Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

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BigKenbo
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Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#1

Post by BigKenbo »

So there i was having decided i needed a police 4! My thinking was k390 in a 4+ inch folder! Sounds great!!! I have enduras in ZDP and HAP40 and was getting excited about the new knife! Checked the usual online retailers (NOT amazon lol) and found it costs 200 dollars. Now i dont consider myself a miserly sort, **** when i took the plunge i bought S110v and maxamet natives on the same order. Sorry for the rant, but i will not be spending 200 bucks on a police 4 i dont care if the blade is made of sapphire. I have any number of fixed blades in this size with perfectly wonderful steels. This is the first Spyderco i have found that is just not nearly worth the money for me. I am dismayed, and somewhat dissapointed. Not saying it isnt worth more than an FRP endura, but it truly just isnt worth very nearly twice what my HAP40 endura cost. Guess ill mark the Native chief off my list too.
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
SG89
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#2

Post by SG89 »

What about the upcoming FRN Police 4?
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BigKenbo
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#3

Post by BigKenbo »

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:17 pm
What about the upcoming FRN Police 4?
I may very well be interested. It is not lost on my however that the native LW in maxamet was within 12 dollars of the G10 full frame in S110V. So im thinking hey if they dropped 25 dollars on the police that would make it $176 which is palatable, but not necessarily low enough to induce me to spring for something that isnt really a revelation compared to other products available from Spyderco.
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#4

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Your Endura would be $200 also if they sold one in G10. That is why there is no G10 Endura. I suggest you wait for the frn version before you write the model off completely. It will be much more affordable.

Also, don't use Maxamet as a reference point. They are pricey.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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ferider
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#5

Post by ferider »

Walmart has the P4 for $188.47, free shipping.

The cheapest comparable/available Endura (Pakkawood = G10, metal back-spacer) is C10WDP for $168.97 at knifecenter.

Don't forget, there were price increases beginning of the year.
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#6

Post by vivi »

It might not be a revelation, but it is the best folder they make IMO.

The price is pretty high, but the Police 4 is more comparable to a sprint run G10 Endura than a standard FRN. The price of a HAP40 G10 Endura 4 would likely be over $160.

The Police 3 was a lot easier to swallow at $125, but prices increase over the years and there's the steel to consider.

For me it was worth it because it's the knife I want in my pocket every day. If it was one I only carried once in a while, I might feel like you.

I'd guess the FRN/VG10 version will retail for about $99-120. Maybe hold out for that version?
:unicorn
BigKenbo
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#7

Post by BigKenbo »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Your Endura would be $200 also if they sold one in G10. That is why there is no G10 Endura. I suggest you wait for the frn version before you write the model off completely. It will be much more affordable.

Also, don't use Maxamet as a reference point. They are pricey.
The maxamet is pricey for sure. But its not like they give away the S110V. I figured the price point was due to the cost of the k390. But again, understanding how pricey the steels are, i just dont see the added value. The endura has a steel frame. So if the difference in frp handle scales and g10 handle scales is literally 96 dollars and change, i am back around to feeling like 3/4 inch of bohler steel and g10 scales is not worth 100 bucks. Not being argumentative, just tossing my thoughts out.
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
BigKenbo
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#8

Post by BigKenbo »

ferider wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:15 pm
Walmart has the P4 for $188.47, free shipping.

The cheapest comparable/available Endura (Pakkawood = G10, metal back-spacer) is C10WDP for $168.97 at knifecenter.

Don't forget, there were price increases beginning of the year.
I purchased my ZDP-189 for 120. Which they still are. The HAP40 is a zome handle from Cutlery shoppe. Less than 104 dollars. All im saying is. Both steel liners. One has 3/4 inch more bohler steel than the other, and g10 scales instead of frp. 81 dollars for 3/4 inch of steel and g10 handle scales, is enough to make me do something crazy...like posting on a forum! Lol!
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
BigKenbo
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#9

Post by BigKenbo »

Vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:02 pm
It might not be a revelation, but it is the best folder they make IMO.

The price is pretty high, but the Police 4 is more comparable to a sprint run G10 Endura than a standard FRN. The price of a HAP40 G10 Endura 4 would likely be over $160.

The Police 3 was a lot easier to swallow at $125, but prices increase over the years and there's the steel to consider.

For me it was worth it because it's the knife I want in my pocket every day. If it was one I only carried once in a while, I might feel like you.
I certainly do not intend to say the p4 isnt way cool! It is or i wouldnt have considered it. But the endura is also steel liners but frp scales. They literally are selling ZDP enduras for 120. And i got my HAP40 endura from Cutlery shoppe for 103 and change. All im saying is 3/4 inch of k390 and g10 scales do not make it 80 plus dollars better or cooler than the ZDP or 97 dollars better or cooler than the HAP40. Just my dumb opinion. But i am willing to share it! :D
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
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Cambertree
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#10

Post by Cambertree »

Yeah it is pricey.

I guess Japan used to have relatively cheap labour when Spyderco and other US makers started working with Seki manufacturers.

Not any more.

Also exporting steel from Europe or the US to Japan ain’t gonna be cheap.

Even though the blade length seemed like overkill for my purposes, I wanted one straight away for the K390 steel. I initially balked at the price too.

Now I have one, it was worth every penny.

My advice if you really want to try the P4, would be to put a ‘wanted’ post in the usual places, for one on the secondary market. I’ve noticed that knives in tool steels sometimes get moved on by the ‘knives as man-jewellery’ crowd, once they develop a bit of the inevitable patina or light pitting.

It’s how I got my GB1 and Police 4. A little elbow grease and sharpening and they’re better than new.

The HAP40 Endura is a great knife, but the Police 4 is on another level.

Gratuitous pic:

Image
Last edited by Cambertree on Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#11

Post by vivi »

BigKenbo wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:41 pm
Vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:02 pm
It might not be a revelation, but it is the best folder they make IMO.

The price is pretty high, but the Police 4 is more comparable to a sprint run G10 Endura than a standard FRN. The price of a HAP40 G10 Endura 4 would likely be over $160.

The Police 3 was a lot easier to swallow at $125, but prices increase over the years and there's the steel to consider.

For me it was worth it because it's the knife I want in my pocket every day. If it was one I only carried once in a while, I might feel like you.
I certainly do not intend to say the p4 isnt way cool! It is or i wouldnt have considered it. But the endura is also steel liners but frp scales. They literally are selling ZDP enduras for 120. And i got my HAP40 endura from Cutlery shoppe for 103 and change. All im saying is 3/4 inch of k390 and g10 scales do not make it 80 plus dollars better or cooler than the ZDP or 97 dollars better or cooler than the HAP40. Just my dumb opinion. But i am willing to share it! :D
Everyone has their own value system.

Some would point out that FRN Cara Caras are $20, the same size as Enduras, and come in a steel that works just fine for an EDC ;)
:unicorn
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#12

Post by BigKenbo »

Vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:06 pm
BigKenbo wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:41 pm
Vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:02 pm
It might not be a revelation, but it is the best folder they make IMO.

The price is pretty high, but the Police 4 is more comparable to a sprint run G10 Endura than a standard FRN. The price of a HAP40 G10 Endura 4 would likely be over $160.

The Police 3 was a lot easier to swallow at $125, but prices increase over the years and there's the steel to consider.

For me it was worth it because it's the knife I want in my pocket every day. If it was one I only carried once in a while, I might feel like you.
I certainly do not intend to say the p4 isnt way cool! It is or i wouldnt have considered it. But the endura is also steel liners but frp scales. They literally are selling ZDP enduras for 120. And i got my HAP40 endura from Cutlery shoppe for 103 and change. All im saying is 3/4 inch of k390 and g10 scales do not make it 80 plus dollars better or cooler than the ZDP or 97 dollars better or cooler than the HAP40. Just my dumb opinion. But i am willing to share it! :D
Everyone has their own value system.

Some would point out that FRN Cara Caras are $20, the same size as Enduras, and come in a steel that works just fine for an EDC ;)
Indeed lmao!!! So true. I just note that the difference between a LW s110v native and the g10 version is exactly 35 bucks. So is 3/4 inch of bohler uddeholm k390, and 35 bucks worth of G10 100 dollars better than ZDP or HAP40? I just cant decide that it is. And in no way am i denigrating the P4 i just kind of feel like when i look at the price differences it is not equitable. I mean im not comparing vg-10 or 8cr to k390. Id say from the info i can get my hands on that they are all 3 truly excellent steels. Additionally i love my maxamet enough to pay 250 for a P4 or even a millie in maxamet, but my experiences have given me a true affinity for it. If i pry open my fist for the P4 k390 maybe it will produce the same kind of appreciation. Thanks as always
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#13

Post by vivi »

I was pretty skeptical of K390 at first, but its become a favorite. Haven't used HAP40 but ZDP is a great steel, I can understand questioning needing more than that.
:unicorn
BigKenbo
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#14

Post by BigKenbo »

Vivi wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm
I was pretty skeptical of K390 at first, but its become a favorite. Haven't used HAP40 but ZDP is a great steel, I can understand questioning needing more than that.
The HAP40 is a touch easier to sharpen and wears the edge a touch faster than the ZDP-189. The differences could be closer than what you might get from a slightly subpar sharpening on one or the other. If you like a patina'd edge id say grab some HAP40. Both are good enough i have been shopping for kitchen knives in both. And both will cut past where your hand cramps up! :D
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
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Tucson Tom
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#15

Post by Tucson Tom »

The Police 4 is a pretty svelte knife. (There is a word I don't use often). I mean, you don't realize until you get it in hand how refined it is.

I guess I am saying, you definitely get what you pay for. The K390 is what pushed me over the edge, but then when I had it in hand I realized how special it was. It surprised me in many ways. I had expected a monster of an albatross (if you want that, check out the Manix XL), but the Police 4 is sleek. The steel liners and G10 make it a whole different beast than an FRN knife.

On the other hand, don't feel compelled to spend money. As someone who spends more than he can in any way justify on knives, I don't want to encourage anyone else to be irresponsible.
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#16

Post by bearfacedkiller »

You are way overthinking it all. It isn't really steel choice or the extra 1/4 inch or so of blade length it is just the g10. It has been discussed many times that the G10 knives made in Seki lack value. It has unfortunately killed a few great models. The D'Allara3, Q-ball and Ouroborous for example.

Compare the G10/ZDP Stretch2 with the frn/ZDP Stretch2 and you will see that simply making a model with G10 there will add a huge up charge.

Like I said, a G10 Endura in a premium steel would be almost as expensive as the G10 Police4. If you wait for the frn Police4 I suspect you will find the price noticably lower than the G10 version.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
BigKenbo
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#17

Post by BigKenbo »

Tucson Tom wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:30 am
The Police 4 is a pretty svelte knife. (There is a word I don't use often). I mean, you don't realize until you get it in hand how refined it is.

I guess I am saying, you definitely get what you pay for. The K390 is what pushed me over the edge, but then when I had it in hand I realized how special it was. It surprised me in many ways. I had expected a monster of an albatross (if you want that, check out the Manix XL), but the Police 4 is sleek. The steel liners and G10 make it a whole different beast than an FRN knife.

On the other hand, don't feel compelled to spend money. As someone who spends more than he can in any way justify on knives, I don't want to encourage anyone else to be irresponsible.
I appreciate the response! I have heard great things about k390. But other than HAP40 giving a patina pretty quickly the ZDP and HAP40 have generated their fair share of oohs and aahs as well. Which is how i came to feel the P4 is overpriced for me. Its not that i cant, **** the wife told me to go ahead, i just feel like its priced at a maxamet point. Or REX86/REX121 type pricing, i may not realize how cool k390 truly is, but i have not heard it compared to the other truly superlative and expensive steels.
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#18

Post by BigKenbo »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:35 am
You are way overthinking it all. It isn't really steel choice or the extra 1/4 inch or so of blade length it is just the g10. It has been discussed many times that the G10 knives made in Seki lack value. It has unfortunately killed a few great models. The D'Allara3, Q-ball and Ouroborous for example.

Compare the G10/ZDP Stretch2 with the frn/ZDP Stretch2 and you will see that simply making a model with G10 there will add a huge up charge.

Like I said, a G10 Endura in a premium steel would be almost as expensive as the G10 Police4. If you wait for the frn Police4 I suspect you will find the price noticably lower than the G10 version.
If the difference between a LW native and the full linered G10 version is 35 dollars why do you believe it will be substantially les expensive? Genuine question, no argument. Those prices are for the S110V versions. If my ZDP endura was upcharged 75 dollars it would still be 7 dollars less than the P4. And judging from the price of ZDP chef knives i believe ZDP is priced at a fairly premium level as well.
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#19

Post by bearfacedkiller »

In this case don't make comparisons to US made knives and don't make steel comparisons. That is missing the point which is that for some unexplained reason Japanese G10 is super expensive.

It is simple, there has been a clear history of the Seki City knives that use G10 being very expensive while the frn knives made there have been much much more affordable. I cannot explain why but the pattern is undeniable. The Police4 should be no different.

The G10 Stretch is like $75 more than its frn counterpart. Would you buy a frn Police4 if it was $75 cheaper than the G10 version? I would. I predict that the frn Police will come in around $140 depending on steel choice.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Re: Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

#20

Post by anagarika »

I was excited initially too about P4 FRN.

OP’s post has me thinking with Enduras and Cara Caras I have, plus CS Broken Skull (longer blade similar to P4, thin & lightweight).
Will a P4 FRN at 140$ be good buy for me? :o
Chris :spyder:
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