Cruwear What is the problem?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat May 11, 2019 4:57 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:44 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:27 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm
Extra330SC wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:41 am


99% of end users wouldn't know the difference between S30V and Cruwear if the blade wasn't marked (except noted above about rust issues ) on a folding knife. I usually just ignore these type of posts Rick...especially when they start talking about what's best for the company. :rolleyes:

James
I have a theory that if Spyderco were less honest and ran a batch of knives in S30V labelled as some new exotic alloy, people would love how it performs.
I could not disagree more ;)

Anyone who has used other steels can tell immediately by the way it cuts and how swiftly it looses a truly sharp edge in favor of a Blah working edge.

S30V IS NOT A GOOD STEEL!

It is a great steel, there are however better steels out their an Cruwear is one of them.
In which way is S30V "NOT A GOOD STEEL?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl3n-BtLoaI

In this video I carve wood, baton wood, chop wood, cut up different foods, and slice a pop can in half. My S30V blade, despite being reprofiled to a thinner, weaker angle, still cleanly shaved and sliced paper afterward.

I'm not sure how performance like that indicates I own a bad knife steel.
I never said you owned a bad knife steel.

Nice video BTW. Had that Knife been in Cruwear after seeing it the first time I would have bought one just from this video alone, love the design, bored with the steel
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sat May 11, 2019 5:06 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:56 pm
I have found S30V not to be trustworthy when it comes to working in the yard sweating to death 100 percent humidity high 90’s here in FL.
That can be said about basically any steel outside of H1/LC. Try DLC blades from Spyderco, they might change your perspective. I'd also rust bare S30V if I carried it all summer, but my DLC Manix has never rusted anywhere.

I'm confused why you'd be asking for less corrosion resistant steels if this is how you feel about S30V?


Cruwear has proven to be more resistant to corrosion that my K390 Police 4 by a huge margin, and pretty even with CTS-XHP.
But it will rust much faster than S30V. It's weird that you'll ignore corrosion concerns with one steel but not the other?
I can not say enough good things about Cruwear Today I took down a huge amount of cardboard filling two large wheeled recycle bins. After cleaning tape gunk it is still razor sharp.
I recently cut a little more than that in one go with my VG10 Street Bowie. Still takes arm hairs off with ease.

The grain of the metal is smoother than S30V it really can be felt when slicing and even more so when going through receipt paper.
I believe the feel comes down more to sharpening and grit finish than grain structure.
S30V is a great steel no doubt about it, but I like many others have learned of others and wish to purchase Cruwear instead.
I'm confused as to why.

You don't like S30V because it rusts. But Cruwear rusts more easily.

You don't like S30V because of a coarse feeling grain when cutting, but it can be given a more polished edge and cut perfectly smooth every time.

You alternate between saying S30V "is not a good steel" and saying "it is a great steel." ?

The only thing keeping me from buying a Manix2 XL is it is not in Cruwear and had the backlock Manix been in Cruwear I would have purchased one as well.
So the knife in my video showed unacceptable performance in your eyes? Can you elaborate on how it failed to meet your standards?

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Sat May 11, 2019 5:07 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:57 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:44 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:27 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm


I have a theory that if Spyderco were less honest and ran a batch of knives in S30V labelled as some new exotic alloy, people would love how it performs.
I could not disagree more ;)

Anyone who has used other steels can tell immediately by the way it cuts and how swiftly it looses a truly sharp edge in favor of a Blah working edge.

S30V IS NOT A GOOD STEEL!

It is a great steel, there are however better steels out their an Cruwear is one of them.
In which way is S30V "NOT A GOOD STEEL?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl3n-BtLoaI

In this video I carve wood, baton wood, chop wood, cut up different foods, and slice a pop can in half. My S30V blade, despite being reprofiled to a thinner, weaker angle, still cleanly shaved and sliced paper afterward.

I'm not sure how performance like that indicates I own a bad knife steel.
I never said you owned a bad knife steel.

Nice video BTW. Had that Knife been in Cruwear after seeing it the first time I would have bought one just from this video alone, love the design, bored with the steel
Saying "S30V IS NOT A GOOD STEEL!" might give folks the impression that you're calling their knives ones with bad steel ;)

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 11, 2019 5:15 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:56 pm
....

Cruwear has proven to be more resistant to corrosion that my K390 Police 4 by a huge margin, and pretty even with CTS-XHP.

.....

I like the looks of the Native Chief But am unlikely to buy it in S30V. CTS-XHP or Cruwear instant purchase even if it costs more.
....
May I go a bit of topic and ask one or two questions concerning your statements above?:

- I have only one knife in CTS HXP (Chap LW). I really like S30V, but CTS HXP feels like a (very) slightly better version of it in my limited experience. But the difference for me is in no way big enough that I would get a particular knife in CTS HXP, but NOT in S30V.
Do you really feel CTS HXP is that much better and if, in what capacities?

- You say, the corrosion resistance of Cruwear and CTS HXP are about the same. Since S30V is said to be MORE corrosion resistant than Cruwear, S30V should also be more corrosion resistant than CTS HXP. Is that true in your experience? I personally can't tell (yet), for I don't have my CTS HXP Chap long enough for that.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat May 11, 2019 5:18 pm

Sorry caps lock on phone if you look right under that I said it is a great steel, as in nt just good but great.

As to why I give S30V grief over pitting and rusting it is because it is the one I believed in and trusted and it rusted, hey a rhyme :)

After that I was very careful and only carry LC200N or H1 in environments where knives will rust in the pocket like my Para3 in S30V did.

I never carry any other steels in the pocket now doing yard work.

Honestly it is a great steel with many good qualities. When it comes to the way it feels when cutting I guess you are right it has to do with brown stoning it because it seems to cut better by not going to the white stones.

BTW When I saw your video I was like man I wish I could hang out with VIVi and do some of that stuff with him the knife showed great performance.

Spyderco should pay for that kind of advertisement. Confession I actually almost bought a Manix2 XL After watching it.
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat May 11, 2019 5:21 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:15 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:56 pm
....

Cruwear has proven to be more resistant to corrosion that my K390 Police 4 by a huge margin, and pretty even with CTS-XHP.

.....

I like the looks of the Native Chief But am unlikely to buy it in S30V. CTS-XHP or Cruwear instant purchase even if it costs more.
....
May I go a bit of topic and ask one or two questions concerning your statements above?:

- I have only one knife in CTS HXP (Chap LW). I really like S30V, but CTS HXP feels like a (very) slightly better version of it in my limited experience. But the difference for me is in no way big enough that I would get a particular knife in CTS HXP, but NOT in S30V.
Do you really feel CTS HXP is that much better and if, in what capacities?

- You say, the corrosion resistance of Cruwear and CTS HXP are about the same. Since S30V is said to be MORE corrosion resistant than Cruwear, S30V should also be more corrosion resistant than CTS HXP. Is that true in your experience? I personally can't tell (yet), for I don't have my CTS HXP Chap long enough for that.
It’s all about being picky now have too many knives so getting more selective. I go by the feel of the steel now and easy of sharpening to super sharp and how long it holds this way that’s all.
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 11, 2019 5:45 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:21 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:15 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:56 pm
....

Cruwear has proven to be more resistant to corrosion that my K390 Police 4 by a huge margin, and pretty even with CTS-XHP.

.....

I like the looks of the Native Chief But am unlikely to buy it in S30V. CTS-XHP or Cruwear instant purchase even if it costs more.
....
May I go a bit of topic and ask one or two questions concerning your statements above?:

- I have only one knife in CTS HXP (Chap LW). I really like S30V, but CTS HXP feels like a (very) slightly better version of it in my limited experience. But the difference for me is in no way big enough that I would get a particular knife in CTS HXP, but NOT in S30V.
Do you really feel CTS HXP is that much better and if, in what capacities?

- You say, the corrosion resistance of Cruwear and CTS HXP are about the same. Since S30V is said to be MORE corrosion resistant than Cruwear, S30V should also be more corrosion resistant than CTS HXP. Is that true in your experience? I personally can't tell (yet), for I don't have my CTS HXP Chap long enough for that.
It’s all about being picky now have too many knives so getting more selective. I go by the feel of the steel now and easy of sharpening to super sharp and how long it holds this way that’s all.
Thanks for your reply!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sat May 11, 2019 5:48 pm

Giving me a headache...not really making much sense. Totally agree with all vivi's points here. Wanting a non stainless steel, yet complaining about S30V in the Florida heat and humidity. Wanting something easy to sharpen, yet only loving the latest and greatest super steels. None of it makes any sense.
Currently have 20 :spyder: 's in 14 different steels.

-Rick

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 11, 2019 5:56 pm

Honestly, this thread leaves me a bit confused:

Thinking about it, I remember quite some posts on this forum where people absolutely want Cruwear, often INSTEAD of S30V (lately in the Smock-thread for example as far as I remember).

Still, as for now I haven't really read anything that would explain to me why Cruwear is that much better in a folder than S30V.. rather a bit worse even, since it is apperently less corrosion resistant - ?

No offense to anyone really! As said, I never had any Cruwear knife, and so no personal opinion based on experience, I just know that S30V is totally fine for me.

But what makes Cruwear that much better in the real world remains unclear to me. Maybe I'm missing something..?
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Surfingringo » Sat May 11, 2019 6:00 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:21 pm

....It’s all about being picky now have too many knives so getting more selective. I go by the feel of the steel now and easy of sharpening to super sharp and how long it holds this way that’s all.
Now this I can relate to. You've gotten a little bit of pushback on the original post but I'd wager that most of the folks challenging some of your positions actually share your love for Cruwear. I certainly do. I just like to be realistic about how steels actually perform and why I like them. Usually the biggest differences I can tell in steels are in their corrosion resistance and sharpening response. Differences in wear resistance are much harder to detect in real world use. Sometimes a steel with better sharpening response gives me the perception of better edge performance because I am usually starting from a slightly higher level of initial sharpness. That's a good thing obviously but it should be noted that it is a perceived increase rather than an actual increase in edge retention.

Anyway, what I can agree with for sure is that I too have too many knives and I sometimes need a little "new steel" motivation to push me into another purchase. It's not that s30v doesn't do everything that I need a steel to do, its that a knife in a new (to me) steel offers me a bit more value because I enjoying trying different steels.

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Surfingringo » Sat May 11, 2019 6:12 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:56 pm
Honestly, this thread leaves me a bit confused:

Thinking about it, I remember quite some posts on this forum where people absolutely want Cruwear, often INSTEAD of S30V (lately in the Smock-thread for example as far as I remember).

Still, as for now I haven't really read anything that would explain to me why Cruwear is that much better in a folder than S30V.. rather a bit worse even, since it is apperently less corrosion resistant - ?

No offense to anyone really! As said, I never had any Cruwear knife, and so no personal opinion based on experience, I just know that S30V is totally fine for me.

But what makes Cruwear that much better in the real world remains unclear to me. Maybe I'm missing something..?

I can't speak for anyone else but the main thing I love about Cruwear is how well it responds to sharpening. First it sharpens very easily. I heard someone say once that the steel "wants to get sharp" and I think that is a pretty good way of saying it. It just sharpens up quickly and easily, much like a softer steel would, and takes a very high level of sharpness at any given grit. The second aspect that is even more impressive is the TYPE of edge it takes. I find that Cruwear takes a VERY aggressive edge at any given grit. Much more aggressive than s30v, s90v or s110v. If I reprofile all of those steels and then microbevel with the brown SM stones I find that the cruwear bites more firmly into beard hair (sharpness as defined by apex width) but also has notably more "tooth" when tested on the thumb, or the three finger test. So I end up with an edge that is not only more aggressive but also marginally sharper? That's a win/win for me.

That type of sharpening response is a big deal to me, but what do I have to give up in order to get that? A little bit of corrosion resistance. Is it worth it? It depends. What type of work will I be doing? Saltwater use? Lots of sweat? Do I want to take a little more time to maintain? The answers vary from day to day for me and that's why I want Cruwear in some but not all of my knives.

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 11, 2019 6:15 pm

Surfingringo wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:00 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:21 pm

....It’s all about being picky now have too many knives so getting more selective. I go by the feel of the steel now and easy of sharpening to super sharp and how long it holds this way that’s all.
Now this I can relate to. You've gotten a little bit of pushback on the original post but I'd wager that most of the folks challenging some of your positions actually share your love for Cruwear. I certainly do. I just like to be realistic about how steels actually perform and why I like them. Usually the biggest differences I can tell in steels are in their corrosion resistance and sharpening response. Differences in wear resistance are much harder to detect in real world use. Sometimes a steel with better sharpening response gives me the perception of better edge performance because I am usually starting from a slightly higher level of initial sharpness. That's a good thing obviously but it should be noted that it is a perceived increase rather than an actual increase in edge retention.

Anyway, what I can agree with for sure is that I too have too many knives and I sometimes need a little "new steel" motivation to push me into another purchase. It's not that s30v doesn't do everything that I need a steel to do, its that a knife in a new (to me) steel offers me a bit more value because I enjoying trying different steels.
EDIT: "Surfgringo", I wrote the post below BEFORE reading your reply above to my previous post!!

I hear you, but relating to my post right above yours:
That's not what people are saying often times, but rather what Doeswhatever... (OP) states in his first, original post (Doeswhatever, no offense, I am just quoting you as an example for what imho quite some others also seem to think):

QUOTE: "Dear Spyderco just what may I ask is the issue with releasing more designs in Cruwear anyway? Seriously S30V is not good enough anymore. Cruwear is a far better steel on so many ways."

But from all I've read TILL NOW, I don't see why Cruwear should be "far better" than S30 V in a folder.

I'd honestly be interested in if there is something I am missing (and once more: I have absolutely no experience with Cruwear myself!)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Wartstein » Sat May 11, 2019 6:20 pm

Surfingringo wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:12 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:56 pm
Honestly, this thread leaves me a bit confused:

Thinking about it, I remember quite some posts on this forum where people absolutely want Cruwear, often INSTEAD of S30V (lately in the Smock-thread for example as far as I remember).

Still, as for now I haven't really read anything that would explain to me why Cruwear is that much better in a folder than S30V.. rather a bit worse even, since it is apperently less corrosion resistant - ?

No offense to anyone really! As said, I never had any Cruwear knife, and so no personal opinion based on experience, I just know that S30V is totally fine for me.

But what makes Cruwear that much better in the real world remains unclear to me. Maybe I'm missing something..?

I can't speak for anyone else but the main thing I love about Cruwear is how well it responds to sharpening. First it sharpens very easily. I heard someone say once that the steel "wants to get sharp" and I think that is a pretty good way of saying it. It just sharpens up quickly and easily, much like a softer steel would, and takes a very high level of sharpness at any given grit. The second aspect that is even more impressive is the TYPE of edge it takes. I find that Cruwear takes a VERY aggressive edge at any given grit. Much more aggressive than s30v, s90v or s110v. If I reprofile all of those steels and then microbevel with the brown SM stones I find that the cruwear bites more firmly into beard hair (sharpness as defined by apex width) but also has notably more "tooth" when tested on the thumb, or the three finger test. So I end up with an edge that is not only more aggressive but also marginally sharper? That's a win/win for me.

That type of sharpening response is a big deal to me, but what do I have to give up in order to get that? A little bit of corrosion resistance. Is it worth it? It depends. What type of work will I be doing? Saltwater use? Lots of sweat? Do I want to take a little more time to maintain? The answers vary from day to day for me and that's why I want Cruwear in some but not all of my knives.
Thanks, now that is really (to me) new and very valuable info!!
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Sharp Guy » Sat May 11, 2019 6:51 pm

I love Cruwear! But I also love S30V. Then again, I've never had a knife steel I didn't like. They're all good just different.
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby justjohn » Sat May 11, 2019 7:11 pm

I don't think Spyderco got to where they are (TOP DOG IMHO) by making the wrong business decisions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and desires, but the aroma of self-righteous indignation is starting to permeate some of these posts. And now back to the regularly scheduled programming. :D
- John

:spyder: "Spyderco"....nuff said! :spyder:

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Albatross » Sat May 11, 2019 7:29 pm

:cool:
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sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Tucson Tom » Sat May 11, 2019 8:05 pm

What "Surfingringo" has to say is right on.

A - I have too many knives, and am trying to be more careful and selective in how I spend my money, so a new and exciting steel is a significant factor in helping me talk myself into a new knife purchase.

B - Sharpening response is becoming more and more important to me all of the time. This is why Cruwear and 52100 are two of my favorite steels, they are eager to get sharp. People say similar things about VG10, but I haven't had much of a chance to check that out. But I'll pick an easy to sharpen steel over a steel with fantastic edge retention any time if that is the choice.

Also I recognize that catering to steel maniacs like some of us on the forum is not necessarily what will keep Spyderco in business. But I'll still voice my thoughts and opinions since I am sure they are recognized for just that and nothing more.

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat May 11, 2019 8:29 pm

Me too :)

Title of the thread was intentional to get a discussion going and hopefully remind Spyderco we have some pent up spending dollars for Cruwear and it looks like CTS-XHP AS WELL AS maxi-met.


@ Surfinggringo thanks for putting it into words better than I can. BTW Your knife the waterway is incredible and a perineal go to in the kitchen, it is such a good filet knife I even use it to now get this, Filet Mangos.
Last edited by Doeswhateveraspidercan on Sat May 11, 2019 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Baron Mind » Sat May 11, 2019 9:17 pm

So yea, the main draw of Cru-wear is how well it sharpens, but it has performance advantages as well. It is tougher, and has greater edge strength and stability, in large part due to lower carbide volume and a higher working hardness. It has a little less raw wear resistance, and less corrosion resistance. That makes Cru-wear more desirable to me, but s30v is no slouch.

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Re: Cruwear What is the problem?

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Sat May 11, 2019 9:22 pm

Opening line was also meant to cause controversy. But just look how many honest replies and invaluable input for Spyderco came from it.

Lastly I reserve the right to make sense only to myself and those who can comprehend. :) for mine is not the riddle of steel but the madness that comes from understanding it, as evidenced by the larger safety deposit box I recent had to lease from the bank for the knives not in rotation arrrrggghhhh. :)
I have spoken. :)


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