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Re: HRC Database

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:31 pm
by David R
Great thread. No question Kurt and David from BB are doing us a huge service. I'd be happy to get another spreadsheet going with all the results and some graphs. Is there value unless these can all be substantiated?
koenigsegg wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 12:48 pm
Maybe I'll just fill in HRC data to the cut test list below

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... G4tug/edit
Already done. The Cedric & Ada data has the BladeBanter HRC data integrated. I can look at adding the other results mentioned here, but without some substantiation it needs to be considered anecdotal.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:39 am
by ZrowsN1s
David R wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:31 pm
Great thread. No question Kurt and David from BB are doing us a huge service. I'd be happy to get another spreadsheet going with all the results and some graphs. Is there value unless these can all be substantiated?

For those asking about getting these lined up with cut tests, the Cedric & Ada spreadsheet has some HRC data mapped to cut test results. It's only using the BB data so far.
I'm always happy to have more data points.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:06 am
by koenigsegg
Hey guys I just like being able to have all the references, I don't always realize all the issues with crossing streams

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:54 am
by ZrowsN1s
David R wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:31 pm
Great thread. No question Kurt and David from BB are doing us a huge service. I'd be happy to get another spreadsheet going with all the results and some graphs. Is there value unless these can all be substantiated?
koenigsegg wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 12:48 pm
Maybe I'll just fill in HRC data to the cut test list below

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... G4tug/edit
Already done. The Cedric & Ada data has the BladeBanter HRC data integrated. I can look at adding the other results mentioned here, but without some substantiation it needs to be considered anecdotal.
Most of it is substantiated by JcoolG19 who did the majority of these tests. How ever, it's not my goal to substantiate the numbers. As stated in the first post these numbers are approximations and corrections and additions are always welcome. This list should NEVER be considered the last word on a particular knives heat treat. In fact outside of testing your own individual knife, I would say there is no way to tell what it is. But hopefully these numbers will give people a general idea or ballpark.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:18 am
by David R
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:54 am
David R wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:31 pm
Great thread. No question Kurt and David from BB are doing us a huge service. I'd be happy to get another spreadsheet going with all the results and some graphs. Is there value unless these can all be substantiated?
koenigsegg wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 12:48 pm
Maybe I'll just fill in HRC data to the cut test list below

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... G4tug/edit
Already done. The Cedric & Ada data has the BladeBanter HRC data integrated. I can look at adding the other results mentioned here, but without some substantiation it needs to be considered anecdotal.
Most of it is substantiated by JcoolG19 who did the majority of these tests. How ever, it's not my goal to substantiate the numbers. As stated in the first post these numbers are approximations and corrections a d addictions are always welcome. This list should NEVER be considered the last word on a particular knives heat treat. In fact outside of testing your own individual knife, I would say there is no way to tell whatvit is. But hopefully these numbers will give people a general idea or ballpark.
I'm not worried about variability between tests. I'm concerned about including data that somebody posts here without knowing and verifying the results from the source. I don't mean to imply that the data is bad. I just don't know that it's good based on a post in this forum. The JcoolG19 data is being moved into the BladeBanter spreadsheet and I'm confident about that HRC data. If I can verify some of the other data posted in this thread I'm happy to include it as well. It will likely just take a little homework on my part.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:52 pm
by ZrowsN1s
As far as I know *edit-most- numbers posted can ultimately be attributed to one of three sources... testing done by Kurt for people I know on IG, Ankersons BF list, and the BB spreadsheet. That being said I'm sure I'll get some stuff wrong. I try to be as accurate as I can.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:17 pm
by ferider
Most of the Mule numbers come from JLS. Some numbers come from Sal himself.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:18 pm
by ZrowsN1s
ferider wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:17 pm
Most of the Mule numbers come from JLS. Some numbers come from Sal himself.
I forgot those thanks :D

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:08 pm
by David R
I believe the BB spreadsheet is exclusively tests from Kurt. I could be wrong and hope they correct me if so.

The Mule numbers in the BB spreadsheet come from Kurt. I know this because they're my Mules. Have a few more to send him. If you're referring to other Mule numbers I'll take a look.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:13 pm
by ZrowsN1s
I also forgot Frankie Blades at Tactical Pterodactyl. A few of these are from his tests as well. He just posted some testing pics up on Instagram of Maxamet. The new PM2 @68 hrc and a pic of the Manix LW @69 hrc.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:05 am
by AlexRus
Useful.
Anyway has any updates on this thread?

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:10 pm
by ZrowsN1s
AlexRus wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:05 am
Useful.
Anyway has any updates on this thread?
Haven't seen any new testing done or had anyone report numbers to me here, so nope.

I did add a little to the disclaimer on the first page.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:32 pm
by JD Spydo
You've got my vote. Really when you think it over it just makes perfect sense. I also think it would be a great information tool for the consumer to make a better, more informed choice. Because I'm doubtful if any other knife company would take the initiative to do something like that. Spyderco could truly make this to their advantage in many ways.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:43 pm
by The Meat man
Anyone get their Province tested yet? I'm curious to see if Spyderco ran them as hard as their CPM 4V folders.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:36 pm
by wrdwrght
I see no reference to H1 in this list. Perhaps Sal’s comments on H1’s hardness(es) should be included?

Responding in BladeForums (post #16 in https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/h1- ... ost4484958), Sal said:

“When the foundry rolls the H1, they roll to two different hardness, we end up with 58 for the blade material and considerably lower spec for the lock material. Not meaning to be disrespectful, but the two hardnesses are controlled by the rolling process.

“Dick Barber, metallurgist for Crucible steels was curious as to why the H1 steel was testing so well and wanted to do metallurgical testing on the material. We sent them samples and they did their tests. In their micro hardness testing, they found the H1 was differentially hardening. Their explanation was as I described.

“The were getting over 60 (64/65 as I remembber the report) at the edge of the blade, 58 at the spine and various hardness in between as they went from the spine to the edge.

“The serrted edge version was higher (68 as I remember) which Mr. Barber attributed to the extra "work" (heat) required to serrate the edge over just sharpening as on the plain edge.”

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:46 pm
by Kyle8734
Had two knives tested a while back by Kurt-
Delica M390- 61.4 and 61.8
Urban AEB-L- 59.1 and 59.3

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:53 pm
by Pelagic
BBB's k390 pm2: 63.5 HRC (average of 5 readings).

Taken from his thread.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:23 pm
by ZrowsN1s
Hey guys sorry, been busy with the new job, I'll update the list with the new info when I get a minute. Thanks for posting :spyder: :D

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:00 am
by Cambertree
Kyle8734 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:46 pm
Urban AEB-L- 59.1 and 59.3
That's interesting - about the same hardness that Mora runs their 12C27.

I would have guessed mine was a little harder, by the feel on the stones. I would have thought they'd aim target hardness in the 60-62 range. I think Sal mentioned their AEB-L mule proto was in that range.

Re: HRC Database

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:23 am
by Albatross
Cambertree wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:00 am
Kyle8734 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:46 pm
Urban AEB-L- 59.1 and 59.3
That's interesting - about the same hardness that Mora runs their 12C27.

I would have guessed mine was a little harder, by the feel on the stones. I would have thought they'd aim target hardness in the 60-62 range. I think Sal mentioned their AEB-L mule proto was in that range.
It seems that some of the Mules are run harder, which makes sense, since they were meant for testing essentially. The K390 Pm2 and Para 3 were run softer than the P4, and if I'm not mistaken, the Mule had an even higher hrc than the P4. The Zdp-189 knives were supposedly run harder a few years ago than they are now. How accurate that is, I don't know, but there appears to be a trend, at least with some of the more exotic steels, of being run softer as time goes on. I have to wonder how much of that is a result of knives being sent in for repairs, broken blades or other, similar issues.