Does it bother anyone else...?

[Drahkis]

...that the flipper on the Smock has been dubbed a "front flipper" when it is basically in the same position as every other flipper tab Spyderco has produced. I assume it has stemmed from the design looking so similar to a lot of front flippers in that the flipper is an exposed section of the tang. It is in the same location as the Ikuchi wheel but no one has referred to that as a front wheel flipper.

Probably because IT ISN'T ON THE FRONT.

[GiftedMisfit]

Doesn't bug me one bit. It works. It flips. I dont care what they call it.

[Bloke]

Yes it does! Just like calling the PM3 a Paramilitary 3, instead of Door Stop. :rolleyes:

I'm a stickler for accurate descriptions. :p

[vivi]

Nope. Never payed much attention to flippers so the thought never crossed my mind.

[Surfingringo]

...that the flipper on the Smock has been dubbed a "front flipper" when it is basically in the same position as every other flipper tab Spyderco has produced. I assume it has stemmed from the design looking so similar to a lot of front flippers in that the flipper is an exposed section of the tang. It is in the same location as the Ikuchi wheel but no one has referred to that as a front wheel flipper.

Probably because IT ISN'T ON THE FRONT.

It’s not? What are you referring to as “the front” of a knife? It’s a serious question. In this context, I would consider the end where the pivot is the front of the knife. Some might even consider the presentation side the front of the knife.

At any rate, it definitely doesn’t bother me. :)

[BornIn1500]

I hear ya. Some people in the knife community have hijacked popular terms and wrongly use them on nearly everything just so they can sound "cool" and jump on the bandwagon. A prime example is wharncliffe blades. A wharncliffe used to be a very specific shape and you knew exactly what you were getting. Now "knife bros" have expanded it to mean all kinds of shapes just to hop on the wagon and the term is almost meaningless. For example, how can a knife like this Hogue be called a "Wharncliffe"?? https://www.amazon.com/Hogue-34443-Fold ... B008QYY508 :confused: It's quite sad.


As for the Smock, it's not a front flipper at all.

[Tims]

Call me what you want, just don’t call me late for dinner

[Notsurewhy]

...that the flipper on the Smock has been dubbed a "front flipper" when it is basically in the same position as every other flipper tab Spyderco has produced. I assume it has stemmed from the design looking so similar to a lot of front flippers in that the flipper is an exposed section of the tang. It is in the same location as the Ikuchi wheel but no one has referred to that as a front wheel flipper.

Probably because IT ISN'T ON THE FRONT.

Interesting topic.

The "front-flippers" I've seen previously were all configured with the tab on the opposite side of the tang from where it is located on the smock, but that doesn't necessarily follow that it has to be on that side. It really just depends on what you consider the "front" or "back" of the knife to be.

"Front" comes from Latin for "forehead", but what determines the front vs side vs back of an inanimate object that is not anthropomorphically shaped? How do you feel about "OTF" (out the front) automatics like the benchmade infidel? Should they be called "out the side" autos? Do the people that use "front-flipper" for the smock or "OTF" for the infidel call a "back-lock" a "side-lock"?

Then again, "back" comes from old English/Germanic and was related to mountain ridges and/or the horizontal back of a quadruped. If I was going to ascribe a "forehead" to a closed folding knife, it would probably be in the vicinity of where the smocks's flipper is. Similarly if I had to do the same with a "ridge" it would be where a "back-lock" is typically located. I guess they both check out. It's still incredibly subjective, of course.

Maybe they should go medical/biomechanical with it and call them "lateral" or "medial" flippers? It's still subjective, but there are fewer preconceptions about what constitutes lateral of medial in a knife. We would probably just end up with the same confusion later on with different terms.

Did I over-analyze it? I feel as though I may have over-analyzed it.

TLDR: No, it doesn't really bother me.

[TomAiello]

Probably because IT ISN'T ON THE FRONT.

Depends on how you hold the knife and what you think of as the front.

Is the front the side with the clip (the "front" when it's in your pocket)? The sharp part of the blade (the "front" when you're cutting)? The pivot end (the "front when it's in your hand but closed)? The point of the blade (the "front" when it's in your hand but open)?

My wife and I go around this one repeatedly over (of all things) backpacks. For me, the "front" of a backpack is the side with the straps on it, that faces forward relative to you when you are wearing it. To her, the "front" of a backpack is the side furthest from your body because when the pack is on the ground that's the side that's facing out toward you. Who's right?

So maybe it is on the front--at least according to the designer.

[MichaelScott]

Hmmm… Imprecision in speech or the written word will almost always, but not certainly, cause issues.

“Your stupid.”

“My stupid what?”

Perhaps it might be accurate to say: The the blade’s spine terminal end can be manipulated to flip the blade open.

But, as usual, but not always, pictures are more descriptive than words.

[JacksonKnives]

...It is in the same location as the Ikuchi wheel but no one has referred to that as a front wheel flipper.
Probably because IT ISN'T ON THE FRONT.

For what it's worth, I do call the Ikuchi a front flipper. I'm pretty sure Eric has referred to it that way in promotional appearances. I don't know why you think the term is inconsistently applied. Have you heard people say the Ikuchi is not a front flipper?

IMO, this critique is pedantic and silly. No, it doesn't bug me, because the Smock/Ikuchi design is quite distinct from the Carson-style flipper. The tab doesn't stick out of the back of the handle, doesn't interfere with a compression lock, and the knife can be extremely narrow in pocket profile without reducing flipper effectiveness. Yes, flipping technique is more similar between a Smock and a Mantra than in comparison to a Shamwari, but they're not "the same."

By your definition, is the conventional Spyderco hole (on something like a PM2) a front flipper?

I agree with Notsurewhy that "front" is used consistently to refer to the bolster end of the closed knife when we're talking about automatics. For a pivot-opening knife, the channel and other long dimensions are consistently referred to as the "sides."

If you want to be really pedantic... these designs as flippers (not counting the traditional extended-tang designs like Douk-Douk et al.) originated in South Africa. See this post from Zenith.
By the original definitions, front refers to the bolster/pivot side of the handle, compared to the butt:

• A tab in-line with the pivot is a "front flipper." These are pretty rare.
• A tab in-line with the spine of the blade used to be a "lip flipper." (Cf.: Gareth Bull Shamwari, Mike Skellern/Fred Burger Exskelibur, Lundquist Feist, et al.)

Nowadays most designs are just called "regular" flippers if the tab is sticking out into your pocket seam, or "front" flippers if the tab is in-line with the handle. This covers the difference effectively. I've only seen Zenith refer to lip flippers here and only a few others on BladeForums, so the terminology distinction is pretty much dead. (Unless the SA guys are all hanging out in a different group somewhere calling us all morons for mixing up the terms.)

The newer designs using the lock face as a flipper seem to have started with modifications to the old Burnley/Boker Kwaiken, as far as I can tell. That's also where Kevin Smock got started working on knives. (Note that he wasn't the only modder to grind the corner off the Kwaiken handle, and I don't think he came up with it.)

[BLUETYPEII]

Life is way too short and complicated to worry about such things.

[Drahkis]

Life is way too short and complicated to worry about such things.

Whos worried? I just like consistency and I feel that description is completely inconsistent with all other knives I've seen called front flippers.

Probably because IT ISN'T ON THE FRONT.

Depends on how you hold the knife and what you think of as the front.

Is the front the side with the clip (the "front" when it's in your pocket)? The sharp part of the blade (the "front" when you're cutting)? The pivot end (the "front when it's in your hand but closed)? The point of the blade (the "front" when it's in your hand but open)?

If you make the case that the pivot end of the knife is the "front", pretty much EVERY flipper would be considered a front flipper.

[BornIn1500]

This thread is a little mind-blowing. I really didn't think there was such a debate on what a front flipper is. To me, it's very simple.

If a Smock/Ikuchi is called a front flipper, than how would you make the distinction between those and a knife that you flip from the "front front"? :confused: Would you call it a front-front flipper?

[TomAiello]

To me, your "back" and "front" labels should read "side" and "side". Or maybe "front" and "front".

"Front" would be the part away from the clip. "Back" would be the part near the clip. The red line should be drawn parallel to the line you've drawn.

The "front" flipper is to distinguish it from a "side" flipper. The "normal" flipper location is on the side, near the front. The "front" flipper is actually on the front (not the side).

[Drahkis]

To me, your "back" and "front" labels should read "side" and "side". Or maybe "front" and "front".

"Front" would be the part away from the clip. "Back" would be the part near the clip. The red line should be drawn parallel to the line you've drawn.

The "front" flipper is to distinguish it from a "side" flipper. The "normal" flipper location is on the side, near the front. The "front" flipper is actually on the front (not the side).

I would never say you are wrong...

But to me in this situation the symmetry of the knife determines "sides" like the "presentation side" as they tend to call it.

It isn't the spine side and the edge side. the handle scales are on each side of the knife.

Now a house I suppose had 4 sides, so that spine side and edge side could be appropriate when considering it with 4 but then they become the front and back, at least on a certain plane.

So I guess my ingrained idea of the "front" of the knife comes from feeling like i use the front of a blade to slice, not the side.

It suppose it should be considered a tang flipper or something along those lines.

[Drahkis]

This thread is a little mind-blowing. I really didn't think there was such a debate on what a front flipper is. To me, it's very simple.

If a Smock/Ikuchi is called a front flipper, than how would you make the distinction between those and a knife that you flip from the "front front"? :confused: Would you call it a front-front flipper?

We are on the same page here, as far as that pictures front and back...

It has been really interesting to me that anyone would see this from the perspective of TomAiello but that's part of what makes this forum so invaluable.

[cycleguy]

I'm not a flippin kind of guy so it doesn't bother me at all. Just don't call it a back lock, that will get me pissed!!

CG

[MichaelScott]

As I recall during the late medieval period in Europe, there were intense and heated discussions about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Literally.

[mattman]

Because the flipper tab is in *front* of the pivot.