Closing one handed: Faster with a backlock than with a compression lock.

[Wartstein]

...

In all seriousness, I think that "whatever lock you are most comfortable with" is probably the answer for fast opening/closing.

Sure!! With that thread I just want to contribute a tiny bit to that people (especially new to knives) don´t rule out the backlock from the outset, based on the (not too few) claims it would be unbelievable slow and awkward when it comes to one handed closing

[ladybug93]

yeah... i’ve done the same many times myself. it’s still safer to have your fingers out of the way completely and the other lock types are still more secure.

Maybe you are right in a just very theoretically sense when it comes to closing. In an really unlikely extreme scenario the edge could touch your fingers, and - even more unlikely - could cut you. (Same, or even more so, is true for a liner lock btw.).

But I´ve used Spyderco backlocks for many years and closed them for many thousand times I guess: No problems, never ever.

Of course, just my personal opinion and experience, yours may be different and that´s totally fine!

Now, when it comes to OVERALL security of different lock types: I think a backlock is more secure than a comp. lock: If we are already talking about "really unlikely extreme scenarios": In the light of that, a comp. lock is more likely to open in the pocket than a backlock. And as far as I am aware of, also to fail in use (at least I´ve read accounts of that here, but not so concerning the backlock. Personally I have to say: Can´t imagine neither a comp. lock nor a backlock failing on me...)

Last point: As far as I know a back lock is considered to be even stronger than a comp. lock. Don´t know if that´s true, for me both are more than strong enough.

i wasn’t trying to say a backlock is unsafe to use. i was just trying to say i think the comp lock is a safer lock and that it is more secure. to your point about opening in the pocket, i’d have to concede. i’ve had that happen with my yo2 and there is a little hole in one of my pockets because of it. i also agree that liner locks aren’t as safe because your thumb is in the way of the blade. and gringo’s point about the possibility of dropping a comp lock knife is also fair.

anyway, i’m not trying to bash the backlock. i daily carry spydercos with backlocks. i’ve never had any knife lock fail on me. if i’ve cut myself ever, the failure has been mine.

[Wartstein]

...
anyway, i’m not trying to bash the backlock. i daily carry spydercos with backlocks. i’ve never had any knife lock fail on me. if i’ve cut myself ever, the failure has been mine.

Thanks for your reply. If I sounded like suggesting you were trying to bash backlocks I apologize. Was not my intention at all.
/ And like it is with you: No Spyderco-lock ever failed on me.

[Bill1170]

On the other hand... 1/10th of a second multiplied by 5 times a day on average = 1/2 a second. Multiplied by 365 days = about 180 seconds. So.... I could spend 3 more minutes on the Spyderco forum annually if I carried a backlock. This is life changing :eek:

:p :p :p

That’s funny! On the strength issue, any type of lock can be made stronger or weaker.

[ZrowsN1s]

https://youtu.be/GIhOvFnTV-Q

[bearfacedkiller]

I don’t find backlocks slow but I think the comp lock is faster. To me it doesn’t matter. As long as I can easily close it one handed and put it away I am happy.

You´re right of course. I can close backlock and comp. lock equally easy and fast (backlock a tiny bit faster), but that´s exactly my point here: To highglight this for people who maybe hesitate to get a backlock, cause they assume it´s much WORSE and much SLOWER than other locks in use...

Additionally, with very cold or greasy hands, or when wearing gloves, I personally even think a backlock is better in use than a comp.lock

And, as always I want to point out: I think by design the comp. lock is a great and ingenious idea!

I think that the reason most folks don’t like backlocks is because they are not as much “fun”. They lack the fidget factor. The truth is that backlocks have a strong bias towards closing and are inherently safer. They are also ambidextrous which and comp lock isn’t.

I am hoping that the boy stops needing everything cut up soon. C’mon buddy, it is a chicken tender, just pick it up and eat it! :) His first knife? A SAK because they are cheap, durable, easy to sharpen and I want him to learn with a slipjoint so he doesn’t grow up relying on a lock. I believe that to some extent even a locking folder should be treated like a slipjoint just in case.

[Liquid Cobra]

For me, I prefer the backlock and find it equally fast (or faster) and much more secure to close. By "more secure" I mean that I maintain a more secure grip and am less likely to drop the knife while closing. With a backlock, I depress the lock with my thumb and let the blade fall on my index finger. It is a completely safe method and I never have to compromise my grip on the knife. If I am using my index finger to disengage a compression lock then I have to hold the knife in a slightly less secure "pinched" grip. I'm probably just a spaz, but I have dropped a pm2 twice over the last 5 years closing that way. I have never dropped a backlock while closing and I doubt I ever will. My hands are often wet and bloody when I'm working with a folder so this factor alone is enough to make me favor a backlock over compression lock for ease of closing.

This again Lance? I thought we (the forum) taught you to close a compression lock using the same method you described above on a backlock.


I find this thread really amusing so thanks for your post OP.

As far as lock strength goes I thought the compression lock was the winner which is why Spyderco uses it on all/most of their self defence knives. Also the compression lock is supposed to be less likely to disengage compared to the backlock.

Spyderco also chose to use the compression lock on the Spyderco junior for safety reasons, it was a knife designed for young people who are learning how to use a knife. Keeps the fingers out of the way.

[Evil D]

There's absolutely no comparison for me, the comp lock is significantly faster.

However, for me it's less about speed and more about how much focus I need to use to get it closed. About the only other lock I can close with less thought is the Plunge Lock, just press the button and fold it against my hip. I've closed back locks on my fingers accidentally, but despite the seemingly dangerous nature of a free swinging blade I've never cut myself while closing a comp lock because my fingers aren't ever in the path of the edge.

This debate will go on forever probably. No right or wrong answer for the masses I suppose but there definitely is for me personally.

[ladybug93]

I don’t find backlocks slow but I think the comp lock is faster. To me it doesn’t matter. As long as I can easily close it one handed and put it away I am happy.

You´re right of course. I can close backlock and comp. lock equally easy and fast (backlock a tiny bit faster), but that´s exactly my point here: To highglight this for people who maybe hesitate to get a backlock, cause they assume it´s much WORSE and much SLOWER than other locks in use...

Additionally, with very cold or greasy hands, or when wearing gloves, I personally even think a backlock is better in use than a comp.lock

And, as always I want to point out: I think by design the comp. lock is a great and ingenious idea!

I think that the reason most folks don’t like backlocks is because they are not as much “fun”. They lack the fidget factor. The truth is that backlocks have a strong bias towards closing and are inherently safer. They are also ambidextrous which and comp lock isn’t.

I am hoping that the boy stops needing everything cut up soon. C’mon buddy, it is a chicken tender, just pick it up and eat it! :) His first knife? A SAK because they are cheap, durable, easy to sharpen and I want him to learn with a slipjoint so he doesn’t grow up relying on a lock. I believe that to some extent even a locking folder should be treated like a slipjoint just in case.

i fidget with my df2 salt all day at work. i open and close it constantly. the comp lock is more fun, but a nice, smooth backlock is just as fun to play with. and i agree completely with your view on not trusting locks, even though i've never had any knife lock fail on me ever because i treat a folding knife like a folding knife. i got my kids saks for their first knives for the same reasons.

[Doc Dan]

Several times I (and others) stated, that backlocks are not slower or harder to close one handed than compression locks.

Just thought, I´d check that using a stopwatch.

Preview results:

My average time from hammer grip to knife fully closed with a backlock: 0.86 seconds
My average time from hammer grip to fully closed with a compression lock: 0,96 seconds

Details:

Knives:
Stretch 1(HAP40 version) for the backlock (blade NOT free dropping at all)
PM2 for the compression lock (blade IS free dropping)

Procedure:

- Knife in an hammergrip in the right hand, ready to cut (so finger NOT on the lockbar / lock tab)
- Stopwatch in the left hand
- Closing the knife from hammer grip to fully closed, measuring the time
- Closing method comp. lock: Pressing the lock tab with index finger, "shaking" the blade into handle with one swing
- Closing method backlock: Pressing lockbar with thumb, pulling blade towards handle halfway with index finger in the hole, closing rest of the way with thumb on the spine
- I closed both knives about 20 times measuring the time, but not writing it down (for getting used to closing a knife and taking the time with my other hand simultaneously), than closing each knife 5 times and writing down the measured time.

BACKLOCK - Times (in seconds):
0.7; 0.9; 0.9; 1.0; 0.8: Average: 0.86

COMP.LOCK- Times (in seconds)
1.0; 1.1; 0.9;0.9;1.0: Average: 0.96

REMARK:
- Admittedly I am MUCH more used to backlocks than to comp.locks!
- I know it´s totally irrelevant if one can close a knife 1/10 of a second faster or not. I just wanted to GENERALLY debunk the claim that backlocks are "unbearably" slow and awkward to close, and even more so one handed...

This is my experience as well.

And, there is no planet where the comp lock is stronger than a back lock, nor as safe all around as a back lock.

[Doc Dan]

https://youtu.be/6eFuENF5c08

Here is one to see just for fun.

[ladybug93]

the cold steel tri-ad lock is not the same as a backlock.

[jpm2]

Backlock or complock... I close them both the same way, so pretty much same speed.
Hammer grip, activate lock bar with thumb, pull blade down ~1/2 way with finger in hole, rotate knife with fingers out of the way and finish closing with thumb. This provides the most grip security when closing one handed.

My hands, and the knife handle can often be oily or greasy when working in areas where if I drop anything, it's gone forever.This is one reason I prefer a well made liner lock, which I consider the most secure unlocking and closing one handed due to keeping the same grip during the entire unlocking and closing action.

I also find the liner/comp locks more grip secure while opening one handed, using thumb and middle finger in the hole to break the detent, then continue opening with no resistance and fingers securely wrapped around the grip. With back locks and other spring closures, it's thumb only with side pressure, resistance all the way, and fingers not completely wrapped around the grip.

Some may say, just open and close the knife 2 handed, but that's not an option sometime.

[ugaarguy]

https://youtu.be/6eFuENF5c08

Here is one to see just for fun.

You do realize that the Tri-Ad lock adds a stop pin so the lock bar tooth is compressed between the blade tang and the stop pin, right? The Tri-Ad lock takes advantage of steel's high compressive strength just like the compression lock does. Conventional back locks are to the Tri-Ad lock as liner locks are to the compression lock.

[Doc Dan]

https://youtu.be/6eFuENF5c08

Here is one to see just for fun.

You do realize that the Tri-Ad lock adds a stop pin so the lock bar tooth is compressed between the blade tang and the stop pin, right? The Tri-Ad lock takes advantage of steel's high compressive strength just like the compression lock does. Conventional back locks are to the Tri-Ad lock as liner locks are to the compression lock.

Yes, I do. Enjoy the video.


Oh, and the Triad lock is a mid back lock. It simply has a stop pin added. There are other videos out there testing locks. Fun to watch.

[ladybug93]

and that stop pin makes a huge difference. i can push on my backlock knives and see the lock move where the blade is contacting it. it's way less secure than the tri-ad lock. they aren't even close to the same lock, except in external appearance. the tri-ad lock is more similar to the comp lock than it is a backlock.

just to reiterate, i've never had a lock fail on me. still, that doesn't mean that they are all equally secure or strong.

[jpm2]

the tri-ad lock is more similar to the comp lock than it is a backlock.

I agree.
and, the comp lock should be much more reliable than a back/mid lock.

[Surfingringo]

For me, I prefer the backlock and find it equally fast (or faster) and much more secure to close. By "more secure" I mean that I maintain a more secure grip and am less likely to drop the knife while closing. With a backlock, I depress the lock with my thumb and let the blade fall on my index finger. It is a completely safe method and I never have to compromise my grip on the knife. If I am using my index finger to disengage a compression lock then I have to hold the knife in a slightly less secure "pinched" grip. I'm probably just a spaz, but I have dropped a pm2 twice over the last 5 years closing that way. I have never dropped a backlock while closing and I doubt I ever will. My hands are often wet and bloody when I'm working with a folder so this factor alone is enough to make me favor a backlock over compression lock for ease of closing.

This again Lance? I thought we (the forum) taught you to close a compression lock using the same method you described above on a backlock.

You (the forum) did indeed teach me that. I gave it a go but it never felt right. I find it more awkward feeling having to push the lock bar to the side with the thumb in that grip than straight down like on a back lock. I also find it a bit sketchier shifting my grip after disengaging since the blade on a half closed compression lock is kind of in “free fall” mode compared to a backlock. It’s a functional method for closing a compression lock but I find it awkward enough that I don’t use it and still disengage my compression locks with my forefinger. It’s an option, just not one that I ever warmed up to.

[Surfingringo]

I just recorded myself closing a pm2 and a Salt 2. Timed it from regular grip to fully closed. No practice runs, one closing each. Normal speed, not trying to be fast. The compression lock took .95 seconds. The backlock took 1.05 seconds. I suspect if I did multiple runs they would be neck and neck. There are plenty of reasons to favor one lock over the other but I can’t imagine closing speed being one of them.

[ugaarguy]

Oh, and the Triad lock is a mid back lock. It simply has a stop pin added. There are other videos out there testing locks. Fun to watch.

That's like saying the Compression lock is just an upside down liner lock with a stop pin added. In both cases the stop pin makes a huge difference in strength because it changes where the forces are applied.

Since you like YT videos so much, here's one comparing the Tri-Ad lock to a conventional mid-back lock from Spyderco - https://youtu.be/gi5juPQuLtg.