Spyderco Forums

Albatross wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:23 am

It seems that some of the Mules are run harder, which makes sense, since they were meant for testing essentially. The K390 Pm2 and Para 3 were run softer than the P4, and if I'm not mistaken, the Mule had an even higher hrc than the P4. The Zdp-189 knives were supposedly run harder a few years ago than they are now. How accurate that is, I don't know, but there appears to be a trend, at least with some of the more exotic steels, of being run softer as time goes on. I have to wonder how much of that is a result of knives being sent in for repairs, broken blades or other, similar issues.

Yes, that makes a lot of sense, Albatross.

The P4 was apparently run a fair bit harder than both the K390 Urban and the PM2, which makes me value it even more. I didn't know that about the K390 Mule.

Yep, the ZDP189 Mule actually ran into cracking problems for a few users, IIRC, which no doubt led to the hardness being dialled down a bit thereafter.

I think sometimes we knife knuts need to remember that the average Joe or Jill has very different standards to us.

Spyderco see all the snapped tips returned to them, from behaviour that we would scorn as knife abuse, and those users still need to be kept happy.

I suppose part of the value of threads like this is also in building up multiple data points.

I'd be interested to see any more AEB-L Urban RC readings.

Cambertree wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:34 pm

Albatross wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:23 am

It seems that some of the Mules are run harder, which makes sense, since they were meant for testing essentially. The K390 Pm2 and Para 3 were run softer than the P4, and if I'm not mistaken, the Mule had an even higher hrc than the P4. The Zdp-189 knives were supposedly run harder a few years ago than they are now. How accurate that is, I don't know, but there appears to be a trend, at least with some of the more exotic steels, of being run softer as time goes on. I have to wonder how much of that is a result of knives being sent in for repairs, broken blades or other, similar issues.

Yes, that makes a lot of sense, Albatross.

The P4 was apparently run a fair bit harder than both the K390 Urban and the PM2, which makes me value it even more. I didn't know that about the K390 Mule.

Yep, the ZDP189 Mule actually ran into cracking problems for a few users, IIRC, which no doubt led to the hardness being dialled down a bit thereafter.

I think sometimes we knife knuts need to remember that the average Joe or Jill has very different standards to us.

Spyderco see all the snapped tips returned to them, from behaviour that we would scorn as knife abuse, and those users still need to be kept happy.

I suppose part of the value of threads like this is also in building up multiple data points.

I'd be interested to see any more AEB-L Urban RC readings.

Looks like the K390 mule was closer to the current PM2 and Para 3, so disregard my previous statement about the steel.

HRC Test taken about a week ago, for the C101GPBN2 Manix 2 Brown/M390 Satin Knife.
Poke #1 = 62.2 HRC
Poke #2 = 62.1 HRC

More to follow, in the coming weeks. Meaning more testing of this same model, to get a better idea of the range. Also, the first test of the DLC version, will get done this next week as well.

Very good, Sal. Thank you Sir! :spyder:

62+ HRC is some good M390!

These are a few I had tested in the QC lab at my workplace. I still have a Shaman Cruwear to test next week.

*PM2 k390 63.4 "Deadboxhero was getting very similar results on his as shown in his posts."
*Shaman 4v 65.2 hrc. " I saw the Para 3 models were 64+, but
I was still pleasantly surprised with this."

Pelagic wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:50 am

62+ HRC is some good M390!

Yes, this really is unicorn territory, for M390. As far as production knives go. It needs to be in this range, or higher. To get the premium cutting performance we are looking to get, and were sold, by knife manufactures.

Personally, I can hardly wait for this steel to completely go away. It must be a Herculean effort, to get it this well done. It's only the third knife, ever, that we have found. That attained this level of hardness. Out of the 45 or so M390 knives, that have been tested so far. From about a dozen different knife manufacturers. And 90%+ of those knives, have been below 60 HRC.

The only other two knives found, to be done this well. Were also Spyderco knives. They are the BBS PM 2 M390, and the DLT PM 2 M390. :spyder:

Kyle8734 wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:46 pm

Had two knives tested a while back by Kurt-
Delica M390- 61.4 and 61.8
Urban AEB-L- 59.1 and 59.3

Curious to see what other numbers might be out there for the M390 Delica. Respectable numbers here that seem to be dismissed because it's not 62(+) :rolleyes:.

weeping minora wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:47 pm

Kyle8734 wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:46 pm

Had two knives tested a while back by Kurt-
Delica M390- 61.4 and 61.8
Urban AEB-L- 59.1 and 59.3

Curious to see what other numbers might be out there for the M390 Delica. Respectable numbers here that seem to be dismissed because it's not 62(+) :rolleyes:.

I didn't dismiss other HRC ratings. I was just saying it's nice to see m390 getting closer to reaching it's full potential.

I did a Vickers Hardness Test on my Delica 4 VG-10 Sabre Grind in the metallurgical department where i wrote my bachelor thesis.

#1: 694 HV10
#2: 723 HV10
#3: 710 HV10

Avg: 709 HV10

equals: 60,5 HRC

Greetings

Police 4

At what HRC does a knife edge easily scratch glass? 63+? 64? I remember Shawn said it once in a video, but I can't find it.

emanuel wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:21 am

At what HRC does a knife edge easily scratch glass? 63+? 64? I remember Shawn said it once in a video, but I can't find it.

It is quite a trick, to test HRC that way. Since Glass also varies in hardness, and is tested with a different Scale (Mohs).
Now if a person knew just exactly how hard their piece of glass is, and, it's within the HRC Scale range (Standard for Knives). Then some idea could be obtained.

The Mohs Hardness Scale Test, is done by scratching a mineral (or Glass in this instance) with ten different reference minerals. The test is useful because most specimens of a given mineral are very close to the same hardness. This makes hardness a reliable diagnostic property for most minerals.

Mineral Hardness
Talc 1
Gypsum 2
Calcite 3
Fluorite 4
Apatite 5
Orthoclase 6
Quartz 7
Topaz 8
Corundum 9
Diamond 10

Example:
Glass hardness range of 5-7 Mohs Hardness Scale (HM).
Converting 5 HM to HRC = 51.4
5.5 HM = 58.8 HRC
6 HM = 64.9 HRC
6.5 HM = 68.6 HRC
7 HM hard glass, leaves the reliable area of the HRC Scale. But if it didn't, it would be about 71 HRC, or 80.3 HRD.
The Mohs Scales scratch test at 6 HM, is done with a Orthoclase Feldspar Stone.

So if you have a piece of Orthoclase Stone, and you can clearly tell which piece scratched which. Then a 66 HRC blade, would not be scratched by the Orthoclase Stone. Whereas a 64 HRC blade would be scratched.

Fellow rock hound?

Thought it was a good idea to have this info posted in more than one place in the thread in case I accidentally delete something in an edit.

:spyder: :spyder: :spyder: :spyder: :spyder: :spyder: :spyder: :spyder: :spyder:
.
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:spyder:

MAXAMET Manix 2 LW - (66.2 - 69) HRC
MAXAMET Paramilitary 2 - 68 HRC
MAXAMET Mule - (67 - 68) HRC
REX45 Military - (66.3 - 67) HRC
REX45 Paramilitary 2 - (65 - 66.7) HRC
ZDP-189 Mule - 66.4 HRC
K390 Police 4 G-10 - (64 -65.5) HRC
4V Manix 2 (Marbled CF) - 65 HRC
4V Para 3 (St. Nicks Exclusive) - (64.8 -65) HRC
ZDP-189 Endura 4 - (63 -65) HRC
REX45 Para 3 - 64.7 HRC
M4 Paramilitary 2 - 64.3 HRC
M4 Manix 2 - 64.2 HRC
M4 Shaman - (63.9 - 64) HRC
ZDP-189 Delica 4 (Saber) - (63.5 - 64) HRC
S110V Military - (63-64) HRC
K390 Mule - (62-64) HRC
Cruwear Manix 2 - (63.2 - 63.7) HRC
M4 Gayle-Bradley 2 - 63.2 HRC
ZDP-189 Dragonfly 2 - 63.1 HRC
52100 Mule - 63.1 HRC
10V K2 - 63 HRC
M4 Para 3 - 63 HRC
B75P Mule - (62-63) HRC
Cruwear Military - 62.9 HRC
52100 Paramilitary 2 - 62.8 HRC
Cruwear Mule (re-release) - (62.1 -62.8) HRC
Cruwear Paramilitary 2 - (62 - 62.8) HRC
Super Blue Mule - 62.5 HRC
PMA11 Mule - 62.5 HRC
M4 Mule - (60.8 - 62.5 HRC)
M4 Gayle-Bradley 1 - 62.5 HRC
K390 Urban - 62.5 HRC
M390 Paramilitary 2 - 62 HRC
S110V Manix 2 - 62 HRC
XHP Chaparral FRN - 62 HRC
Cruwear Paramilitary 2 - 62 HRC
S110V Paramilitary 2 - (60.9 - 62) HRC
PSF27 Mule - 61.9 HRC
Cruwear Para 3 - 61.7 HRC
XHP Para 3 - 61.5 HRC
Cruwear Military - 61.1 HRC
M390 Military - 61 HRC
Super Blue Calypso Jr. - (60.8 - 61) HRC
S30V Amalgam - 60.7 HRC
20CV Manix 2 - 60.6 HRC
M390 Mule - (59.2 - 60.5) HRC
XHP Military - 60.5 HRC
S30V Para 3 - 60.3 HRC
XHP Mule - (60 - 60.3) HRC
S30V Manix 2 - 60.1 HRC
BD1N Para 3 LW - 60 HRC
BD1N UKPK - 60 HRC
S110V Mule - 60 HRC
S90V Military - 60 HRC
S30V Manix 2 (Backlock) - 60 HRC
S30V Military - 60 HRC
S35VN Native 5 LW - 60 HRC
RWL34 Mule - 60 HRC
20CV Mule - 60 HRC
M390 Para 3 - (59.6 -60) HRC
S90V Manix 2 LW - 59.9 HRC
S35VN Para 3 - (59- 59.6) HRC
S90V Mule - 59.2 HRC
BD1 UKPK SLIPIT - 59.1 HRC
S30V Paramilitary 2 - (58.8 - 59) HRC
S30V Delica Wharncliffe - 59 HRC
S30V Delica - 59 HRC
BD1 Manix 2 LW - 59 HRC
ELMAX Mule - (58.3 -58.5) HRC
LC200N Spydiechef - (57.8 - 58.1) HRC
VG-10 Delica 4 - 58 HRC
VG-10 Endura - 57.9 HRC
N690 Roadie - 57.8
8Cr13MoV Tenacious - 57.6 HRC
8Cr13MoV Tenacious (Red) - 56.8 HRC
LC200N Mule - 56.8 HRC



:spyder:

Any idea, which Cruwear Manix 2 run/year model that (63.2 - 63.7) HRC is from? :)

I'd be super curious to know what the PD#1 Mules hrc would come in at. I wonder how close to the cpm-cruwear mule it would be

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:38 am

I'd be super curious to know what the PD#1 Mules hrc would come in at. I wonder how close to the cpm-cruwear mule it would be

The Cruwear Mule was made from cast/ingot Cruwear not CPM Cruwear.

Keep up the good work fellas

attila wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:44 am

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:38 am

I'd be super curious to know what the PD#1 Mules hrc would come in at. I wonder how close to the cpm-cruwear mule it would be

The Cruwear Mule was made from cast/ingot Cruwear not CPM Cruwear.

Ah, thank you. So the PD#1 should still be ran around the current versions of cruwear and hoping that the micarta shaman get the best version.