of the way completely and the other lock types are still more secure.

Maybe you are right in a just very theoretically sense when it comes to closing. In an really unlikely extreme scenario the edge could touch your fingers, and - even more unlikely - could cut you. (Same, or even more so, is true for a liner lock btw.).

But I´ve used Spyderco backlocks for many years and closed them for many thousand times I guess: No problems, never ever.

Of course, just my personal opinion and experience, yours may be different and that´s totally fine!

Now, when it comes to OVERALL security of different lock types: I think a backlock is more secure than a comp. lock: If we are already talking about "really unlikely extreme scenarios": In the light of that, a comp. lock is more likely to open in the pocket than a backlock. And as far as I am aware of, also to fail in use (at least I´ve read accounts of that here, but not so concerning the backlock. Personally I have to say: Can´t imagine neither a comp. lock nor a backlock failing on me...)

Last point: As far as I know a back lock is considered to be even stronger than a comp. lock. Don´t know if that´s true, for me both are more than strong enough.

[BornIn1500]

On the other hand... 1/10th of a second multiplied by 5 times a day on average = 1/2 a second. Multiplied by 365 days = about 180 seconds. So.... I could spend 3 more minutes on the Spyderco forum annually if I carried a backlock. This is life changing :eek:

[Wartstein]

Realistically, people aren't in so much of a rush to close a knife that they care about 1/10th of a second. However, there can definitely be times when deploying the knife faster is beneficial. And in those cases I think the compression lock reliably beats a backlock. Not all backlocks can be easily flicked open.

You are absolutely right on that it really makes no difference if you can close your knife 1/10 of a second faster or not, no doubt!
I just wanted to generally debunk the claims, that a backlock would be SOO hard and slow to close, and even almost impossible with one hand. NOT to "prove us backlock-guys right", but just to maybe encourage people to overcome their awe concerning backlocks and no longer miss out on great knives just cause they feature that lock.

/ I can flick all of my backlocks as easy as a comp. lock. (despite my backlocks are not really free dropping generally, while the comp. locks are).

[Wartstein]

On the other hand... 1/10th of a second multiplied by 5 times a day on average = 1/2 a second. Multiplied by 365 days = about 180 seconds. So.... I could spend 3 more minutes on the Spyderco forum annually if I carried a backlock. This is life changing :eek:

:p :p :p

[vivi]

yeah... i’ve done the same many times myself. it’s still safer to have your fingers out of the way completely and the other lock types are still more secure.

https://streamable.com/gfhxo

First method the cutting edge won't get you because the kick hits your hand.

Second method (the one I use) is safe because your index finger controls the blades travel. I've never cut myself closing them this way the past 15 years.

Last one shows how you can close them while keeping your fingers out of the way completely.

[bearfacedkiller]

I don’t find backlocks slow but I think the comp lock is faster. To me it doesn’t matter. As long as I can easily close it one handed and put it away I am happy.

[Wartstein]

yeah... i’ve done the same many times myself. it’s still safer to have your fingers out of the way completely and the other lock types are still more secure.

https://streamable.com/gfhxo

First method the cutting edge won't get you because the kick hits your hand.

Second method (the one I use) is safe because your index finger controls the blades travel. I've never cut myself closing them this way the past 15 years.

Last one shows how you can close them while keeping your fingers out of the way completely.

- I also use your second method most of the time, only small difference: After having pressed the lockbar and having pulled down the blade about halfway with my index finger in the hole (after that you have the readjust the knife a bit), for some reason I often times find it more natural to put index and middle finger (or middle and ring finger) on the spine (instead only index finger in the hole) and close the knife fully. (still I use exactly your method sometimes too)

- concerning your THIRD method: While it works for me, I use it very rarely. Feels a bit awkward to me and - at least with my backlocks, maybe yours have a smoother action? - is requesting the most finger strength. In any case it´s the method I´d not recommend first to "backlock-newbies"

[Wartstein]

I don’t find backlocks slow but I think the comp lock is faster. To me it doesn’t matter. As long as I can easily close it one handed and put it away I am happy.

You´re right of course. I can close backlock and comp. lock equally easy and fast (backlock a tiny bit faster), but that´s exactly my point here: To highglight this for people who maybe hesitate to get a backlock, cause they assume it´s much WORSE and much SLOWER than other locks in use...

Additionally, with very cold or greasy hands, or when wearing gloves, I personally even think a backlock is better in use than a comp.lock

And, as always I want to point out: I think by design the comp. lock is a great and ingenious idea!

[Jazz]

Back locks all the way for me. Safer. I do it very fast a lot, especially at work. You can feel and hear the self close on them better without looking too. All y'all other lock lovers are just somewhere out in space, yo. :p :D

[z4vdBt]

like a firearms draw - fast is best, and you have all the time in the world to re-holster. so you can take your time.

[Surfingringo]

I think Spyderco's with both locks can be opened and closed plenty fast. I imagine familiarity and practice have more impact on closing (and opening) speed than lock type. A guy who uses the compression lock for years will close it faster. A guy who used backlocks all the time will be faster with those. My guess would be that with equal practice and familiarity that the compression lock would be slightly faster, but the difference would be in tiny fractions of a second, so I can't imagine that being a determining factor in lock choice.

For me, I prefer the backlock and find it equally fast (or faster) and much more secure to close. By "more secure" I mean that I maintain a more secure grip and am less likely to drop the knife while closing. With a backlock, I depress the lock with my thumb and let the blade fall on my index finger. It is a completely safe method and I never have to compromise my grip on the knife. If I am using my index finger to disengage a compression lock then I have to hold the knife in a slightly less secure "pinched" grip. I'm probably just a spaz, but I have dropped a pm2 twice over the last 5 years closing that way. I have never dropped a backlock while closing and I doubt I ever will. My hands are often wet and bloody when I'm working with a folder so this factor alone is enough to make me favor a backlock over compression lock for ease of closing.

[Wartstein]

I think Spyderco's with both locks can be opened and closed plenty fast. I imagine familiarity and practice have more impact on closing (and opening) speed than lock type. A guy who uses the compression lock for years will close it faster. A guy who used backlocks all the time will be faster with those. My guess would be that with equal practice and familiarity that the compression lock would be slightly faster, but the difference would be in tiny fractions of a second, so I can't imagine that being a determining factor in lock choice.

For me, I prefer the backlock and find it equally fast (or faster) and much more secure to close. By "more secure" I mean that I maintain a more secure grip and am less likely to drop the knife while closing. With a backlock, I depress the lock with my thumb and let the blade fall on my index finger. It is a completely safe method and I never have to compromise my grip on the knife. If I am using my index finger to disengage a compression lock then I have to hold the knife in a slightly less secure "pinched" grip. I'm probably just a spaz, but I have dropped a pm2 twice over the last 5 years closing that way. I have never dropped a backlock while closing and I doubt I ever will. My hands are often wet and bloody when I'm working with a folder so this factor alone is enough to make me favor a backlock over compression lock for ease of closing.

These are really great points and exactly what I think (especially concerning security of backlock vs comp.lock), but put much better than I could have said it.

And, let me state here once more: It was my goal when creating this thread to point out to people who maybe hesitate to get a backlock, that it is equally easy and fast to close as other locks, so they don´t miss out on great knives just cause they feature a backlock.

[TomAiello]

CBBL for the win!

In all seriousness, I think that "whatever lock you are most comfortable with" is probably the answer for fast opening/closing.