s30v spyderco's acceptable

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

If S30V doesn't hold a sharp edge well for someone my first guess would be poor sharpening.

I disagree with you. Factory edges do not hold as well side by side same make and model. Resharpened edges do not either side by side.

I know there is allot of politics here on this topic and long term as well as new members want to align along company lines and policy and political correct opinions and perceived policy but enough really is enough.

Believe as you like stand on your rep and street cred but what is is period.

[weeping minora]

I'll be full of myself for once and rest my case with a quote from my post:

"...I see S30V/35VN as just as premium or super of a steel that seem to get this kind of wrap from many folks, which don't seem to be able to justify the means of inferiority it holds vs any other steel :confused:"

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

That is okay I don’t disagree it is a super steel only that it does not hold a really sharp edge as well as other steels as long. That is my only gripe with it.

Both S30V and S35VN are great steels, there are better ones that hold a truly sharp edge longer and that matters to me.

And like you I rest my case and am quit of this topic.

[vivi]

I know there is allot of politics here on this topic and long term as well as new members want to align along company lines and policy and political correct opinions and perceived policy but enough really is enough.

lol.

You and Pelagic both seem to have missed that I've probably been the most contrarian, critical member here, with a join date as old as mine. I won't even buy a knife that uses a comp lock.

Some folks here act like all the regulars here are a bunch of drones that toe the company line. That couldn't be further from the truth. We're a fickle, critical, picky bunch.

viewtopic.php?t=74589 - Just read that

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I know there is allot of politics here on this topic and long term as well as new members want to align along company lines and policy and political correct opinions and perceived policy but enough really is enough.

lol.

Yeah Lol.

[vivi]

I know there is allot of politics here on this topic and long term as well as new members want to align along company lines and policy and political correct opinions and perceived policy but enough really is enough.

lol.

Yeah Lol.

Check my edit.

viewtopic.php?t=74589 - So PC.

[Extra330SC]

Some help for people that are having issues. ..great video from BBB!
https://youtu.be/TgGoSBxFGKA


James

[Wartstein]

What I think about S30V (that I really like it) and that this is NOT based on expert experiences and knowledge (cause I don´t have those... ) you can read in the (my) first reply in this thread (so second post).

Just wanted to give (once more) the impressions of an - compared to many on this forum - really not very experienced sharpener and guy with quite little knowledge about steels. I think that can be of some value too, when it comes to evaluating S30V:

- I use and used quite a few steels, but mainly now S30 V and VG 10 (when it comes to folders), so let me compare these two
- As said, I am not good at sharpening, but can get any steel to shave armhair / cleanly cut paper on my sharpmaker and a leather strop, and thats enough for me (if the particular edge I put on my knives is the best for hard use, long edge holding or whatever I really don´t know)
- For me and my technique S30 V takes noticeable longer to sharpen than VG 10, but also holds an edge noticeable longer in MY use (quite various tasks, going from cardboard,to food prep, to woodwork,to smaller occasional EDC-cutting tasks...). I can´t tell in detail though how much the STEEL contributes to that (for me) fact, and how much egde geometry and so on.
- I as a guy who uses knives a lot and probably CAN do a bit of sharpening compared to the average knife- user, but NOT compared to many on this forum, S 30V is totally fine both in sharpenability and in edge retention. Also in rust resistance, no problems at all in that capacity for me
- I feel I really can safely say, that I came to that opinion and impression just through personal experience and NOT through beeing biased by things I read on forums or saw in vids.
- Out of the steels I have experience with, I might like HAP40 a bit over S30 V, but as said in my previous post: A knife I do like by it´s design, I´d happily take in either of those steels.
- There MIGHT be better steels out there for my use, but I don´t feel the need to go on a quest to find those. I am happy with S30 V (and VG10, CTS HXP HAP40); But while I absolutely feel inclined to always try new knife DESIGNS, and maybe find the best for me, that is just not the case when it comes to steel. I sure don´t want a "bad" one, but I´ve already found those which perfectly do it for me.
- Again, that´s just me, and I sure have a lot of respect for people who know more about steels than I do.

[vivi]

https://youtu.be/hl3n-BtLoaI

I bought an S30V Walmart Native over a decade ago. I've used about a dozen S30V Spydercos in that time, and maybe five from other companies.

Never had any issues with it, whether it's chipping, not taking an edge, or not holding an edge. Used to baton my C95 too.

Polished or toothy, I've made everything from 300 to 8000 grit work with this steel.

In fact one of the first knives I got sharp enough to whittle an individual hair was an S30V G10 UKPK now that I think about it.

[Wartstein]

Just to illustrate how "non knife people" might think about S30V: The following I copy-and-pasted from an article I found on a site called "shootingmystery.com" (for the record: I myself (like many Europeans) don´t know nothing about shooting and never fired a gun..):
They compare VG 10 to S30 V:

"Among the two, S30V got the better edge retention along with high durability and excellent resistant against many things. However, S30V blade is more prone to chippings and quite expensive. It usually heat – treated so the blade is very hard and strong but that would cause some troubles later. One notable issue is the edge will eventually wear and it will be extremely hard to sharpen it back. The S30V price tag is also quite substantial which means that your budget may not always suitable to make the purchase."

I mean... "extremely hard to sharpen it back?!" :rolleyes: That´s what I meant, when I said that compared to many on this forum I am really not good at sharpening, but compared to the average user probably quite ok... and before all it shows how much is depending on the individual perspective when evaluating a steel: For some, S30V is "very hard and strong" and "extremely hard to sharpen", for someone like me it is just perfect, and really not hard to sharpen, for some who are really into steels or have very special needs it might be not enough "special", or hard, or whatever...

[Bloke]

https://youtu.be/-MxCDbAW638

[MichaelScott]

If S30V doesn't hold a sharp edge well for someone my first guess would be poor sharpening.

Yep.

[Woodpuppy]

I’m in the “never s30v” camp. Admittedly I’ve never used a Spyderco in s30v, but experience with two other brands in s30v has left me with a grudge. I will acknowledge that my sharpening skill has improved markedly over the last year. Since immersing myself in Spyderco again since last June, I find there are many other more interesting steels to explore. S30V may be a well balanced performer, but that means each attribute is compromised to an extent. As far as “well balanced” steels go, VG10 is still quite a solid performer. I’d choose it over s30v every time.

I have found that there are steels that resist staining better than s30v; there are steels which are easier to sharpen and which also have better toughness and edge retention, though at the expense of corrosion resistance. There are steels which are easy to put a really wicked edge on, and that’s fun in its own right. They won’t hold that edge long, but are so easy to bring back. BD1 and a doublestuff made for a great edc combo. Someone posted in this thread that they didn’t want to have to carry sharpening equipment in the woods. I get that when backpacking every ounce counts, but I can’t imagine not taking a reasonable sharpening stone with me in the woods; I’m not going to rely on found rocks to sharpen such an important tool. In fact I’ve been edcing the doublestuff and the DS2 on a regular basis.

My conclusion is my own, not a product of the internet bubble. With regard to s30v, other steels give me more pleasure to use, and since I don’t need to pare down to one user for the rest of my life, diversity and exploration is what it’s all about.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Hi Vivi,

Good morning.

I saw your edit. No I do not think of anyone as drones. I do think however there is an undercurrent of acceptable truths that are not true when it comes to S30V.

I also have observed when it comes to forums and not just this one the longer someone is participating the more perceived ownership they develop and the crowd that follows them especially the ones with ongoing heavyweight contributions like your over the years.

The heavyweights here are from my observation.

EvilD
Meatman
Crux
Vivi
surfinggringo
Pelagic
Bloke
The Deacon
And those are just the names I can recall off the top of my head.

I respect all you guys. Especially you Vivi I still appreciate the Police 3 you helped me out with. So when you fired off that comment about sharpening S30V I was actually bothered because
I care about what you think.

So anyway now you know my initial reaction for whatever that is worth or not.

After sleeping on it I realize ok this guy does know his stuff so maybe I am missing something with sharpening S30V?

I would at this time like to ask you Vivi and others what is your recommended way of brining our the best in S30V.

Will happily eat my words if I can get S30V where you say it can be.

Respectfully

And thanks.

[Lodestar]

My thought is.

I'm fine with S30V on a knife. Acceptable, but not exciting.

However, when the knife gets into the $150-200+ range I expect (or would prefer) better steel. I'm willing to eat the extra cost which is realistically not that much of a price bump based on sprints. Probably <$30 unless they severely discount cost to distributors on sprints.

So for me, I'll just wait for the sprint on expensive models, unless I am very excited about a model. That may never come. So spyderco is just missing out sometimes on $200 when I'm willing to pay $230.

I don't claim to know the difficulty of acquiring the fancier steels, keeping them on hand at all times, or if you have to buy opportunistically. Perhaps this is the real issue, and why certain steels are limited to sprint runs.

[Wartstein]

I’m in the “never s30v” camp. Admittedly I’ve never used a Spyderco in s30v, but experience with two other brands in s30v has left me with a grudge. I will acknowledge that my sharpening skill has improved markedly over the last year. Since immersing myself in Spyderco again since last June, I find there are many other more interesting steels to explore. S30V may be a well balanced performer, but that means each attribute is compromised to an extent. As far as “well balanced” steels go, VG10 is still quite a solid performer. I’d choose it over s30v every time.

I have found that there are steels that resist staining better than s30v; there are steels which are easier to sharpen and which also have better toughness and edge retention, though at the expense of corrosion resistance. There are steels which are easy to put a really wicked edge on, and that’s fun in its own right. They won’t hold that edge long, but are so easy to bring back. BD1 and a doublestuff made for a great edc combo. Someone posted in this thread that they didn’t want to have to carry sharpening equipment in the woods. I get that when backpacking every ounce counts, but I can’t imagine not taking a reasonable sharpening stone with me in the woods; I’m not going to rely on found rocks to sharpen such an important tool. In fact I’ve been edcing the doublestuff and the DS2 on a regular basis.

My conclusion is my own, not a product of the internet bubble. With regard to s30v, other steels give me more pleasure to use, and since I don’t need to pare down to one user for the rest of my life, diversity and exploration is what it’s all about.

First and foremost: I totally respect and appreciate your obviously elaborated and valid opinion!
But allow me to share some thoughts on it:

- You write, and I may quote you:

"I have found that there are steels that resist staining better than S30v; there are steels which are easier to sharpen and which also have better toughness and edge retention, though at the expense of corrosion resistance. There are steels which are easy to put a really wicked edge on, and that’s fun in its own right. They won’t hold that edge long, but are so easy to bring back."

As I see it, you could put a lot of other steels in place of the (highlighted) S30V, couldn´t you? So that is nothing specifically against (or for) S30V imho.

- You say, you never used Spydercos S30V. So, just a thought: Couldn´t it be that trying out their S30V (at least one time), and comparing it against the one used by other companies, indeed could be interesting for you and "give you pleasure to use"?

That´s just a suggestion of course, I really have not intention to make everyone liking S30V, just cause I do... It´s just that even in my quite limited experience I found, that S30V done by different companies really can behave quite differently: I find it easy to sharpen in my Spydercos, while still having more than adequate edge holding (for my needs); on the other hand, the S30V my white river backpacker is made of (a knife I really like, don´t get me wrong), is really notiveable harder to sharpen (again: I am not good enough at sharpening to really beeing able to distinguish precisely how much of this is really plainly due to the steel, and what amount maybe is due to other factors)

[youmakemehole]

what is your recommended way of brining our the best in S30V.

All steels with a lot of vanadium carbide will require diamonds or cbn to get a good edge. A sharpening platform like the Spyderco triangle or Lansky is necessary for keeping the stones at the right angles. Diamond and cbn can be expensive, esespecially for those sharpening systems, you may feel like you arent getting substantial diamond/cbn for the price you pay. However for someone just starting out with sharpening, its probably the only way you can get a very professional edge with very little experience.

If you have a little practice with ceramic rods or small pocketstones, I would highly recommend you check out amazon for rods and pocket stones made out of something called sintered ruby. It is almost as hard as CBN and diamond, it will cut vanadium carbides and even leave it with a very polished finish. Only thing is sintered ruby comes at around 4k grit and nothing else, so it can be both your start and finish if your edge needs a touch up, but if you need to remove more material or want a finer edge you will have to find those in other sharpening mediums. If you are creative enough you can take those sintered ruby stones from amazon and fashion something that works in your Lansky or other sharpening system you decide to get. On a side note, finishing S30V at 4k is more than enough, you won't need S30V any finer than that usually.

If you are willing to spend a few extra bucks to get something proper and capable for everything you will need to sharpen supersteels, I'd suggest the KME system that comes with diamond stones, or the Spyderco Sharpmaker with the diamond and CBN rods on top as well. Let me know if you still have any questions!

[Wartstein]

what is your recommended way of brining our the best in S30V.

All steels with a lot of vanadium carbide will require diamonds or cbn to get a good edge. A sharpening platform like the Spyderco triangle or Lansky is necessary for keeping the stones at the right angles. Diamond and cbn can be expensive, esespecially for those sharpening systems, you may feel like you arent getting substantial diamond/cbn for the price you pay. However for someone just starting out with sharpening, its probably the only way you can get a very professional edge with very little experience.

If you have a little practice with ceramic rods or small pocketstones, I would highly recommend you check out amazon for rods and pocket stones made out of something called sintered ruby. It is almost as hard as CBN and diamond, it will cut vanadium carbides and even leave it with a very polished finish. Only thing is sintered ruby comes at around 4k grit and nothing else, so it can be both your start and finish if your edge needs a touch up, but if you need to remove more material or want a finer edge you will have to find those in other sharpening mediums. If you are creative enough you can take those sintered ruby stones from amazon and fashion something that works in your Lansky or other sharpening system you decide to get. On a side note, finishing S30V at 4k is more than enough, you won't need S30V any finer than that usually.

If you are willing to spend a few extra bucks to get something proper and capable for everything you will need to sharpen supersteels, I'd suggest the KME system that comes with diamond stones, or the Spyderco Sharpmaker with the diamond and CBN rods on top as well. Let me know if you still have any questions!

May I ask a question that comes to my mind reading your post? :

- I have (only) basic sharpening skills and (only) a sharpmaker in the standard configuration (white and brown rods), plus a leather strop
- So I do NOT have any CBN or diamond devices and am NOT a master sharpener
- With my (limited) equipment I achieve sharpening results on S30V that are totally fine for me (shaving armhair easily, cutting paper cleanly...)
- Now: Is that because I never let get my blades REALLY dull?
OR am I unknowingly missing even much better results I could achieve if I had diamond / CBN rods?

I´d appreciate a short reply!
-

[youmakemehole]

what is your recommended way of brining our the best in S30V.

All steels with a lot of vanadium carbide will require diamonds or cbn to get a good edge. A sharpening platform like the Spyderco triangle or Lansky is necessary for keeping the stones at the right angles. Diamond and cbn can be expensive, esespecially for those sharpening systems, you may feel like you arent getting substantial diamond/cbn for the price you pay. However for someone just starting out with sharpening, its probably the only way you can get a very professional edge with very little experience.

If you have a little practice with ceramic rods or small pocketstones, I would highly recommend you check out amazon for rods and pocket stones made out of something called sintered ruby. It is almost as hard as CBN and diamond, it will cut vanadium carbides and even leave it with a very polished finish. Only thing is sintered ruby comes at around 4k grit and nothing else, so it can be both your start and finish if your edge needs a touch up, but if you need to remove more material or want a finer edge you will have to find those in other sharpening mediums. If you are creative enough you can take those sintered ruby stones from amazon and fashion something that works in your Lansky or other sharpening system you decide to get. On a side note, finishing S30V at 4k is more than enough, you won't need S30V any finer than that usually.

If you are willing to spend a few extra bucks to get something proper and capable for everything you will need to sharpen supersteels, I'd suggest the KME system that comes with diamond stones, or the Spyderco Sharpmaker with the diamond and CBN rods on top as well. Let me know if you still have any questions!

May I ask a question that comes to my mind reading your post? :

- I have (only) basic sharpening skills and (only) a sharpmaker in the standard configuration (white and brown rods), plus a leather strop
- So I do NOT have any CBN or diamond devices and am NOT a master sharpener
- With my (limited) equipment I achieve sharpening results on S30V that are totally fine for me (shaving armhair easily, cutting paper cleanly...)
- Now: Is that because I never let get my blades REALLY dull?
OR am I unknowingly missing even much better results I could achieve if I had diamond / CBN rods?

I´d appreciate a short reply!
-

If you can get very good results with your current setup but for some reason cannot with S30V, I can guarantee you it is due to the lack of diamond/cbn. Vanadium carbide is very hard, harder than most stones and compounds. So if you use sharpeners that are not hard enough, you may eitehrt not sharpen your knife at all or get something called carbide tear out which is where you erode away the softer surrounding metal with your sharpeners and then end up with a very unstable edge of vanadium carbide that end up all popping off since they arent supported well. I am not a master sharpener either - I use an edge pro with shapton stones as well as other random diamond/ceramic/sintered ruby knick knacks. Regardless though certain steels require the proper sharpening mediums or they just will not turn out optimal. If you stick some cbn rods in your sharpmaker your S30V might just become your most favorite steel, sit sounds like itd be worth your time!

[Wartstein]

what is your recommended way of brining our the best in S30V.

All steels with a lot of vanadium carbide will require diamonds or cbn to get a good edge. A sharpening platform like the Spyderco triangle or Lansky is necessary for keeping the stones at the right angles. Diamond and cbn can be expensive, esespecially for those sharpening systems, you may feel like you arent getting substantial diamond/cbn for the price you pay. However for someone just starting out with sharpening, its probably the only way you can get a very professional edge with very little experience.

If you have a little practice with ceramic rods or small pocketstones, I would highly recommend you check out amazon for rods and pocket stones made out of something called sintered ruby. It is almost as hard as CBN and diamond, it will cut vanadium carbides and even leave it with a very polished finish. Only thing is sintered ruby comes at around 4k grit and nothing else, so it can be both your start and finish if your edge needs a touch up, but if you need to remove more material or want a finer edge you will have to find those in other sharpening mediums. If you are creative enough you can take those sintered ruby stones from amazon and fashion something that works in your Lansky or other sharpening system you decide to get. On a side note, finishing S30V at 4k is more than enough, you won't need S30V any finer than that usually.

If you are willing to spend a few extra bucks to get something proper and capable for everything you will need to sharpen supersteels, I'd suggest the KME system that comes with diamond stones, or the Spyderco Sharpmaker with the diamond and CBN rods on top as well. Let me know if you still have any questions!

May I ask a question that comes to my mind reading your post? :

- I have (only) basic sharpening skills and (only) a sharpmaker in the standard configuration (white and brown rods), plus a leather strop
- So I do NOT have any CBN or diamond devices and am NOT a master sharpener
- With my (limited) equipment I achieve sharpening results on S30V that are totally fine for me (shaving armhair easily, cutting paper cleanly...)
- Now: Is that because I never let get my blades REALLY dull?
OR am I unknowingly missing even much better results I could achieve if I had diamond / CBN rods?

I´d appreciate a short reply!
-

If you can get very good results with your current setup but for some reason cannot with S30V, I can guarantee you it is due to the lack of diamond/cbn. Vanadium carbide is very hard, harder than most stones and compounds. So if you use sharpeners that are not hard enough, you may eitehrt not sharpen your knife at all or get something called carbide tear out which is where you erode away the softer surrounding metal with your sharpeners and then end up with a very unstable edge of vanadium carbide that end up all popping off since they arent supported well. I am not a master sharpener either - I use an edge pro with shapton stones as well as other random diamond/ceramic/sintered ruby knick knacks. Regardless though certain steels require the proper sharpening mediums or they just will not turn out optimal. If you stick some cbn rods in your sharpmaker your S30V might just become your most favorite steel, sit sounds like itd be worth your time!

Thanks a lot for reply, appreciate that!

But I think I did not make my point clear enough in my question:

In fact I DO get very good results (for my needs) on S30V just with my basic sharpmaker and NO CBN- or diamond- rods... I was wondering, if that is due to that I never let get my blade REALLY dull, or if I could achieve even BETTER results using a CBN- or diamond rod. As said, I am really satisfied with my results on brown and white rods and always thought using a diamond rod would just result in FASTER, but not in BETTER sharpening (concerning the results...)