Grip discussion

[vivi]

Something I've come across in a few threads now is folks talking about how the Rhino can be a four finger grip for them. In my mind I'm thinking, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

Let's take a look at that knife.



Three finger grooves and a short handle. Seems to be designed as a three finger grip, no? Sure, you might be able to squeeze four finger on the handle if you try, but the ergos clearly weren't designed for that, as one finger will be forced to rest on a point of a finger groove (at least with my hand size.)

Something you might not know about me is I started out mostly buying small Spydercos. Mainly because all of the "non knife people" horror stories out there, something I later realized I'd never had issue with.

So my mission was to find the smallest Spydercos I could that offered a four finger grip for me behind the index choil. I know choils are beloved here but I really don't like them for certain tasks.

I had one of the S30V walmart natives. I sanded the point behind the largest finger groove, giving it more of a Native 5 handle shape, to try to accomodate a full grip behind the index choil.

I had the Caly 3 and Caly 3.5. I tried using both behind the index choil.

I had a Para 1. I modded it to tip up wire clip, then sanded down the pinky shelf to let me fit four fingers behind the choil.

So on and so on.

Now, let me bring something to your attention. You don't see me posting those knives here. Why? Because I got rid of them, for knives that are designed to be held the way I want, with four fingers behind the index choil. Police, Manix XL, Military, Calypso....these are all great in this respect.

I found out that just because you can force a certain grip on a design, does not make it comfortable for prolonged use, or practical to use day to day. That I was better off putting my social concerns to rest and buying a knife with another 1/2" of blade, and a handle that fits my grip.

What's been your experience in this regard?

Do you think smaller knives obviously designed around the user employing the index choil are ever worth trying to use in less conventional grips? Do any of you folks use four finger grips on your Rhino, or use Dragonfly folders behind the index choil - on a regular basis?

[ladybug93]

i pretty much always use the index choil if the knife has it. i do, however, use other grips as well. pinch grips and grips with my index finger on the spine with my middle finger in the index choil and the other fingers wherever they fall comfortably on the knife. i like having the extra control allowed by the choil.
i’m not sure if this is what you’re asking. i like that the df2 has one so i can get all four fingers on the knife, but it doesn’t really matter since you don’t typically bear down on small knives. that said, i don’t like my pinky hanging off of knives. if i were to use the rhino, i’d probably have my middle finger in the first groove and my index finger on the blade like i described above.

[TkoK83Spy]

I find myself always using the index choil, on every knife I own. Even the Delica, I place my index finger on the flat spot between the edge and the handle (ricasso?)

Since most of the time I'm using my knives at work, and I'm required to wear cut proof gloves, even without a choil, choking up doesn't pose much of a hazard on knives without a choil. I open a lot of parts, very expensive drives and electrical equipment. When getting into things like that, or tightly wrapped bubble wrap parts that I don't even know what's inside...I'll resort to my Dragonfly or Chaparral if I'm carrying them, over whatever larger folder I have on me.

Using the index choil allows for ultimate control and precision with my cuts. I certainly don't want it to be on me if some $8,500 electrical drive has a wire spliced because of an uncontrolled cut!

[spyderg]

I can squeeze 4 on the Rhino but agree it’s a three finger knife, pinky wraps around behind pretty nice though making it a 3 1/2 grip I guess. Even after sanding the tail end of my pm2’s I feel cramped if I put my thumb on the ramp. I like the Amalgam, lots of room on that handle. These days I’m loving my Smock, it’s just perfect.

[Sumdumguy]

There is absolutely no way I'm getting four fingers onto that grip. I like the design, but I really want to see it in the 3.25-3.5" range.

[Evil D]

I see knives like the Native and Caly 3 as being specifically designed with using the choil every time, so I never really consider behind the choil ergonomics because it feels wrong to even try. Other knives like the Military and Manix 2 feel "right" when gripped behind the choil, and it's obvious that the choil grip is a secondary gripping option.

I'm more or less over choils to be honest, on everything but small knives I'd just assume have a handle that gives a full grip and places your index finger as close to the edge as possible. I like them on small knives like the Dragonfly or Native 5, but mainly because they're the only way to get a full grip on them.

As for the Rhino, I've never held one but even if my hand were small enough to get all fingers on the grip it would mean some of my fingers would land right on the points, and I guess I just love myself too much to do that.

[Bill1170]

I can grip the PM2 with all four fingers on the handle. Any shorter and that wouldn’t be possible. I almost never use the choil on this knife or on my Stretch. I much prefer grasping only the handle.

That said, I will on occasion pinch a blade near the tip for detail work, or to limit penetration when slicing open something with delicate innards. My dad taught me this as a child, for scoring the skin of citrus fruits preparatory to peeling them.

I love the Stretch and the PM2 in spite of their choils, not because of them.

Am I the only one whose autocorrect always wants to convert “choil” to “choir”?

[Halfneck]

I prefer my Delica over my Caly 3 because I'm not fond of choils. Of knives with choils I will admit the Caly 3 is my favorite. AAAll that said, the Rhino has been my EDC for a while now. While it is only a 3 finger grip for me, it doesn't feel insecure at all. The only time I can get a 4 finger grip on it is in the Reverse grip. In my day to day knife uses I never find myself using that grip though. While I generally prefer a full grip, the compact profile of the Rhino has made it a great work EDC.

[rabbitanarchy14]

My issue is if you don't like choils and sharpened blade for me is so far away from my hand(smock) as where if the is no finger choilthe s
Blade has to be up to the pivot and grip on the pivot not behind. Otherwise choils are the best thing to come. I do only use the choil. I never feel like," hey I am right next to the blade I need to move back so I have an inch in between my blade And hand because the knife isn't long enough". Never once ever has my knife not been long enough I would ever back away from the blade chiol.

[vivi]

i pretty much always use the index choil if the knife has it.

Do you do this with larger knives like the Manix too? I had a friend that EDC'd stuff like the Caly 3 or a Pacific Salt as his larger knife, and he's always reach for the choil. Even on big knives like my Police, Millie, etc.

i do, however, use other grips as well. pinch grips and grips with my index finger on the spine with my middle finger in the index choil and the other fingers wherever they fall comfortably on the knife. i like having the extra control allowed by the choil.
i’m not sure if this is what you’re asking. i like that the df2 has one so i can get all four fingers on the knife, but it doesn’t really matter since you don’t typically bear down on small knives. that said, i don’t like my pinky hanging off of knives. if i were to use the rhino, i’d probably have my middle finger in the first groove and my index finger on the blade like i described above.

That grip with your index finger on the spine and middle finger in the choil is one I use a lot. That's the grip I'm using 90% of the time I use the index choil on my knives. On most my folders I never have my thumb on the ramp with my index finger in the choil.

[vivi]

I can squeeze 4 on the Rhino but agree it’s a three finger knife, pinky wraps around behind pretty nice though making it a 3 1/2 grip I guess. Even after sanding the tail end of my pm2’s I feel cramped if I put my thumb on the ramp. I like the Amalgam, lots of room on that handle. These days I’m loving my Smock, it’s just perfect.4483573C-9112-47DB-9282-13ADB1870457.jpeg

That Smock looks made for your hand. I see why you like it!

I see knives like the Native and Caly 3 as being specifically designed with using the choil every time, so I never really consider behind the choil ergonomics because it feels wrong to even try. Other knives like the Military and Manix 2 feel "right" when gripped behind the choil, and it's obvious that the choil grip is a secondary gripping option.

This is the same observation I made. The Caly 3, if I try I think I was able to squeeze all four fingers on the handle behind the choil...but the knife wasn't ergonomic to use that way.

I'm more or less over choils to be honest, on everything but small knives I'd just assume have a handle that gives a full grip and places your index finger as close to the edge as possible. I like them on small knives like the Dragonfly or Native 5, but mainly because they're the only way to get a full grip on them.

I'm in the same boat. When I first got into Spyderco I was all about choils, but over time I've found knives that don't utilize them to be more comfortable.

I will say I like choils more on knives with no thumb ramp. On knives that do have them, like my Police 4, there is no where comfortable for my thumb to go if my index finger is in the choil. No issues there on a Shaman though.

[vivi]

My issue is if you don't like choils and sharpened blade for me is so far away from my hand(smock) as where if the is no finger choilthe s
Blade has to be up to the pivot and grip on the pivot not behind. Otherwise choils are the best thing to come. I do only use the choil. I never feel like," hey I am right next to the blade I need to move back so I have an inch in between my blade And hand because the knife isn't long enough". Never once ever has my knife not been long enough I would ever back away from the blade chiol.

One issue I have is I prefer having my index finger close to the edge, but I find choils generally less ergonomic. So on, say, my Manix XL, I'm not going to be using the choil 95% of the time. I think I might enjoy that design more if there was no choil, the grip got my hand closer to the edge, and the edge came further back.

[rabbitanarchy14]

One issue I have is I prefer having my index finger close to the edge, but I find choils generally less ergonomic. So on, say, my Manix XL, I'm not going to be using the choil 95% of the time. I think I might enjoy that design more if there was no choil, the grip got my hand closer to the edge, and the edge came further back.

I agree if there is no finger choil on the big knives (manix) and up I want the edge and my hand close like 1/4" max. But alot of knives are hard to grip on top the pivot screw so I would need a choil to get close enough to the edge so I stick with under 3" and must have choil.

[ladybug93]

i pretty much always use the index choil if the knife has it.

Do you do this with larger knives like the Manix too? I had a friend that EDC'd stuff like the Caly 3 or a Pacific Salt as his larger knife, and he's always reach for the choil. Even on big knives like my Police, Millie, etc.

i do use the choil on the manix almost always. i don’t like having my hand so far from the cutting edge. i can go back and forth between my manix, yojimbo, and pacific salt without putting my finger on any blades though.

[The Deacon]

I guess I have relatively small hands for a man, as I can get a full four finger grip on the Caly 3 without using the choil. OTOH, I much prefer a handle like the Caly and Stretch have, to handles like the Rhino's, Manix's, and Autonomy's which force me to either separate my fingers or rest one or more of them on a pointy projection.

[curlyhairedboy]

I enjoy a good choil as I feel it allows the blade to 'lock' in often more securely (imo) than some gently sloping handles.

As someone with larger hands, however, I definitely understand some folk having a preference for fingers strictly on handles, not any part of the blade. A finger choil that involves the blade will be much narrower than the handle, and may present a pressure point.

Depends on the kind of work you're doing.

[Marulaghost]

I have big yet small hands. Great for playing bass. My palms can cover a fair bit of surface area. My fingers are pretty long. But my fingers are also really skinny. If you took off all the horrifying fur off of a wolf spider, you'd have my hands.
I can make my hand hold a dfly with all four fingers right before that dramatic drop at the end of the handle. It's a strong, rock-solid grip. But it's far more natural for me to sprawl my fingers out and have my pinky past the point.

While we're on the topic of grip, sometimes i prefer holding my knives in a pinch grip, not from top to bottom as spyderco has designed in many of their products, but side to side like a chef's knife. I only have small knives and i find my index finger can contact the top and bottom of the knife at the point of the first finger choil if i wrap it around. From there my thumb can rest on the blade containing the thumb hole and a scale. It's a super secure grip. Nothing shifts.

[Evil D]

I guess I have relatively small hands for a man, as I can get a full four finger grip on the Caly 3 without using the choil. OTOH, I much prefer a handle like the Caly and Stretch have, to handles like the Rhino's, Manix's, and Autonomy's which force me to either separate my fingers or rest one or more of them on a pointy projection.

The Autonomy is a constant surprise for me since I strongly despise all but one prominent finger groove for your index finger, yet somehow the Autonomy fits my hand and feels great. It seems my aversion to finger grooves is more out of spite for most of them not fitting my finger size than anything else.

[spyderg]

As for the Rhino, I've never held one but even if my hand were small enough to get all fingers on the grip it would mean some of my fingers would land right on the points, and I guess I just love myself too much to do that.

I’ve got lrg-xlrg hands but I can squeeze all four on the Rhino, and yes fingers sit on the points however they’re so squeezed that the meat acts as a cushion and it’s not too bad actually. I cut through some thick rubber like this to see how it would feel. I certainly wouldn’t want to use it like that for an extended period of time but for a short job it works. Other than that it’s a great 3 finger knife for most edc tasks.

[vivi]

I guess I have relatively small hands for a man, as I can get a full four finger grip on the Caly 3 without using the choil. OTOH, I much prefer a handle like the Caly and Stretch have, to handles like the Rhino's, Manix's, and Autonomy's which force me to either separate my fingers or rest one or more of them on a pointy projection.

I think you're on to something. Knives with finger grooves seem to fit a more narrow spectrum of users compared to a more open handle design. Something like a Centofante folder, a Buck 110 or Waterway works for a wide variety of hand sizes.