About weight
Carrying weight is not a real problem for me. Some weight may even be usefull just to let you know if you still have knife around(FRN Endura offten makes me to worry if I was pickpocketed) The other point is "feel" of a knife. I always felt more thrust in knives, that feel more massive and solid. Even if I KNOW, that lighter construction would work fine.
About aestetics. Oh, I don't care for them, knife can be as ugly and scarry as it wants... :-) Sorry, just a joke. Actually, when choosing knife looks are important for me. Always thought that at least you must not be ashamed to draw your knife. And personal liking -- I don't like the idea of carrying a BAD looking knife (plain is another thing -- neither joy nor sorrow). On the other hand, aestetics is very personal, for example Ka-Bar looks alright for me, but mirror-polished blade covered with ornamental looks just horrible.
Dialogue needed: Mass vs Technology
-
pyton357ru
- Member
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia and proud of it!!
In my mind the question is a simple one. Make it as heavy as it needs to be (with the given materials) so that it will not fail in its intended task and no heavier.
The knives used in the rope cutting competitions are a good example of this. They are without doubt a case of technology over mass. Ed Schempp has proven this with his designs for rope cutting time and again. (Sal, wait 'til you see the camp knife he has to show you!) In this case a heavier knife is a poor performer. Knives and cutting are not the same as clubbing. Much more compex forces are at play here.
Mass is also not a guarantee of strength. Good material, good desin and good heat treating are the real keys.
So make mine as heavy as needed to not fail and no heavier please!
Greg R. Beeman
Sempe Ubi Sub Ubi
(Ok, finally got the signature in!)
Edited by - crecy on 5/26/2003 1:23:59 PM
Edited by - crecy on 5/26/2003 1:26:37 PM
Edited by - crecy on 5/26/2003 1:28:12 PM
The knives used in the rope cutting competitions are a good example of this. They are without doubt a case of technology over mass. Ed Schempp has proven this with his designs for rope cutting time and again. (Sal, wait 'til you see the camp knife he has to show you!) In this case a heavier knife is a poor performer. Knives and cutting are not the same as clubbing. Much more compex forces are at play here.
Mass is also not a guarantee of strength. Good material, good desin and good heat treating are the real keys.
So make mine as heavy as needed to not fail and no heavier please!
Greg R. Beeman
Sempe Ubi Sub Ubi
(Ok, finally got the signature in!)
Edited by - crecy on 5/26/2003 1:23:59 PM
Edited by - crecy on 5/26/2003 1:26:37 PM
Edited by - crecy on 5/26/2003 1:28:12 PM
Hi Sal,
I vote for technology and subscribe to the right tool for the right job. My EDC varies for the city, the back country and water sports. However, when pressed for a multi-knife, my EDC is my SPOT (perhaps the lightest knife I own).
However, when I go off hiking or camping with the guys (not EDC guys) it's funny how they evaluate the different knives... size and heft are their clear winners every time.
Oh well, sounds like most of us Spydie users are ahead of the curve and realize that size doesn't matter... lol.
Gary
I vote for technology and subscribe to the right tool for the right job. My EDC varies for the city, the back country and water sports. However, when pressed for a multi-knife, my EDC is my SPOT (perhaps the lightest knife I own).
However, when I go off hiking or camping with the guys (not EDC guys) it's funny how they evaluate the different knives... size and heft are their clear winners every time.
Oh well, sounds like most of us Spydie users are ahead of the curve and realize that size doesn't matter... lol.
Gary
-
java
- Member
- Posts: 2978
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Rosamond - Tropical Paradise without the tropics.....(or the paradise)
Crecy,
Good point on function! Just a slight drift OT to comment on the sig line - that's a darn good idea and like Momma says, make sure it's a clean pair in case you are in an accident! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
<font color="BLUE">"A hole-less knife is soul-less knife is a whole less knife" - <i>Javanese proverb"</i><font>
Good point on function! Just a slight drift OT to comment on the sig line - that's a darn good idea and like Momma says, make sure it's a clean pair in case you are in an accident! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
<font color="BLUE">"A hole-less knife is soul-less knife is a whole less knife" - <i>Javanese proverb"</i><font>
It's interesting reading the above comments. Mostly, I saw 'heft' as the answer.
I'm partial to the FRN knives. I like that they're lightweight, and have no problem with the weight differential between the blade and handle. I've carried the Buck 110, and now it seems ridiculously heavy when I pick it up.
To qualify my answer regarding FRN, the first spydie I bought was an FRN Rescue and I loved it. The only reason I've stopped carrying it was the integral FRN clip. Just recently, I acquired a Vesuvius. It does feel meatier than my FRN knives (Native, Merlin, Rescues) and I'm very happy with it. Still it's lighter than the SS blades.
On the light side: I picked up a Q model once, just to check it out. Not that is a light knife. I'm still kicking myself for not purchasing it. I didn't like how light it was. It felt barely there in my hand.
Which brings me to the real test for a knife: how it feels in my hand. A few months ago I had an opportunity to visit the Spyderco factory outlet. While there, I fondled, groped, and molested every blade they had. I was surprised at a few of my reactions. I realized that I didn't like the Impala because of the way it felt. I didn't like the Moran fixed blades either. I'm generally partial to drop-points, but the Moran drop-point curves upward (with edge down) from pommel to tip. It felt like it was falling away from my fingers.
Picking up the Perrin bowie, I loved it. And I generally don't like clip-points. Same goes for the Ronin. Both blades melded into my hand, and weight didn't matter as much as them feeling a part of my body.
I am guilty of preferring some models over others based solely on their looks. It's funny, I do not like the execution of the swedge on the Native, and so shy away from using it sometimes. But it is rock-solid in my hand. I wish some of my other knives were so ergonomic. I'd take the Vesuvius blade style on a Native handle in a heartbeat!
This is all perception though. I don't know that heavier blades are necessarily stronger or sturdier. This discussion reminds me of a product they used to put on mild lacerations (sold over the counter). It stung when you applied it. Eventually the company found out how to take the sting out, but no one wanted it. They couldn't tell it was working without the pain!
One other note: I shy away from the comparison of mass and technology. I am not an 'early adopter' of tech. So when a company advertises a high-tech knife, I'm not interested right away. I want them to get the kinks worked out first. But I still like my knives lighter...
<a href=http://www.spyderco.com/forum/Topic.asp ... Frequently Used Terms</a>
Praise not the day ere evening has come,
a sword before it is tried,
ice before it has been crossed,
and beer until it is drunk.
I'm partial to the FRN knives. I like that they're lightweight, and have no problem with the weight differential between the blade and handle. I've carried the Buck 110, and now it seems ridiculously heavy when I pick it up.
To qualify my answer regarding FRN, the first spydie I bought was an FRN Rescue and I loved it. The only reason I've stopped carrying it was the integral FRN clip. Just recently, I acquired a Vesuvius. It does feel meatier than my FRN knives (Native, Merlin, Rescues) and I'm very happy with it. Still it's lighter than the SS blades.
On the light side: I picked up a Q model once, just to check it out. Not that is a light knife. I'm still kicking myself for not purchasing it. I didn't like how light it was. It felt barely there in my hand.
Which brings me to the real test for a knife: how it feels in my hand. A few months ago I had an opportunity to visit the Spyderco factory outlet. While there, I fondled, groped, and molested every blade they had. I was surprised at a few of my reactions. I realized that I didn't like the Impala because of the way it felt. I didn't like the Moran fixed blades either. I'm generally partial to drop-points, but the Moran drop-point curves upward (with edge down) from pommel to tip. It felt like it was falling away from my fingers.
Picking up the Perrin bowie, I loved it. And I generally don't like clip-points. Same goes for the Ronin. Both blades melded into my hand, and weight didn't matter as much as them feeling a part of my body.
I am guilty of preferring some models over others based solely on their looks. It's funny, I do not like the execution of the swedge on the Native, and so shy away from using it sometimes. But it is rock-solid in my hand. I wish some of my other knives were so ergonomic. I'd take the Vesuvius blade style on a Native handle in a heartbeat!
This is all perception though. I don't know that heavier blades are necessarily stronger or sturdier. This discussion reminds me of a product they used to put on mild lacerations (sold over the counter). It stung when you applied it. Eventually the company found out how to take the sting out, but no one wanted it. They couldn't tell it was working without the pain!
One other note: I shy away from the comparison of mass and technology. I am not an 'early adopter' of tech. So when a company advertises a high-tech knife, I'm not interested right away. I want them to get the kinks worked out first. But I still like my knives lighter...
<a href=http://www.spyderco.com/forum/Topic.asp ... Frequently Used Terms</a>
Praise not the day ere evening has come,
a sword before it is tried,
ice before it has been crossed,
and beer until it is drunk.
Sal, I'm some where in between! You hit on an importatnt consideration, that if the knife is to burdensome on your person, your more likely not to take it along! I like mass but not at the expence of performance! I like for the knife to look good, but again not at the expence of performance! With todays technology I see no reason why a knife can't have a little of everything. The Vesuvius, the G-10 Police/Military, and the BF G-10 Native are good examples to me of this. I really like the Chinook it has G-10 handles w/steel liners & premium steel blade of 3 3/4" just the right size, but 7.2 ozs! In comparison the BM 735 G-10 w/steel liners, premium steel blade of 3.6" again just the right size(slightly smaller), at only 4.4. ozs. Then you have the Military w/one steel liner, premium steel blade of 4", at just 4 ozs. The Chinook while a nice knife, to me it's out of the hunt, and it's between the Military & BM 735! That way I can have my cake, and eat it too! RKBA!
-
dialex
- Member
- Posts: 9169
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Campina, Romania, Europe, Terra
- Contact:
Thanks for the topic, as it may give a clue upon the strategy Spyderco is willing to follow in the not so distant future.
As I'm a "function first" adept, I go for the technology part. If a design feature looks unappealing and it performs better, I'll try to make it appealing.
As I am an all time knife bearer, I don't like mass (maybe that's why I love the Delica that much) <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. I'd definitely go for a FRN model rather than a SS one, even if they had the same blade steel. Because Spyderco knives are made to be used (and oftenly abused, he, he) <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
<a href="http://users.pcnet.ro/dialex"><font color=blue>(my page)</font></a>
As I'm a "function first" adept, I go for the technology part. If a design feature looks unappealing and it performs better, I'll try to make it appealing.
As I am an all time knife bearer, I don't like mass (maybe that's why I love the Delica that much) <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. I'd definitely go for a FRN model rather than a SS one, even if they had the same blade steel. Because Spyderco knives are made to be used (and oftenly abused, he, he) <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
<a href="http://users.pcnet.ro/dialex"><font color=blue>(my page)</font></a>
Sal,I don't think there is any one right answer to your question. Different situations call for different knives. For looks,I think the Lum Chinese is one of the best looking Spydies out there,but it regularly gets bumped by my Natives. The FRN Natives have butt-ugly handles,yet they've grown on me because they just work so well as EDC's. As for heft,the Chinook may be impressive,but I'm even more impressed by how tough the Millie can be while still staying so light. To give an example,my Swisstool used to be my favorite multi-tool until I got a Leatherman Supertool. The Supertool is lighter and more compact,so I carry it even though the handles have to be opened to access the blades and the locking mechanism is archaic. Basically,if I'm going to dress up,I'll carry what looks good,but if I'm working,I'll carry whatever works best.
I think that the performance is tantamount. I have carried an endura for years, and I find it comfy carry. howver, I have been carrying my Gunting Drone every day for a couple of months, and I remember that I didn't buy one a long time ago b/c it was too heavy, of big in my pocket, the ramp, etc. But I got used to it, I think now my weight range tolerance is much higher than i used to be. I've also gotten rid of pretty knives that don't work..If it doesn't do what I bought it to do, then it is useless jewelry..--joe