Cruwear What is the problem?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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steelcity16
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#21

Post by steelcity16 »

Surfingringo wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:30 am

I do think they missed an opportunity a couple of years ago with this steel. When Maxamet was announced as a regular production steel and Cruwear came in a couple of sprints, I feel like they might have got that backwards. Maxamet would have made for great sprint and Cruwear would make an outstanding regular production option. A balanced steel like Cruwear that offers some toughness and sharpening advantages and still retains a high level of corrosion resistance would be a great way to satisfy a lot of folks tool steel appetite without the risk of using a difficult to machine, rust prone steel for regular production.

Couldn't agree more. Cruwear and S110V covers a lot more users than S110V and Maxamet.
:bug-white-red CRU-CARTA THE SEKI MODELS! :bug-white-red AND BRING US THE DODO-FLY! :bug-white-red
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#22

Post by bearfacedkiller »

I would rather see S110V go than Maxamet.

S30V, Cruwear and Maxamet would be the trifecta.
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steelcity16
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#23

Post by steelcity16 »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:24 am
I would rather see S110V go than Maxamet.

S30V, Cruwear and Maxamet would be the trifecta.

Yeah, I do agree with you here, but Maxamet is quite a bit more expensive, and there are obviously still challenges with it as there still aren't production PM2s and Para 3s yet. And I like Blurple G10. Cruwear with Blurple G10 would have been the ultimate production combo for me. I'd own them all.
:bug-white-red CRU-CARTA THE SEKI MODELS! :bug-white-red AND BRING US THE DODO-FLY! :bug-white-red
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#24

Post by wrdwrght »

Does Spyderco have stockpiles of Cruwear and Maxamet it’s holding back to torture us?
-Marc (pocketing an M4 Sage5 today)

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#25

Post by TomAiello »

I would personally rather see s30v go than either s110v or Maxamet, but that would leave no "consumer grade" standard steel.

I second someone's recommendation of XHP earlier in this thread. It's another steel that I think is vastly underrated because it's no longer a "new, shiny thing."
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#26

Post by Catamount123 »

I’d be happy to see XHP replace S30V, I just don’t think it's likely to happen.
I don't get people who only carry one knife :thinking ;)
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#27

Post by spyderg »

I like s30v just fine but the more Cruwear the better! I’ve already said for me, the only improvement that I’d make on the Smock is Cruwear.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#28

Post by Tucson Tom »

It is important to distinguish between what is actually better, and what people perceive as better (or as "cooler").

Perception, not truth, is what sells things, including knives.

So if the perception is that S30V is a ho-hum mediocre steel, then you will lose sales, no matter how great S30V actually is.

To get specific about this, I am looking at the Native Chief. It is offered in S30V and my overall first impression is ho-hum. If it was offered in 20CV I would already have placed a pre-order. The same would be true if it was offered in Cruwear. But I am a steel maniac I guess and what steel is offered is a big factor in my buying decisions. Joe average knife-buyer is probably driven by overall design, how cool it looks, etc. and that may account for 90 percent of the sales of a different model.

As for Cruwear versus Maxamet, I agree with all that has been said. I think offering Cruwear in lieu of Maxamet for regular production makes great sense and reserving Maxamet for the rare sprint. It is interesting that Spyderco even considers offering a non-stainless steel like Maxamet in the regular production line-up. Actually, I would take M4 as readily as Cruwear instead of Maxamet.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#29

Post by Wartstein »

Catamount123 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:10 am
I’d be happy to see XHP replace S30V, I just don’t think it's likely to happen.
As much as I like S30V and even hope it will remain Spydercos main higher end steel: Replacing it with XHP at least would not bother me (and that's not true for almost any other steel).

The XHP in my Chap really has impressed me so far. For me it sharpens as easy as S30V, but seems to hold an edge a bit longer. No chipping (as it also is with S30V in my use).

I've deliberately tested my Chap (in XHP of course) quite hard and quite long in especially woodcraft, carving, twisting the blade in hardwood and so on. Actually I wanted to see how good the thin BLADE would take the use and abuse (amazingly well, the Chap really is much more than "just" a gentlemans folder).
But as a "sideproduct" I was surprised, how well the EDGE held it's sharpness. Better than S30V as far as I could tell.
That said, honestly I can't exactly distinguish to what extent properties of a blade are due to the particular steel or to thickness, grind, particular kind of use....
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#30

Post by TomAiello »

Tucson Tom wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:49 am
It is interesting that Spyderco even considers offering a non-stainless steel like Maxamet in the regular production line-up. Actually, I would take M4 as readily as Cruwear instead of Maxamet.
Lots of manufacturers offer D2 in standard production, and that's not stainless.

I'm actually kind of "ho-hum" about M4. I'd much rather have Maxamet.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#31

Post by archangel »

TomAiello wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:20 am
Tucson Tom wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:49 am
It is interesting that Spyderco even considers offering a non-stainless steel like Maxamet in the regular production line-up. Actually, I would take M4 as readily as Cruwear instead of Maxamet.
Lots of manufacturers offer D2 in standard production, and that's not stainless.

I'm actually kind of "ho-hum" about M4. I'd much rather have Maxamet.

Do you REALLY think Maxamet will ever return? When was the last time a batch of Maxamet PM2s or Para3s hit shelves, 2 years ago? I tend to think that Maxamet's dead... Sal, prove me wrong please.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#32

Post by wrdwrght »

Wasn’t there talk in which Sal was involved not long ago about a Maxamet PM2 sprint?
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#33

Post by Albatross »

archangel wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:28 am
TomAiello wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:20 am
Tucson Tom wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:49 am
It is interesting that Spyderco even considers offering a non-stainless steel like Maxamet in the regular production line-up. Actually, I would take M4 as readily as Cruwear instead of Maxamet.
Lots of manufacturers offer D2 in standard production, and that's not stainless.

I'm actually kind of "ho-hum" about M4. I'd much rather have Maxamet.

Do you REALLY think Maxamet will ever return? When was the last time a batch of Maxamet PM2s or Para3s hit shelves, 2 years ago? I tend to think that Maxamet's dead... Sal, prove me wrong please.
They're listed in the 2019 catalog. I can't find it right now, but I remember Sal saying, something along the lines of, "if it's in the catalog, it will be coming".
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archangel
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#34

Post by archangel »

I remember this too. I will be happy to have been proven wrong. But my faith is struggling, after such a long time...
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
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Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#35

Post by vivi »

Extra330SC wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:41 am
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:15 am
Vivi wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:17 pm
Seriously S30V is not good enough anymore.
Couldn't disagree more.
I 2nd this. Say in another 5 years, something like Cruwear, M4, M390 becomes the standard steel from Spyderco...will everyone complain that's no longer good enough because something new and fancy has now been released?? But, I've come to expect to see posts like this on a daily basis now and it's tiring to even try to debate or argue that S30V is a fine steel and shouldn't hinder someone from buying a particular model.
99% of end users wouldn't know the difference between S30V and Cruwear if the blade wasn't marked (except noted above about rust issues ) on a folding knife. I usually just ignore these type of posts Rick...especially when they start talking about what's best for the company. :rolleyes:

James
I have a theory that if Spyderco were less honest and ran a batch of knives in S30V labelled as some new exotic alloy, people would love how it performs.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#36

Post by blues »

Vivi wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm

I have a theory that if Spyderco were less honest and ran a batch of knives in S30V labelled as some new exotic alloy, people would love how it performs.
I think that goes without saying. I was typing a similar reply yesterday and decided to abort...didn't want folks thinking I was being too cynical.

But I completely agree.
- Retired from the chase -
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#37

Post by Doeswhateveraspidercan »

Vivi wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm
Extra330SC wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:41 am
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:15 am
Vivi wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:17 pm


Couldn't disagree more.
I 2nd this. Say in another 5 years, something like Cruwear, M4, M390 becomes the standard steel from Spyderco...will everyone complain that's no longer good enough because something new and fancy has now been released?? But, I've come to expect to see posts like this on a daily basis now and it's tiring to even try to debate or argue that S30V is a fine steel and shouldn't hinder someone from buying a particular model.
99% of end users wouldn't know the difference between S30V and Cruwear if the blade wasn't marked (except noted above about rust issues ) on a folding knife. I usually just ignore these type of posts Rick...especially when they start talking about what's best for the company. :rolleyes:

James
I have a theory that if Spyderco were less honest and ran a batch of knives in S30V labelled as some new exotic alloy, people would love how it performs.
I could not disagree more ;)

Anyone who has used other steels can tell immediately by the way it cuts and how swiftly it looses a truly sharp edge in favor of a Blah working edge.

S30V IS NOT A GOOD STEEL!

It is a great steel, there are however better steels out their an Cruwear is one of them.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#38

Post by David R »

Vivi wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 1:05 am
Wartstein wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:23 am
Guys, since I my steel knowledge and -experience is rather limited compared to most of yours (and that's no "humblebrag", but just a fact), and I never had a Cruwear-, but sure S30V knives (and I'm totally fine with that steel):

Let's say, Cruwear and S 30V were both similarly new steels to Spyderco-knives, and let's say each knife that came in Cruwear would also come in S30V (so the "new-and-shiny-" vs "old-and-boring-" factor was eliminated):

What would be in-use-really-noticeable-real-world advantages of Cruwear over S30V? Or, to put it better, what would be really noticeable DIFFERENCES that maybe would be a pro for one, and a con for the other person?

I know a bit already about Cruwear of course, and could do a search myself to get further Information about it (and I will later), but no time right now So maybe someone could be so kind and teach a bit? :)
In normal EDC use the only differences you're likely to observe is cruwear rusts more easily and S30V takes a bit more effort to sharpen. The toughness shouldn't come into play for most folks considering these are 3" folders, not choppers.
I had a reply in my head. This was it. For some specific use Cru-Wear could be a better choice. Hard to see how I'd notice much difference in a folder. And I live in the rainy part of the NW U.S. Stainless is often preferred in a folder.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#39

Post by vivi »

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:27 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm
Extra330SC wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:41 am
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:15 am


I 2nd this. Say in another 5 years, something like Cruwear, M4, M390 becomes the standard steel from Spyderco...will everyone complain that's no longer good enough because something new and fancy has now been released?? But, I've come to expect to see posts like this on a daily basis now and it's tiring to even try to debate or argue that S30V is a fine steel and shouldn't hinder someone from buying a particular model.
99% of end users wouldn't know the difference between S30V and Cruwear if the blade wasn't marked (except noted above about rust issues ) on a folding knife. I usually just ignore these type of posts Rick...especially when they start talking about what's best for the company. :rolleyes:

James
I have a theory that if Spyderco were less honest and ran a batch of knives in S30V labelled as some new exotic alloy, people would love how it performs.
I could not disagree more ;)

Anyone who has used other steels can tell immediately by the way it cuts and how swiftly it looses a truly sharp edge in favor of a Blah working edge.

S30V IS NOT A GOOD STEEL!

It is a great steel, there are however better steels out their an Cruwear is one of them.
In which way is S30V "NOT A GOOD STEEL?"

https://youtu.be/hl3n-BtLoaI

In this video I carve wood, baton wood, chop wood, cut up different foods, and slice a pop can in half. My S30V blade, despite being reprofiled to a thinner, weaker angle, still cleanly shaved and sliced paper afterward.

I'm not sure how performance like that indicates I own a bad knife steel.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

#40

Post by Doeswhateveraspidercan »

I have found S30V not to be trustworthy when it comes to working in the yard sweating to death 100 percent humidity high 90’s here in FL.

I have had it Rust and pit. I have also had M390 rust as well but never pit.

So for any real outdoors work carry LC200N or H1 both Have proven Rust Proof.

Cruwear has proven to be more resistant to corrosion that my K390 Police 4 by a huge margin, and pretty even with CTS-XHP.

Cruwear in my use is more corrosion resistant than M4 as well.

I can not say enough good things about Cruwear Today I took down a huge amount of cardboard filling two large wheeled recycle bins. After cleaning tape gunk it is still razor sharp.

Mind you this was not with my Military or PM2 but a Para3 so that little blade took a breathing.

The grain of the metal is smoother than S30V it really can be felt when slicing and even more so when going through receipt paper.

S30V is a great steel no doubt about it, but I like many others have learned of others and wish to purchase Cruwear instead.

Supply it and we will buy it.

I like the looks of the Native Chief But am unlikely to buy it in S30V. CTS-XHP or Cruwear instant purchase even if it costs more.

The only thing keeping me from buying a Manix2 XL is it is not in Cruwear and had the backlock Manix been in Cruwear I would have purchased one as well.

All this use of S30V strikes me as a business commitment being fulfilled because the people that make these designs are even worse than us when it comes to knives. Heck Eric grew up in a playpen around this stuff, explains his awesome designs and yeah I just know he is a steel junkie :)
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