Poll for Folding MULE - UKPK

[cycleguy]

OK GUYS... I'M IN!!!! BUT, the name needs to change .... to POCKET MULE. And, henceforth be recognized as the Pocket Mule Program (PMP for short).

CG

[elena86]

This is one reason the Urban LW is going in that direction, I think. It is a nice platform for getting new steels in a knife many of us would actually carry and use everyday. A fixed blade gets little real world use in my life anymore. I have to purposely decide to do testing to use one. With a small folder, I will have it with me and cut everything I can find, from apples, to mail, from boxes, to cord, and whatever else in my daily life needs cutting. So, I am in favor of the folding mule.

And, BTW, Sal, thank you again for giving us good steels in the Urban LW to test.

I am with Doc on the subject. I have nothing against the idea of a folding mule but my choice would be the Urban LW which is allready heading this direction.

[steelcity16]

This is one reason the Urban LW is going in that direction, I think. It is a nice platform for getting new steels in a knife many of us would actually carry and use everyday. A fixed blade gets little real world use in my life anymore. I have to purposely decide to do testing to use one. With a small folder, I will have it with me and cut everything I can find, from apples, to mail, from boxes, to cord, and whatever else in my daily life needs cutting. So, I am in favor of the folding mule.

And, BTW, Sal, thank you again for giving us good steels in the Urban LW to test.

I am with Doc on the subject. I have nothing against the idea of a folding mule but my choice would be the Urban LW which is allready heading this direction.

I believe the Urban LW wouldn't be ideal because it is made in Italy and you would have to import many steels there. Elmax, K390, and AEB-L are all Bohler-Uddeholm (European manufacturer) steels. Golden seems to have the easiest access to the widest variety of steels. So UKPK if it HAS to be non-locking, or more ideally for me a Para 3 LW or Native LW so it is a little sturdier with the strong lock.

I am not opposed to using the Urban LW for testing all future Bohler-Uddeholm steels and the UKPK for the rest. I would love a rerun of the K390 and Elmax Urban LWs. And some new BU steels like Sleipner would be stellar!

[Liquid Cobra]

Spyderco being such an innovative company I wouldn’t be surprised if they developed a brand new low cost locking folder for something like this instead of relying on a design that wasn’t intended for such a purpose, the testing of blade steels.

[steelcity16]

Spyderco being such an innovative company I wouldn’t be surprised if they developed a brand new low cost locking folder for something like this instead of relying on a design that wasn’t intended for such a purpose, the testing of blade steels.

They already have three. The Native LW, Para 3 LW, and Manix LW (although a change to screw construction would be preferred). They are plenty strong enough everything aside from prying. Making the scales white and changing the logo from a Spydie to a Mule would distinguish it from the normal production knives. I doubt they would waste money on R&D and setup costs for a brand new folding mule design. For the low volume of the mules they would have to charge so much for them to offset the development costs that it would probably need to cost more than any of the 3 I mentioned just so they can recover their costs. I do agree they are innovative though. One of the most innovative companies I have ever seen in fact. I just think it makes more sense to use an existing design to keep costs down.

[ZrowsN1s]

If the Urban is the model that gets the 'experimental' steels I'm ok with that. The K390 version was popular and I expect the AEB-L version will be as well. I was thinking that a Golden model was the best option for price and for steel variety, but if Italian is better I don't object. Sal would know better than I would whats is most practicable.

The Urban model would still allow for UK and Canadian and others to buy and carry, which to me is the point of a folding mule.

[Liquid Cobra]

They already have three. The Native LW, Para 3 LW, and Manix LW (although a change to screw construction would be preferred). They are plenty strong enough everything aside from prying. Making the scales white and changing the logo from a Spydie to a Mule would distinguish it from the normal production knives. I doubt they would waste money on R&D and setup costs for a brand new folding mule design. For the low volume of the mules they would have to charge so much for them to offset the development costs that it would probably need to cost more than any of the 3 I mentioned just so they can recover their costs. I do agree they are innovative though. One of the most innovative companies I have ever seen in fact. I just think it makes more sense to use an existing design to keep costs down.

Yes those could work, but aren’t purpose build like I was saying. It’s an interesting discussion I’d say.

[fixall]

I’d definitely be down for a UKPK Mule.

I’m sad at the number of people who completely rule out non-locking knives because of safety, when they’ve never handled a Spyderco UKPK.

This isn’t your Grandpa’s slippy. When using a knife for what a knife is for (cutting), the UKPK is as safe as any folder I’ve used.

[steelcity16]

I’d definitely be down for a UKPK Mule.

I’m sad at the number of people who completely rule out non-locking knives because of safety, when they’ve never handled a Spyderco UKPK.

This isn’t your Grandpa’s slippy. When using a knife for what a knife is for (cutting), the UKPK is as safe as any folder I’ve used.

I ordered the Heinnie Haynes exclusive to try as my first non-locker. I am definitely hesitant, but I am excited to try it out for myself and prove myself wrong! :D

[Wartstein]

I’d definitely be down for a UKPK Mule.

I’m sad at the number of people who completely rule out non-locking knives because of safety, when they’ve never handled a Spyderco UKPK.

This isn’t your Grandpa’s slippy. When using a knife for what a knife is for (cutting), the UKPK is as safe as any folder I’ve used.

You are most likely right on this, concerning most applications. And a knife like the UKPK will probably held with one finger in the choil most of the time, making it even safer. And I'm not entitled to give an opinion anyway,since I really never use non locking folders other than very rarely the blade on a leatherman juice.

But for me a good lock (especially backlock) is just a feature I absolutely like on a folder, just by concept and design, and the feel and sound when it engages.
Aditionally I am SOO glad that in my country locking folders of any size are still legal, while not so in the sorrounding countries, that I just can't bring myself to carry a non-locking knife...

[Wartstein]

Plus, added to my post above: I think in the bigger knife size I prefer (Endura size), a non locking knife is less safe than in a small size. For one, cause a bigger knife is used differently sometimes. But also cause there is space on the handle to hold it further back, an when doing so a closing blade would hit the fingers with the edge and not Ricasso or choil. In a smaller typical Spyderco knife that's unlikely.

[Mushroom]

Spyderco being such an innovative company I wouldn’t be surprised if they developed a brand new low cost locking folder for something like this instead of relying on a design that wasn’t intended for such a purpose, the testing of blade steels.

I had voted no in the poll because I believed this would be the better option compared to choosing any current model.
It would be specifically designed for the purpose of testing new steels with consistency and minimizing certain variables, much like the current fixed blade Mule was designed for. Also, designing a purpose built folding Mule would help to eliminate people's bias to current models, in my opinion. Choosing a current model is essentially just choosing a model to make a sprint run of in all the new steels.

Though I agree that designing a new folding Mule would be the better option, I don't know how low cost it could actually be. The fixed blade Mules, in higher end steels, typically sold for around $70-$110 and they're just full tang blades with a grind and heat treat. When you add in all the other costs that come with making a folder, in small and partly experimental batches, I can't see any less than double the cost of the fixed blades. Especially if the country of origin is frequently changing.

[fixall]

I’d definitely be down for a UKPK Mule.

I’m sad at the number of people who completely rule out non-locking knives because of safety, when they’ve never handled a Spyderco UKPK.

This isn’t your Grandpa’s slippy. When using a knife for what a knife is for (cutting), the UKPK is as safe as any folder I’ve used.

You are most likely right on this, concerning most applications. And a knife like the UKPK will probably held with one finger in the choil most of the time, making it even safer. And I'm not entitled to give an opinion anyway,since I really never use non locking folders other than very rarely the blade on a leatherman juice.

But for me a good lock (especially backlock) is just a feature I absolutely like on a folder, just by concept and design, and the feel and sound when it engages.
Aditionally I am SOO glad that in my country locking folders of any size are still legal, while not so in the sorrounding countries, that I just can't bring myself to carry a non-locking knife...

All valid reasons not to be interested in the UKPK. :)

Heck, it's your money so any reason is a valid reason not to be interested, lol.

Spyderco being such an innovative company I wouldn’t be surprised if they developed a brand new low cost locking folder for something like this instead of relying on a design that wasn’t intended for such a purpose, the testing of blade steels.

I had voted no in the poll because I believed this would be the better option compared to choosing any current model.
It would be specifically designed for the purpose of testing new steels with consistency and minimizing certain variables, much like the current fixed blade Mule was designed for. Also, designing a purpose built folding Mule would help to eliminate people's bias to current models, in my opinion. Choosing a current model is essentially just choosing a model to make a sprint run of in all the new steels.

Though I agree that designing a new folding Mule would be the better option, I don't know how low cost it could actually be. The fixed blade Mules, in higher end steels, typically sold for around $70-$110 and they're just full tang blades with a grind and heat treat. When you add in all the other costs that come with making a folder, in small and partly experimental batches, I can't see any less than double the cost of the fixed blades. Especially if the country of origin is frequently changing.

I really like this idea! I too worry that the cost for a folder will be too high to make this feasible. Some of those exotic steels are really expensive so some money will be saved there since a folder uses so much less steel... But I don't think that would be enough to offset the cost increase brought on by the intricacies of a folder.

Who knows though... I sure as heck wasn't expecting a $90 Para 3 LW to come out of Golden, Colorado so maybe I'm way off base.

Something with a base price (before the cost of upgrading the steel) between the UKPK and Para 3 LW would be phenomenal.

[Doc Dan]

A non-locking knife like the Urban LW would be cheaper to produce than a locking knife, I believe. However, if a lock were included, in my book it must be a back lock or a CBBL, preferably the former. Also, in real world knife use as a test, a lock is not really needed on something the size of the Urban or the UKPK.

[steelcity16]

A non-locking knife like the Urban LW would be cheaper to produce than a locking knife, I believe. However, if a lock were included, in my book it must be a back lock or a CBBL, preferably the former. Also, in real world knife use as a test, a lock is not really needed on something the size of the Urban or the UKPK.

Yep, this is why my #1 model for this would be a Native LW. That thing is ROCK SOLID. Can do pretty much anything a fixed blade can do. And at under $100 for the base models it is plenty affordable for a few runs a years. Or the Para 3 LW is even a few bucks cheaper and has that great deep carry wire clip! Maybe the Para 3 LW is my number 1...

[steelcity16]

From what I’ve heard from Eric at the Amsterdam meet there will be +- 20 different versions coming with different steels and handle colors.

This is why I think a Para 3 LW is a great model to make a mule out of. We are going to have probably 10+ steels in these 20+ variations that we can use as baselines to compare against any new steel that gets made into a mule version. Not to mention you could still compare apples to apples against to myriad of G10 Para 3 steels. You already have people like Big Brown Bear testing Para 3s constantly against each other. So this allows for those great head to head comparisons against popular steels like M4, M390, Maxamet, whatever.

So any new steel goes into a white FRN Para 3 Mule with a mule logo instead of a spydie on the blade. Let's start with Sleipner, Vanax, and 3V!

[fixall]

I love the Para 3 and my M4 version is my go to when I have a tough job and can't use a fixed blade.

But the stock is just so dang thick. I feel like it would make a very poor test best for pushing the different steels to their limit for test purposes.

[sal]

So when you suggest a model for a folding Mule Team, are you thinking a new complete knife for each steel or a knife that you would change the blade?

sal

[steelcity16]

So when you suggest a model for a folding Mule Team, are you thinking a new complete knife for each steel or a knife that you would change the blade?

sal

My thought is the Para 3 LW or Native LW or UKPK are cheap enough to just do complete knives. My preference/idea was to keep White FRN as the designated mule color for all knives, and replace the Spydie logo with a logo of a mule to differentiate it further from a production folder. I would say continue to sell through the website rather than dealers as well. I figure these days there probably won't be more than 2 or 3 new steels per year that haven't been tried in other models, so a whole folder for ~$100 +/- based on steel costs isn't too tough of a pill to swallow a few times a year.

For what it's worth I did my part and just ordered a PD1 mule from the website to try to help sell out the last of the existing stock and hopefully move the program forward in a new and exciting direction! :) It will make a good beater knife since it is basically Cruwear. My first mule! I don't need any more fixed blades though, so it would have to be a folder for me going forward. Locking preferably.

[blendergasket]

So when you suggest a model for a folding Mule Team, are you thinking a new complete knife for each steel or a knife that you would change the blade?

sal

Getting one knife with interchangeable blades would be amazing.