Poll: more CBBL

[Wartstein]

I think Sal said there were difficulties fitting the CBBL into a smaller package though.

I'll keep my fingers crossed. :)

I think that's true, especially into a NARROWER package resp. handle.. as far as I know a CBBL knife does require a choil in the blade (so the blade does not interfere with the CBBL in the handle when folded in).
Now imagine a very slim knife like lets say the Kapara, and give it a CBBL: IF there was space enough in the handle for a CBBL at all, the blade would have to feature a compared to it's overall height crazy deep choil probably...

But all I said here above is more or less just theoretical guessing to be honest. Don't have a CBBL knife at hand to check if I'm right.

Also I don't know if the CBBL itself could be "shrinked" to fit more handles... ?

----

One could grind down the lock button to make it slimmer, but I actually find it more usable when sticking out like this. Just posting this to show that even the existing Manix 2 CBBL works very well in a much narrower package.

----

HI Roland,

that are great looking knives!!

But I think I did not make clear enough what I meant by NARROW handle (or that a CBBL maybe could not be fitted well in a narrower handle):

I did not talk about a SLIM handle (when looking at it from above,), but of one that is not TALL when looking at it from the side..

That´s why I meant the CBBL would maybe not fit into a f.e. Kapara-handle well, as this lock requires some space in the handle: NOT concerning handle THICKNESS, but handle HEIGHT.
And, IF you could somehow fit a CBBL in a NOT tall handle, the required choil in the blade (so that the blade does not interfere with the lock inside the handle when folded in) would have to be ridicoulously deep relative to the blade height probably.

But, again, all just guessing!

[Wartstein]

Next to a well executed back lock, this is my favorite lock. I have long hoped for more knives with this lock. A Military with this lock would be amazing.

I wonder if it is just a coincidence (or even a false impression anyway) that people who like a backlock also seem to like a CBBL...?!

I can remember several posts (including some of my owns) mentioning, that backlock is number one, followed by the CBBL. Could be that´s just the case on this forum, and probably that posts are always written by the same 4 or 5 people.

But if not: Maybe these two locks have in common:

- Strong detent?
- A little bit of work / tiny bit more "strain" (probably the wrong term, what I mean is: you feel a little bit more what you´re doing when operating a backlock/CBBL than it is with a comp. lock for example) to open/close?
- Ease of operation in harsh conditions (cold, wet fingers, gloves...)? (But that´s were a liner lock also really shines, a comp lock not so much)
- Totally ambidextrous?

I don´t know. Just guessing, if there are reasons, that explain why the type of knife guy who likes backlocks also likes CBBLs (IF that is the case anyway) ..

(To be clear: I have nothing against comp. locks. Imho technically a really ingenious design, is very easy to operate in not too harsh conditions (and even better with smaller hands/fingers, I guess..); I´d take a knife that I really like with a comp. lock anytime (Shaman...) but happen to prefer a backlock (again, Shaman... would be even better with a backlock for me personally--- )

[Albatross]

More CBBL models would be great. There are 2 knives specifically, which would be amazing with a CBBL in my opinion; the Military and the upcoming Chief. I like both as they are, but having lock options like the Lil Native does, sure would make a few of us happy.

On a more practical note, I do think the best candidate, excluding new models, is the Stretch 2. Sal has mentioned slow sales on the Stretch, but I'd be willing to bet sales would increase with a CBBL. The price may increase, but so would appeal.

[Doc Dan]

Next to a well executed back lock, this is my favorite lock. I have long hoped for more knives with this lock. A Military with this lock would be amazing.

I wonder if it is just a coincidence (or even a false impression anyway) that people who like a backlock also seem to like a CBBL...?!

I can remember several posts (including some of my owns) mentioning, that backlock is number one, followed by the CBBL. Could be that´s just the case on this forum, and probably that posts are always written by the same 4 or 5 people.

But if not: Maybe these two locks have in common:

- Strong detent?
- A little bit of work / tiny bit more "strain" (probably the wrong term, what I mean is: you feel a little bit more what you´re doing when operating a backlock/CBBL than it is with a comp. lock for example) to open/close?
- Ease of operation in harsh conditions (cold, wet fingers, gloves...)? (But that´s were a liner lock also really shines, a comp lock not so much)
- Totally ambidextrous?

I don´t know. Just guessing, if there are reasons, that explain why the type of knife guy who likes backlocks also likes CBBLs (IF that is the case anyway) ..

(To be clear: I have nothing against comp. locks. Imho technically a really ingenious design, is very easy to operate in not too harsh conditions (and even better with smaller hands/fingers, I guess..); I´d take a knife that I really like with a comp. lock anytime (Shaman...) but happen to prefer a backlock (again, Shaman... would be even better with a backlock for me personally--- )

Back lock = strongest locks. CBBL = very strong lock. Both have bias to close. Both are ambidextrous. Both are easy to maintain. Both are easy to operate and you do not have to have your finger in the way of the knife edge to close them.

[ferider]

...

By now, I have 3 liner-less Ti Manix'es (M4, S110V, and hollow ground S30V), and have been using them for several months. They seem to hold up very well.
:

Those are the best looking Manixes I've seen. Are the Flytanium scale clip holes tapped, or do you have to use the steel liners to retain pocket clip mounting? Also, what did you use as a spacer (washer?) for the pivot on the liner-less one in your photo? Thanks.

Thanks. Flytanium scale clip holes are not tapped, so you would need some brass inserts or similar to put a clip on (I mostly don't use clips though). The Pivot, Pivot washer and screw come from a lightweight Manix. I "countersunk" the washers a little, since they are quite fat.

Roland.

[ferider]

HI Roland,

:
That´s why I meant the CBBL would maybe not fit into a f.e. Kapara-handle well, as this lock requires some space in the handle: NOT concerning handle THICKNESS, but handle HEIGHT.
And, IF you could somehow fit a CBBL in a NOT tall handle, the required choil in the blade (so that the blade does not interfere with the lock inside the handle when folded in) would have to be ridicoulously deep relative to the blade height probably.
:

Makes sense. BTW, my other favorite Spyderco lock is the Power lock, I just wish they'd bring it back.

[Tucson Tom]

....

(I've never been able to open a CBBL with one hand, and I have been rock climbing for some time.)
My view is that if I can't work out how to operate a lock using common sense, then that method is
just not for me. If I have to practice and struggle, I am barking up the wrong tree.

One handed with the compression lock is easy and instinctive both opening and closing.

With all respect let me ask: Could it be, that just YOUR particular CBBL knife has an unusual strong lock for whatever reason?! In my experience operating the CBBL with only one finger is really not hard and does not require overly strong (" rock climbing"-) fingers... the post above yours says about the same, the guy could learn it within 15 minutes.

But again: My OWN CBBL experience is based on only one single knife I had.

EDIT: Read your post once more: You literally mean, you can't open a CBBL with one HAND (so you need rwo HANDS to open it?)? Or did you mean "operate the lock with one finger"?

No disrespect, a valid question. But I have 3 manixes (manices? What is the plural of manix? Where did that name come from anyway?)
All three are beyond the ability of my weakling index finger and are pretty similar in spring strength.

The manix is easy and wonderful to OPEN with one hand -- just put my thumb in the Spyd-hole and push. Failproof, foolproof and no fine motor skills involved. Works reliably every time with virtually no brain cells involved. And the same technique works for every Spyderco I own, so it is a good habit to form.

Closing with one hand is a different matter -- I have learned to do it with a pinch on the buttons. It just requires a bit of a shift and adjustment of grip on the knife. Then once it is released a shake gets it closed or I push the blade against a leg or nearby object.

Working the release with one finger or thumb is where rock-climber grade finger strength is required. I can manage it by hooking my thumbnail on the top of the "button" as Vivi shows, but I think it is only reasonable if you keep your thumbnails trimmed close. More fussing around than I want to deal with.

As for Vivi's comments about the knife having a bias to close, he is absolutely right. The backlock is best in this regard, but the CBBL is a close second. The liner lock and compression lock have virtually no bias to close, but do have a pretty decent detent, at least on Spydercos.

I have never had a Spyderco open up in my pocket. I did have a nasty business of that sort with an assisted flipper from another maker. No stitches were needed though.

The whole business of lobbying for different lock types on existing designs makes me laugh. If I was Spyderco, I would be really reluctant to change the lock type on a big seller like the PM2, PM3, or Military.

[Wartstein]

....

Working the release with one finger or thumb is where rock-climber grade finger strength is required.

Thanks for your reply...
... And that´s what I do on many days, of course JUST to strengthen my fingers for backlock-flicking and CBBL one fingered opening...

[Wartstein]

....

(

No disrespect, a valid question. But I have 3 manixes (manices? What is the plural of manix? Where did that name come from anyway?)
All three are beyond the ability of my weakling index finger and are pretty similar in spring strength.

The manix is easy and wonderful to OPEN with one hand -- just put my thumb in the Spyd-hole and push. Failproof, foolproof and no fine motor skills involved. Works reliably every time with virtually no brain cells involved. And the same technique works for every Spyderco I own, so it is a good habit to form.

Closing with one hand is a different matter -- I have learned to do it with a pinch on the buttons. It just requires a bit of a shift and adjustment of grip on the knife. Then once it is released a shake gets it closed or I push the blade against a leg or nearby object.

Working the release with one finger or thumb is where rock-climber grade finger strength is required. I can manage it by hooking my thumbnail on the top of the "button" as Vivi shows, but I think it is only reasonable if you keep your thumbnails trimmed close. More fussing around than I want to deal with.

As for Vivi's comments about the knife having a bias to close, he is absolutely right. The backlock is best in this regard, but the CBBL is a close second. The liner lock and compression lock have virtually no bias to close, but do have a pretty decent detent, at least on Spydercos.

I have never had a Spyderco open up in my pocket. I did have a nasty business of that sort with an assisted flipper from another maker. No stitches were needed though.

The whole business of lobbying for different lock types on existing designs makes me laugh. If I was Spyderco, I would be really reluctant to change the lock type on a big seller like the PM2, PM3, or Military.

Ok, now I have time for a more detailled reply than yesterday:

Maybe I really do underestimate how strong fingers- and as a consequence how easy manipulating CBBLs - can get from training them 3 or 4 days a week - ?! That indeed would explain, why I find closing CBBLS one fingered not hard in any way.
But then - Don´t want to go off topic and talk in length about rock climbing training, but I always was of the impression, that while of course rock climbers are overall pretty strong generally and even more so when it comes to finger strength, that´s only true in relation to their usually quite low body weight (So I am almost 6.2 ", but weighing only about 168 pounds, despite having I think quite some climbing-relevant muscles (and not much body fat)).
So, absolutely seen, a 270 pound craftsman probably has a lot stronger fingers than a rock climber, but just not related to his bodyweight

Don´t know... might be a mixture of finger strength, being used to and technique that makes opening CBBLS one fingered easy or not...

That being said, I think your pinch it, than shake it closing method is a very good one handed one anyway! I did this a lot with my Manix.

/ As for safety in the pocket: Right, I never had a Spyderco open in my pocket either, just a BM Minigrip (To be clear: I think the BM Axxis lock is cool and a good design, just not the safest in pocket).

/ "Lobbying for different lock types...makes me laugh,,, ": I generally agree with you. But sometimes I think, that offering a model in TWO different locks would rise the sales by a lot (PM2 in backlock; Stretch in Comp. lock...)

[BLUETYPEII]

I want to see more CBBL locks done like the ones on the
Q ball & D'Allara 3, I think they look very nice.

[Larry_Mott]

I want to see more CBBL locks done like the ones on the
Q ball & D'Allara 3, I think they look very nice.

I agree. Those are not CBBL (Caged Ball Bearing Lock) though, but i prefer them as well over the Manix.

[rybu0305]

It is silly how every conversation about CBBL seems to go to one finger opening and closing. That's great if you can do it but it is not how the lock was designed. You don't need mountain climber hands to open or close this knife and you don't even need practice to pull the lock back with two fingers and close the knife.

We all have preferences about blade shape and steel and in the same way preferences about locks. People generally find something they enjoy. We ask for the same designs with different locks for this reason. Its about find that combination that is just right for you. The purpose of this thread/poll is because those of us who love the CBBL do not have as many options as those who prefer the comp lock or back lock. The catalog is filled with backlock and comp lock knives. You have plenty to choose from. As for the CBBL, that is a different story.

[Wartstein]

Deleted!

[attila]

It is silly how every conversation about CBBL seems to go to one finger opening and closing. That's great if you can do it but it is not how the lock was designed. You don't need mountain climber hands to open or close this knife and you don't even need practice to pull the lock back with two fingers and close the knife.

We all have preferences about blade shape and steel and in the same way preferences about locks. People generally find something they enjoy. We ask for the same designs with different locks for this reason. Its about find that combination that is just right for you. The purpose of this thread/poll is because those of us who love the CBBL do not have as many options as those who prefer the comp lock or back lock. The catalog is filled with backlock and comp lock knives. You have plenty to choose from. As for the CBBL, that is a different story.

Very well said.

I also just want more CBBL options. Different lengths and blade profiles would be great.

[VashHash]

If they introduced more Cbbl designs I'd hope they would opt for a steel cage. At least something more durable than the polymer. I've had it crack on one of my examples. Not sure if the black polymer is more durable than the original clear but I haven't tried to find out. I know there was an aftermarket maker who was going to do this but dropped out. I think he was doing to use titanium. Ti would also allow some cool anodizing options too.

[Tucson Tom]

If they introduced more Cbbl designs I'd hope they would opt for a steel cage. At least something more durable than the polymer. I've had it crack on one of my examples. Not sure if the black polymer is more durable than the original clear but I haven't tried to find out.

Well, here it is. The alligator in the closet. The bison in the middle of the room that nobody wants to talk about.

That little plastic cage is the achilles heel of the CBBL design. As anyone who is not a youngster has learned, all plastics deteriorate and break, usually sooner rather than later. Of course the word "plastic" covers a myriad of materials with diverse properties, but the generalization still holds.

This is one of the big reasons I choose the compression lock as the "ultimate" lock. No fiddly little plastic parts that will break down and prevent me passing the knife on to my descendants.

Of course G10 (and FRN/FRCP) are all plastics too. Any product needs to be designed with some concept of "product life" or at least we accept certain tradeoffs in that aspect of things in exchange for other things (price, ease of manufacturing). I am not so worried about G10 for some reason, but maybe I should be?

[VashHash]

I also prefer the comp lock. Especially in a dirty environment. Much easier to clean and keep debris out of the mechanism. I could only imagine how sand would effect a cbbl. I know it's not so bad in a comp lock or back lock.

I don't dislike the cbbl i just think the cage aspect needs improving. It's a lock that can adjust for wear because the lock face surface is always rotating. I imagine it could possibly be sealed some way too to help keep debris out or to a minimum. Of course I'm not an engineer so how that would be done is up to spyderco if they would see a need for it.

Just for clarification I did vote yes to more cbbl.

[JonLeBlanc]

Nah I'm good thx lol

[Wartstein]

Well, here it is. The alligator in the closet. The bison in the middle of the room that nobody wants to talk about.

That little plastic cage is the achilles heel of the CBBL design.....

In my case it's not that I "don't want to talk about" it, it's just that I have never heard of issues concerning the plastic cage and honestly never even thought about it... but IF that thing is a weak point of the design (and I personally can't tell if it is or not, had my Manix not long enough for that): That would make me like the CBBL less than I do right now indeed...

[silvershade255]

Don't forget the pkal. It shows that the cbbl can fit in smaller designs, it's just a question of what trade offs were made to do so.