Replaceable blade folding mule

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.

Replaceable blade folding mule?

Yes
25
47%
No
18
34%
Maybe
10
19%
 
Total votes: 53

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 7992
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Doc Dan » Wed May 08, 2019 11:52 pm

"So when you suggest a model for a folding Mule Team, are you thinking a new complete knife for each steel or a knife that you would change the blade?

sal"

Sal mentioned this and I thought this is an idea worth discussing further. If we had a folding knife handle that we could simply change the blades on rather easily, this would reduce cost significantly, as all we would need to do is purchase another blade. If someone wanted two knives to test side by side, they could buy two handles, as they would normally have had to buy two knives otherwise, anyway. There is another big plus, here. It is a lot easier to sell it to the wife when you tell her you have to buy a replacement blade rather than tell her you want a new knife. Haha! :D

So, what do you all think of this idea?
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

"Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you."
(Roy Rogers)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
Wartstein
Member
Posts: 4122
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:06 am
Location: Salzburg, Austria, Europe

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Wartstein » Thu May 09, 2019 12:29 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:52 pm
"So when you suggest a model for a folding Mule Team, are you thinking a new complete knife for each steel or a knife that you would change the blade?

sal"

Sal mentioned this and I thought this is an idea worth discussing further. If we had a folding knife handle that we could simply change the blades on rather easily, this would reduce cost significantly, as all we would need to do is purchase another blade. If someone wanted two knives to test side by side, they could buy two handles, as they would normally have had to buy two knives otherwise, anyway. There is another big plus, here. It is a lot easier to sell it to the wife when you tell her you have to buy a replacement blade rather than tell her you want a new knife. Haha! :D

So, what do you all think of this idea?
Voted yes.

To be clear: I am not enough into steels and know way too little about this topic to be really DEEPLY interested in the Mule program, but IF such a program, the replacable blade idea is a good one.

But: Only under the premise that a) the blade swap can be done really easy and fast and b) the knife / lock up is still solid and strong
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

User avatar
Bloke
Member
Posts: 4154
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Bloke » Thu May 09, 2019 1:26 am

I think if we must have a Folding Mule this seems like a logical option but as with all the other polls of late the $64,000 question is; what platform?

I haven’t responded to any of the polls for a few reasons. For one, I’d prefer a fixed blade along the lines of a Sprig or Waterway and have no interest in short, squat, door stop blades.

As far a Backlocks and Slipjoints go I’m inclined to think tolerances need to be extremely tight in order to make them interchangeable and would ultimately lead to all sorts of bitching about vertical play, lockbars sitting high, sitting low, etc. etc.

Linerlocks would likely be more forgiving but you can bet there’d be bitching about lock up percentage, lock stick ... And it goes on.

Perhaps a Friction Folder would work, but who knows?

Personally, I think as simple as the idea of making interchangeable blades sounds, Spyderco stand to make a rod for their own back.

I vote: Indifferent.

Just my $AU0.02c worth. :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

User avatar
rabbitanarchy14
Member
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:25 am
Location: Michigan, USA, Earth
Contact:

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Thu May 09, 2019 1:38 am

I voted yes but I would have to be open to color option handles for it too. As I would like a 3" platform like a para 3 or domino or sage. With different steel blades, and different color handles with liners no more Sprint's. Just several blade options and scale options. Build it how you want it.
In-Possession - Para 3 S35VN, Para 3 G10 M390 Red, Dice XHP, Lil Native S30V BL, Manix 2 M390 BR, MKM Voxnaes Isonzo N690Co, Benchmade 555HGBlu, Ontario Rat 2 Gr G10
On-Deck - Manix 2 Cruwear, Sage 5, Brouwer, Cat BD1N, Lil Native compression 20CV/M390
Loved Steels - Cruwear, M390 Family, S35VN, BD1N, XHP, S30V, N690Co

User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby ZrowsN1s » Thu May 09, 2019 2:24 am

Don't locks and blades have to mated? Even with slip joints? I'm still not clear how this would work.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

User avatar
steelcity16
Member
Posts: 3323
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:34 am

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby steelcity16 » Thu May 09, 2019 5:18 am

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:24 am
Don't locks and blades have to mated? Even with slip joints? I'm still not clear how this would work.

This is a concern of mine as well. And id rather pay a little more for complete knives. I dont want to be switching blades around all the time. Voted no.
:spyder: CRU-CARTA THEM ALL! :spyder:

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20779
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Evil D » Thu May 09, 2019 6:31 am

Not my thing. I'd end up with a bunch of blades without handles or end up buying extra handles to go with them, in which case I'd just assume buy complete knives.

I'm missing the whole appeal of a folding mule. The idea is to make inexpensive knives for testing, and a fixed blade is absolutely hands down better for testing and it's the cheapest way to sell them. Then if the mule gets enough traction and positive feedback we always see those steels in popular folders so those who want a folding mule basically get one in the end, every Military made with a steel after S30V was the standard steel can be seen as a folding mule.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 7992
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Doc Dan » Thu May 09, 2019 6:48 am

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:24 am
Don't locks and blades have to mated? Even with slip joints? I'm still not clear how this would work.
I do not know how it would work, either. Sal brought it up so I thought it worth talking about. He is the knife engineer so he would have to sort all of this out, if this became a reality.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

"Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you."
(Roy Rogers)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
Albatross
Member
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:13 pm

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Albatross » Thu May 09, 2019 8:58 am

Albatross wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 3:08 pm
ferider wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 2:46 pm
As I'm not really interested in the UKPK (too small), let me post here.

From Sal's comment above, it doesn't feel like a Mule folder would make business sense.

Now:

1) I have a couple (non-Spyderco) folders that can easily be field-assembled/disassembled. These are Ti frame-locks, typically.
2) One can safely assume that people buying a Mule would feel somehow comfortable doing 1)
3) Of all the Spydercos that I've maintained, the Military is my favorite, and the Ti Military probably the easiest Spyderco to assemble.

So how about Spyderco releases a Ti Military that can be assembled in the field (just needs different screws), and follows up with Military Mule blades (only) ? So you enter the program by buying the knife, and then, every so often, change the blade ?

Just a thought,

Roland.
Now that's a good idea. It should be even cheaper(per blade) than the fixed blade Mules were. Initial cost would be higher, but collectors and testers would save money in the long run.

There is one issue I foresee with this though; fitment. Sometimes a blade swap means blade play, since there will always be slight variances in the tolerances. This is probably enough to keep people from accepting the idea.

If it could be done in a way that guarantees no blade play, I would be in for every release. Possibly multiples of some too. I think the only model that would work, without blade play, is a Manix, with it's cbbl. If they used bearings, instead of washers, the recessed areas in the blade, could mean the bearings are held on the blade(somewhat), making swaps a matter of removing the pivot and changing out the blade. The metal assembly that houses the ball lock would probably need to be loosened, but not removed, to insert the blade/bearings/pivot. Hold the lock back, slide the blade/bearings in, add pivot. More complicated, but no blade play. If a lock position could be added, that held it open during swaps, this would make the Manix an unbeatable platform for a folding Mule.

This would be a lot of changes though. Re-tooling would be expensive, BUT this could end up it's own model, with some slight visual changes, and a new name. This would separate it from the standard Manix sold through dealers and make it easier for Spyderco to sell directly to it's customers.
From the Mule Team thread. This is the only thing I can think of to make sure the blades/locks work together, without play.
sal wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 pm

...But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of "deigning in the dark"...

sal

User avatar
PeaceInOurTime
Member
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:37 am

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby PeaceInOurTime » Thu May 09, 2019 9:46 am

I mentioned this in the other folding mule thread, but I think a friction folder makes sense in that one could easily swap blades by just by removing the pivot. You don't really have to worry about tolerances. They could even provide different blade lengths and handle options, like Spyderco's version of Legos. Not to mention more people would be able to carry it around the world in jurisdictions with strict knife laws.

There could be so many options for blade steel (obviously), handle size, handle material, handle ergonomics, etc. from the factory or after market.

User avatar
wrdwrght
Member
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:35 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby wrdwrght » Thu May 09, 2019 9:53 am

Two thoughts on swappable blades.

Imagine users who botch their knives when trying to center the blade or reduce its play. Some of them will be attracted to swappability for the novelty and become a W&R concern AND expense.

I like shooting .357 Magnums and have a few, including a vintage Dan Wesson 15.2 with three interchangeable barrel-lengths. After playing a little with my 2.5, 4 and 6 inch barrel, the novelty of swappability has faded and I have a 4-inch DW 15.2, even though the other barrels (and grips) are easy enough to swap in.

Still, curiosity can get the better of me, so I voted “Maybe”.
Marc <— a mere data-point

RECENT ARRIVAL: Maxamet PM2. ON RADAR: Lil’ Native slipjoint; Siren; PM2 tanto; SPY27 Para3; S45V PM2 sprint; Rex45 Native Chief sprint. IN DREAMS: V4E Military2 stop-lock; 4V Native Chief; Slysz Swayback; C27 serrated Jess Horn; Vanax Massad Ayoob (SE) sprint; LC200N Breeden Captain (recurve SE) sprint.

User avatar
Doc Dan
Member
Posts: 7992
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:25 am
Location: In a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity.

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Doc Dan » Thu May 09, 2019 10:22 am

PeaceInOurTime wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:46 am
I mentioned this in the other folding mule thread, but I think a friction folder makes sense in that one could easily swap blades by just by removing the pivot. You don't really have to worry about tolerances. They could even provide different blade lengths and handle options, like Spyderco's version of Legos. Not to mention more people would be able to carry it around the world in jurisdictions with strict knife laws.

There could be so many options for blade steel (obviously), handle size, handle material, handle ergonomics, etc. from the factory or after market.
Friction folders are not for me. I have had a couple and never cared for them. However, I know some people swear by them.
I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof! (John Adams regarding the White House)

"Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you."
(Roy Rogers)


NRA Life Member
Spydernation 0050

User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby ZrowsN1s » Thu May 09, 2019 11:19 am

Evil D wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:31 am
.....
I'm missing the whole appeal of a folding mule. The idea is to make inexpensive knives for testing, and a fixed blade is absolutely hands down better for testing and it's the cheapest way to sell them. Then if the mule gets enough traction and positive feedback we always see those steels in popular folders so those who want a folding mule basically get one in the end, every Military made with a steel after S30V was the standard steel can be seen as a folding mule.
For me the appeal is that more people will get to carry the steel into the real world for EDC testing. I don't own any Mules because it is not practical to carry a Fixed blade where I live for legal and other reasons. For people in the UK this is double.

By the time I got Handles on a regular mule I'd have spent over $100 dollars on a knife I couldn't carry outside of my house. That's a lot for just cutting up cardboard and other chores around the house. If I'm going to test a steel I need to be able to carry it.

And not every Mule steel makes it into the folders, and I at least would like to be able to try things and give feed back before the steel makes it into the regular line up or into sprints.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

User avatar
A.S.O.K.A
Member
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:20 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby A.S.O.K.A » Thu May 09, 2019 11:36 am

I voted "maybe" because if its a replacable blade on a not-so-sturdy handle, it would make for a terrible experience. But if its a well put together handle construction, then it would make for a great concept and better new chapter in the mule system
Every Steel Has Its Appeal :cool:

A.S.O.K.A Edge on Youtube

rangefinder
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:19 am

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby rangefinder » Thu May 09, 2019 11:49 am

It could also be something along the lines of the Havalon knives, where the pivot is permanently part of the knife and only the cutting edge gets replaced.

This avoids all the issues with the end user taking apart the knife to swap blades, trying to get the blade centered, etc. But it would only support testing the edge for cutting; it's not a design that would support batoning or similar stresses.

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20779
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Evil D » Thu May 09, 2019 11:56 am

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:19 am
Evil D wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:31 am
.....
I'm missing the whole appeal of a folding mule. The idea is to make inexpensive knives for testing, and a fixed blade is absolutely hands down better for testing and it's the cheapest way to sell them. Then if the mule gets enough traction and positive feedback we always see those steels in popular folders so those who want a folding mule basically get one in the end, every Military made with a steel after S30V was the standard steel can be seen as a folding mule.
For me the appeal is that more people will get to carry the steel into the real world for EDC testing. I don't own any Mules because it is not practical to carry a Fixed blade where I live for legal and other reasons. For people in the UK this is double.

By the time I got Handles on a regular mule I'd have spent over $100 dollars on a knife I couldn't carry outside of my house. That's a lot for just cutting up cardboard and other chores around the house. If I'm going to test a steel I need to be able to carry it.

And not every Mule steel makes it into the folders, and I at least would like to be able to try things and give feed back before the steel makes it into the regular line up or into sprints.

By the time you buy a blade and handle for this idea it'll be at least $100, I just don't see it being any more economical. The law issue is a bummer but that's just how it is. I'll support every request for putting out UKPK sprints so those folks can enjoy those steels but I can't see the rest of this working. I mean, unless everyone is ok with spending production knife money on a mule...if that's the case then yeah it'll work. I still think in the end this is just a complicated sprint situation.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby ZrowsN1s » Thu May 09, 2019 3:14 pm

Evil D wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:56 am
.......

By the time you buy a blade and handle for this idea it'll be at least $100, I just don't see it being any more economical. The law issue is a bummer but that's just how it is. I'll support every request for putting out UKPK sprints so those folks can enjoy those steels but I can't see the rest of this working. I mean, unless everyone is ok with spending production knife money on a mule...if that's the case then yeah it'll work. I still think in the end this is just a complicated sprint situation.
I agree the changeable blade thing doesn't seem like a winning idea, I'd need more info from Sal before I rule it out completely, Im open to the idea. But yes a $70 Urban or UKPK seems a better solution. What could make it different than a sprint is the direct through Spyderco sales and even more limited than sprint production.

As I said in another thread though, Spyderco has now made sprints of K390 Urbans, and is going to make an AEB-L Urban sprint. If those keep selling out, and we keep getting interesting sprint runs of the Urban... I'm ok with that, problem solved I guess.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

User avatar
Evil D
Member
Posts: 20779
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Northern KY

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby Evil D » Thu May 09, 2019 3:39 pm

ZrowsN1s wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:14 pm

As I said in another thread though, Spyderco has now made sprints of K390 Urbans, and is going to make an AEB-L Urban sprint. If those keep selling out, and we keep getting interesting sprint runs of the Urban... I'm ok with that, problem solved I guess.
This probably won't be a popular opinion but I think the most viable option would be a slip joint. If they built a handle with full liners and a solid back spacer running the fill length of the handle, then used the biggest pivot bushing they have, there wouldn't be any issues with lock faces not mating up or poor lock engagement. It could be built sturdy enough to baton the crap out of... you know...for science...and it would be legal practically anywhere since it doesn't lock. Then the only real testing you wouldn't be able to do is stabbing something. This would also reduce the amount of internal parts needed which will help to keep cost down. The scales don't even need to be nested...heck they really don't even need to be there at all, if people saw the things I've done with a Svord Peasant they'd be shocked and that knife couldn't be made any cheaper.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

User avatar
ZrowsN1s
Member
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm
Location: San Diego, California USA

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby ZrowsN1s » Thu May 09, 2019 3:44 pm

👍 good points.

im ready for Sal to get back into the discussion and tell us what he thinks.
Carrying 3 knives is perfectly normal :D
-Matt

TomAiello
Member
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Replaceable blade folding mule

Postby TomAiello » Thu May 09, 2019 5:59 pm

Evil D wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:31 am
I'm missing the whole appeal of a folding mule.
Broader market segment. More people can carry a sub 3" folder, so there could be more sales, which means less problems with small runs and flippers grabbing a bunch for eBay resales. Plus, more people get to play, since people could EDC the mules--even people in more restrictive jurisdictions.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: b_4444_yu, Bloke, buckleys, eRoc, FullScaler, Hobnob, koenigsegg, RamZar, sal and 22 guests