Am I missing something?

[Mushroom]

If you are a serious knife user, you will notice a difference.

FYI, most people here are not serious knife users. They just like spyderco knives. Evil D is an actual user and you can value his advice. There's a few others too. A tenacious can do almost anything you want to do, unless you have a job that requires a lot of cutting. I have a job like that, but I'm one of the few. Most people here just appreciate build quality, smoothness, looks, etc. I do as well, but I look at every model from a utility standpoint. I look at ergonomics and apex stability. My next purchase will likely be a Caribbean sheepsfoot.

lol

lol x2

[sal]

Hi Krsmitty,

Welcome to our forum.

Yes, you are missing something. They are not clones, the are counterfeits, which means they stole the design, stole the name, stole the history and the engineering and you re in possession of stolen property. For some it doesn't matter. For some with more honor, it does.

The Tenacious is less expensive because it is made in China, where their dollar is valued at 6/1. An honest knife at an honest price does cost more with better materials.

sal

[GiftedMisfit]

I was going to mention the clone thing but figured I shouldn't. I couldn't have said it any better. Thank you for that.

[Pelagic]

:D I love how offended you guys get.

[MichaelScott]

I am offended by intellectual property theft, counterfeiting, and lying. And, I don’t think it is funny.

[Bloke]

:D I love how offended you guys get.

No offence taken here Hitch. :)

But, if you lead with your chin ... :p

[BornIn1500]

I am offended by intellectual property theft, counterfeiting, and lying. And, I don’t think it is funny.

I'm sure his comment was in response to the sarcastic (probably) LOLs he got from saying we're mostly not knife users. It wasn't about the counterfeit thing.

[Wartstein]

Hi Krsmitty,

Welcome to our forum.

Yes, you are missing something. They are not clones, the are counterfeits, which means they stole the design, stole the name, stole the history and the engineering and you re in possession of stolen property. For some it doesn't matter. For some with more honor, it does.

The Tenacious is less expensive because it is made in China, where their dollar is valued at 6/1. An honest knife at an honest price does cost more with better materials.

sal

First, so that no one get´s me wrong: I am totally with Sal concerning this. It really, really makes me angry thinking about fake-companies who shamelessly try to leech of Spydercos great creativity, designs and work. It´s really like living as a parasite
I never bought and of course never would buy any counterfeit and it would make me quite mad if someone tried to sell me one or I´d realize afterwards that someone actually DID!

That said: I don´t think every person who owns a counterfeit has to be necessarely "without honor" in any given case. The ones who are ALWAYS and for sure without honor are the producers and sellers of counterfeits. AND people /customers who know about the issue and still tolerate it or even buy counterfeits.

Still, I can see it happening that someon buys a counterfeit without even knowing that there is something wrong when doing so. I know, most people on this forum (including myself) can hardly imagine that, but think of it from another perspective and let me give an (quite weired maybe... :rolleyes: ) example:
I am really not interested in lets say pans for frying. So if I quickly needed one, it could happen that I just do a very quick search and buy one that looks good and is not too expensive, without having and taking the time to look deeper into the "frying-pan-world". IF that affordable pan happens to be a counterfeit of a design that a reputable pan-producer does, I wouldn´t even know it... I think the same can happen in the knife-world, and even more so I am angry at the producers of counterfeits who put such stuff on the market in the first place.

Admittedly, if someone is buying more than one counterfeit and even genuine Spydercos, presumably that person is interested enough in the "knife-world" that he or she should become aware of the counterfeit-issue.

No offense to you, Krsmitty, welcome to the forum!! But maybe think again about your counterfeit folders...

[Marulaghost]

Counterfeits can also get away with horrid quality.
Going behind someone and committing fraud like this is already a fair indication that they're far from ethical and will cut corners wherever possible. Is the blade steel what it's marked as? Maybe. Maybe not. How strong is that lock? How tight is that screw?
Fact is you'll never have the assurance with a counterfeit that you can rely on it

[ChrisinHove]

I am offended by intellectual property theft, counterfeiting, and lying. And, I don’t think it is funny.

+1.

[Evil D]

If you are a serious knife user, you will notice a difference.

FYI, most people here are not serious knife users. They just like spyderco knives. Evil D is an actual user and you can value his advice. There's a few others too. A tenacious can do almost anything you want to do, unless you have a job that requires a lot of cutting. I have a job like that, but I'm one of the few. Most people here just appreciate build quality, smoothness, looks, etc. I do as well, but I look at every model from a utility standpoint. I look at ergonomics and apex stability. My next purchase will likely be a Caribbean sheepsfoot.

lol

lol x2

I mean, I'd be willing to bet a lot of folks have knives that use their pockets more so than their hands use their knives. There's a whole lot of "fidget users" out there.

[Tucson Tom]

A few years ago I bought a couple of counterfeit PM2 knives on a Chinese website. I was simply curious to see what I would get for $13. Now I feel sort of bad for encouraging the seller in any way shape or form. One knife had a faulty lock mechanism. It was unsafe right out of the box, but I was able to disassemble it and with a bit of grinding, make it work right. They are labeled S30V, but I don't believe that even for a minute.

I was looking at it only from the point of view of the buyer getting ripped off, but this thread makes me think about the other side of the coin, namely how Spyderco gets ripped off every time one of these gets purchased.

[vivi]

If you are a serious knife user, you will notice a difference.

FYI, most people here are not serious knife users. They just like spyderco knives. Evil D is an actual user and you can value his advice. There's a few others too. A tenacious can do almost anything you want to do, unless you have a job that requires a lot of cutting. I have a job like that, but I'm one of the few. Most people here just appreciate build quality, smoothness, looks, etc. I do as well, but I look at every model from a utility standpoint. I look at ergonomics and apex stability. My next purchase will likely be a Caribbean sheepsfoot.

lol

lol x2

I mean, I'd be willing to bet a lot of folks have knives that use their pockets more so than their hands use their knives. There's a whole lot of "fidget users" out there.

There definitely are, but we can still laugh at quality cringe. :D

[curlyhairedboy]

reliable high performance is nice to have even if you don't need it every day :)

[MichaelScott]

I suspect that a big part of the problem is that there is obviously a market for cheap knockoffs. Some buyers likely do not know that real Spydercos exist that are precision costly tools and figure a knife is a knife is a knife. Others just don’t care and wouldn’t buy an expensive (to them) tool in the first place. I’m sure there are other reasons, none particularly savory, that drive the counterfeit market. As long as there is a market the swindlers will continue to sell.

I suppose Spyderco invests much time, resources and money in battling these sellers. I hope they are able to recover some significant portion of that and make a dent in that marketplace.

[krsmitty]

No offense to you, Krsmitty, welcome to the forum!! But maybe think again about your counterfeit folders...

No offense taken...I did mention that I have a Tenacious, Persistence and PM2. The clones was from olden days.

[sal]

Thanx much for your understanding. Counterfeiting is a particular pet peeve of mine as it presents so many problems and I try to keep others aware of the problem.

sal

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Hi Krsmitty,

Welcome to our forum.

Yes, you are missing something. They are not clones, the are counterfeits, which means they stole the design, stole the name, stole the history and the engineering and you re in possession of stolen property. For some it doesn't matter. For some with more honor, it does.

The Tenacious is less expensive because it is made in China, where their dollar is valued at 6/1. An honest knife at an honest price does cost more with better materials.

sal

K'Pow This!

[soc_monki]

Honestly, I think spydercos Chinese knives are 90% as good as their American models. I have a Resilience, Tenacious, and a Persistence (in my pocket right now!) and the only thing holding them back is the blade steel. I put them right up there with my Manix 2s and Para3. They won't stay sharp as long, but they feel every bit as good to use as my more expensive Spydies.

Also, I haven't had a single spyderco knife, Chinese or otherwise, with a badly ground edge yet. I love them for that... I hate having to fix other when I get them (looking at you, Kershaw /ZT!)

[Wartstein]

No offense to you, Krsmitty, welcome to the forum!! But maybe think again about your counterfeit folders...

No offense taken...I did mention that I have a Tenacious, Persistence and PM2. The clones was from olden days.

Thanx a lot for your reply, understanding and the willingness to discuss! Looking forward to hopefully reading more posts written by you in the future! :)