Spyderco Screw vs Pinned issue again.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

A fellow knife enthusiast made this claim to me, specifically regarding Spyderco folders, but, also applicable to other knives, both folding and fixed. When discussing the various Spyderco models, the person said it is objectively provable that the knives held together with screw construction are more durable and resist breakage when put under both extreme stress and everyday use, more than the knives with scales that are pinned on. Is this realistic or just a personal opinion?

I would think one definite positive side to screw construction Spyderco knives would be that the user could adjust them and tighten them. You cannot do that with pins.

[zhyla]

I’d say that sounds like a made up story.

[jacala]

IF ?? that statement is true or close to true- then the pinned Spydercos would be less likely to have the material break,
hence the pins.
Hands up ! all those whose pinned Spydercos have had cracked or broken scales.

[steelcity16]

I'm not sure about that claim, but I STRONGLY prefer screw construction for the ability to adjust tension, take down to clean/lube, and customize if that's your thing. I really wish the Manix LW was screw construction. It's the only thing I don't like about that model. I'm hoping they switch over soon before any new exclusives, sprints, or salts are released. I'd sell my current Manix LW and buy a new one if they CQI'd it in the Blue/BD1 model.

[Doc Dan]

I have an island in Death Valley, surrounded by a beautiful lake to sell. Any takers? Pinned construction has advantages over screwed construction just as screwed construction has advantages over pinned. Neither one is good or bad. Knives have been made with pinned construction for a long time have stood the test of time. It allows for better tolerances and other factors. I have never had an issue with a pinned knife. I rarely take knives apart. I slightly prefer screwed together construction, but mostly so I can change scales or clean the knife easier, not because it is stronger. In fact, I could see where those tiny short screws could be weaker than those long hardened pins. I am no knife engineer, but I think the pivot is more important for strength in use.

[Tims]

If there is a choice be between pinned or screwed in any knife related situation I would choose screwed 100% of the time.

[JD Spydo]

I'm not sure about that claim, but I STRONGLY prefer screw construction for the ability to adjust tension, take down to clean/lube, and customize if that's your thing. I really wish the Manix LW was screw construction. It's the only thing I don't like about that model. I'm hoping they switch over soon before any new exclusives, sprints, or salts are released. I'd sell my current Manix LW and buy a new one if they CQI'd it in the Blue/BD1 model.

I completely agree. With the exception of some of the Salt Series units I think all of the premium Spyders should have "screw" construction instead of pins and/or rivets. I too agree that it is nice to be able to disassemble to do extensive cleaning, lubrication or any other minor repairs or adjustments. I do believe that most of the guys here on the Forum based on the discussions I've had with them are mechanically inclined enough to where they can be trusted to work on their knives.

This is one reason I've always admired the GOLDEN, CO USA Earth made Spyders is that most of them do have screw construction. Oh how I wish my companion folder had screw construction. It is an older ATS-55 Stainless handled, full SE RESCUE model and I would love to be able to take it apart for various reasons.

[The Deacon]

Both construction methods have their pros and cons.

Screws allow adjustment and disassembly for cleaning, and also allows for easy customization. However, screws can loosen and even fall out if the user does not periodically check them. Besides which, as has been proven on this forum hundreds of times, not everyone is competent to operate a screwdriver.

Pinned construction allows a more elegant look, but precludes tinkering and makes scale replacement difficult or impossible. A pinned pivot also makes the knife more suceptable to side-to-side blade play if the knife is used for prying. Strength, when used as a knife, is more a function of fastener diameter and material than fastener type.

Screw construction is relatively new to the knife world, at least as the norm. Few folding knives made more than 40 years ago were put together with screws. A few may have used a screw for the pivot, but "all screw" construction was rare, if it existed at all. Personally I strongly prefer pinned construction on bolstered knives, screws on non bolstered knives I want to have customized with new scales, and don't care one way or the other on non bolstered knives I intend to use "as is".

[Evil D]

Pinned construction allows for a thinner knife overall.

I'm thinking that one solid piece of steel (a pin) is stronger than 3 pieces screwed together, so maybe at the very limit when things start to break there may be some truth to this. I also think if there is any truth to it that it's one of those "splitting hairs" arguments that will never really matter in the real world, and that the advantage of screw construction heavily outweighs whatever strength advantage pins can offer. The ability to adjust the entire knife is by itself an advantage worth sacrificing whatever small difference in strength there may be.

[soc_monki]

I like screws. I like pins. If I like a knife I don't care how it's constructed as long as it's done well. My Manix LW is a great knife, and I dont mind the pins at all. I've never even adjusted the pivot, it's action is near perfect. If it ever needs cleaning I'll wash it out or spray some compressed air in the pivot and keep on using it. If something happens I'll send it to Colorado and have it worked on.

I do like taking my knives apart, but pinned construction has been proven to be reliable and robust.

[Woodpuppy]

I liked to tinker more as a kid and young adult. For the most part I don’t much anymore, too many other responsibilities. I experienced one downside to pinned construction with my first spyderco, a Worker. I dropped it pivot end down while closed, and the lip of the scale dented. I didn’t notice the dent unfortunately, just that it was suddenly harder to open. The act of opening the blade past that dent spread the pivot and the knife was forever loose side to side, which was... sad. Screwed construction would have allowed repair.

[steelcity16]

I liked to tinker more as a kid and young adult. For the most part I don’t much anymore, too many other responsibilities. I experienced one downside to pinned construction with my first spyderco, a Worker. I dropped it pivot end down while closed, and the lip of the scale dented. I didn’t notice the dent unfortunately, just that it was suddenly harder to open. The act of opening the blade past that dent spread the pivot and the knife was forever loose side to side, which was... sad. Screwed construction would have allowed repair.

Had a similar situation on an older Native. Never could get it right so I sold it. Screws for the win!

[steelcity16]

Aside from clip preferences (wire, deep carry, tip up carry), steel preferences (Salt steels and tools steels), and scale (FRN or Peel Ply G10) preferences, I really believe most models are unbelievably well executed and thought out and I have little else to nitpick.

But if there were two things about any knives that I believe deserve a CQI, it is screw construction on the Manix LW, and spine and choil jimping on the Lil Native. I really think these models would be improved immensely with these changes.

[Albatross]

Buck has done pinned knives for decades. If it was bad, I don't think the 110 would still be around. The argument is just percieved toughness and longevity. Weren't the original Delicas and Enduras pinned? There are people still using the first generation knives to this day.

[MichaelScott]

Besides which, as has been proven on this forum hundreds of times, not everyone is competent to operate a screwdriver.

My Spydercos require inspection on a regular basis to ensure all the screws are tight. Not fond of that. My Great Eastern Cutlery knives, being traditional slip joints are all pinned. I’ve never had an issue with them. And, should one develop a pin issue, I will merely send it back for repair under warranty.

Nothing wrong with quality screw construction but it does encourage tinkering and one must accept the consequences.

[Evil D]

Besides which, as has been proven on this forum hundreds of times, not everyone is competent to operate a screwdriver.

My Spydercos require inspection on a regular basis to ensure all the screws are tight. Not fond of that. My Great Eastern Cutlery knives, being traditional slip joints are all pinned. I’ve never had an issue with them. And, should one develop a pin issue, I will merely send it back for repair under warranty.

Nothing wrong with quality screw construction but it does encourage tinkering and one must accept the consequences.

The problem is, Spyderco has tried to prevent this but got chastised for using red loctite. Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

[steelcity16]

Besides which, as has been proven on this forum hundreds of times, not everyone is competent to operate a screwdriver.

My Spydercos require inspection on a regular basis to ensure all the screws are tight. Not fond of that. My Great Eastern Cutlery knives, being traditional slip joints are all pinned. I’ve never had an issue with them. And, should one develop a pin issue, I will merely send it back for repair under warranty.

Nothing wrong with quality screw construction but it does encourage tinkering and one must accept the consequences.

The problem is, Spyderco has tried to prevent this but got chastised for using red loctite. Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

Blue loctite is the answer. Keeps screws in place, but easy to remove if you need to. Glad they stopped using red.

[ugaarguy]

Besides which, as has been proven on this forum hundreds of times, not everyone is competent to operate a screwdriver.

My Spydercos require inspection on a regular basis to ensure all the screws are tight. Not fond of that. My Great Eastern Cutlery knives, being traditional slip joints are all pinned. I’ve never had an issue with them. And, should one develop a pin issue, I will merely send it back for repair under warranty.

Nothing wrong with quality screw construction but it does encourage tinkering and one must accept the consequences.

The problem is, Spyderco has tried to prevent this but got chastised for using red loctite. Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

And there's nothing stopping the end user from applying red loctite if the blue isn't strong enough for their needs. It's much like the intentionally sharp opening hole edges - leave alone if you like more purchase, easy to knock down with a ceramic rod if you want it smoother. The reverse isn't true.

[Evil D]

We reeeeally do not need to make this another asinine debate about loctite guys...we have been there and beat a whole ranch full of horses to death over it. The POINT was that preferences vary and just like the screw vs pin debate there are pros and cons. Whether you like red loctite or not is irrelevant, you can't deny that screws backed out less frequently when it was used, and that was the point I was making.

[ugaarguy]

We reeeeally do not need to make this another asinine debate about loctite guys...we have been there and beat a whole ranch full of horses to death over it. The POINT was that preferences vary and just like the screw vs pin debate there are pros and cons. Whether you like red loctite or not is irrelevant, you can't deny that screws backed out less frequently when it was used, and that was the point I was making.

Well using blue loctite greatly reduces the frequency of stripped screws and/or destroyed screw heads AND it still doesn't stop users who need red loctite from applying it themselves. MY POINT is that going blue to red is far easier than going red to blue.