Im keeping my enduras. No to the police 4

[sal]

Hi Kenbo,

Japanese G-10 hasn't been a solution. Availability was limited and cost was very high. Chinese G-10 was available, but quality was lower and is complicated by counterfeiting. It's something w're always working on. As mentioned, current solution is FRN in Seki. That's why there is no G-10 Endela or Rockjumper and the Police 4 in G-10 is not likely to be re-run.

sal

[BigKenbo]

it isnt Spyderco that has me aggravated. Its the dam retailers teying to gouge us. But it would seeem everyone is ok with that. More importantly i am apparently supposed to be ok with that. And recognize, i guess, that letting them gouge me and everyone else should be something i put up with quietly and with aplomb.

Ok, i'll bite.. :P

How are the retailers trying to gouge us? They all follow MAP pricing, which is based on the MSRP that Spyderco sets, and their profits are pretty low all things considered. Especially if I buy with a % off coupon and get FREE shipping like most retailers offer. They pay for the shipping out of their profits. They also have to carry $millions of $$ in inventory, have employees, deal with loss and theft on fraudulent returns when people swap out for a counterfeit knife and return that or claim their package never arrived, etc. I'm sure you know how business works.

I honestly would not want to be a knife dealer aside from being able to drop a bunch of 3V exclusive Natives, Militaries, etc! :D

Actually if one retailer charges 188 and another group charges 201, i would suggest gently, that they may not in fact be following the pricing you referenced. Wallyworld provides free shipping as well.

[Albatross]

it isnt Spyderco that has me aggravated. Its the dam retailers teying to gouge us. But it would seeem everyone is ok with that. More importantly i am apparently supposed to be ok with that. And recognize, i guess, that letting them gouge me and everyone else should be something i put up with quietly and with aplomb.

Ok, i'll bite.. :P

How are the retailers trying to gouge us? They all follow MAP pricing, which is based on the MSRP that Spyderco sets, and their profits are pretty low all things considered. Especially if I buy with a % off coupon and get FREE shipping like most retailers offer. They pay for the shipping out of their profits. They also have to carry $millions of $$ in inventory, have employees, deal with loss and theft on fraudulent returns when people swap out for a counterfeit knife and return that or claim their package never arrived, etc. I'm sure you know how business works.

I honestly would not want to be a knife dealer aside from being able to drop a bunch of 3V exclusive Natives, Militaries, etc! :D

Actually if one retailer charges 188 and another group charges 201, i would suggest gently, that they may not in fact be following the pricing you referenced. Wallyworld provides free shipping as well.

Walmart routinely sells products below cost, losing money along the way, as an aggressive sales tactic, to muscle competition out of the way. Being a multi-billion dollar company, they can break some eggs to make an omelet. That's not even getting into the more serious issues with Walmart's other shady sales and buying practices; things like making deals with companies to get special packaging and/or prices, in a binding fashion, preventing others in the sales industry from competing.

They should never be used as a measure of appropriate pricing.

To be clear, I am in no way suggesting Spyderco made a deal with Walmart, for special pricing.

[BigKenbo]

I’ve just my 1st Endura, the SuperGold version, and wonder whether I’ll need the frn P4 now.

I feel the same. The Endura gives me all I need, at a perfect, long, but not TOO long bladelength... but then, the thread I started very recently ("advantages of 4 " plus blades" viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83520), and the really great and thougtfull answers there made me kind of think again.. guess I'll HAVE to try a Police lw now eventually...

I commented and very much enjoyed your thread on 4"+ knives! Like i said earlier, if they get an FRP P4 in around 140-150 bucks i might need 2 lol!

Thanks, and yes I know you commented on my thread. One of your comments was about sd and that 4" plus blades would be better in that capacity, right?!
There were many good and thoughtfull contirbutions in that thread (including yours), I just did not get round yet to reply yet to everone I plan to (in my "4 inch..."thread)
Anyway, as said I guess I´ll have to try a Police lw eventually.. despite I always felt Endura length would be perfect for me (and nothing really shorter, but also nothing that´s really longer). Will be a hard decision though, cause there will also be the Chief in the realm of really long folders (which, just by it´s looks on the pics, I might even prefer slightly over the Police lw... we´ll see... )

Yup that was me on the SD. Im actually even more excited about the Native Chief. I wonder how many steels ill have to buy though lol! LW P4 is on my list for sure though

[BigKenbo]

Hi Kenbo,

Japanese G-10 hasn't been a solution. Availability was limited and cost was very high. Chinese G-10 was available, but quality was lower and is complicated by counterfeiting. It's something w're always working on. As mentioned, current solution is FRN in Seki. That's why there is no G-10 Endela or Rockjumper and the Police 4 in G-10 is not likely to be re-run.

sal

Awesome info thanks! Im not smart i guess, it just never occured to me the G10 wouldnt be Japanese. Clears a lot up for me anyway.

[BigKenbo]

it isnt Spyderco that has me aggravated. Its the dam retailers teying to gouge us. But it would seeem everyone is ok with that. More importantly i am apparently supposed to be ok with that. And recognize, i guess, that letting them gouge me and everyone else should be something i put up with quietly and with aplomb.

Ok, i'll bite.. :P

How are the retailers trying to gouge us? They all follow MAP pricing, which is based on the MSRP that Spyderco sets, and their profits are pretty low all things considered. Especially if I buy with a % off coupon and get FREE shipping like most retailers offer. They pay for the shipping out of their profits. They also have to carry $millions of $$ in inventory, have employees, deal with loss and theft on fraudulent returns when people swap out for a counterfeit knife and return that or claim their package never arrived, etc. I'm sure you know how business works.

I honestly would not want to be a knife dealer aside from being able to drop a bunch of 3V exclusive Natives, Militaries, etc! :D

Actually if one retailer charges 188 and another group charges 201, i would suggest gently, that they may not in fact be following the pricing you referenced. Wallyworld provides free shipping as well.

Walmart routinely sells products below cost, losing money along the way, as an aggressive sales tactic, to muscle competition out of the way. Being a multi-billion dollar company, they can break some eggs to make an omelet. That's not even getting into the more serious issues with Walmart's other shady sales and buying practices; things like making deals with companies to get special packaging and/or prices, in a binding fashion, preventing others in the sales industry from competing.

They should never be used as a measure of appropriate pricing.

To be clear, I am in no way suggesting Spyderco made a deal with Walmart, for special pricing.

As i said not all retailera follow the MAP pricing you referenced. The P4 is not (as far as their website shows) a knife they stock in store. In fact if i wanted to pick one up in-store i would have to drive literally twice as far as i live from Walmarts home office. I appreciate you recognizing the point about not all retailers following the MAP pricing.

[steelcity16]

it isnt Spyderco that has me aggravated. Its the dam retailers teying to gouge us. But it would seeem everyone is ok with that. More importantly i am apparently supposed to be ok with that. And recognize, i guess, that letting them gouge me and everyone else should be something i put up with quietly and with aplomb.

Ok, i'll bite.. :P

How are the retailers trying to gouge us? They all follow MAP pricing, which is based on the MSRP that Spyderco sets, and their profits are pretty low all things considered. Especially if I buy with a % off coupon and get FREE shipping like most retailers offer. They pay for the shipping out of their profits. They also have to carry $millions of $$ in inventory, have employees, deal with loss and theft on fraudulent returns when people swap out for a counterfeit knife and return that or claim their package never arrived, etc. I'm sure you know how business works.

I honestly would not want to be a knife dealer aside from being able to drop a bunch of 3V exclusive Natives, Militaries, etc! :D

Actually if one retailer charges 188 and another group charges 201, i would suggest gently, that they may not in fact be following the pricing you referenced. Wallyworld provides free shipping as well.

Right, so that is WalMart not following the MAP pricing mandate set by Spyderco. Spyderco may end up removing them as an authorized dealer because of this. Dealers aren't allowed to advertise prices below 35% discount from the MSRP. Don't blame retailers for selling at the lowest price they are allowed to because WalMart isn't following guidelines.

$201.50 is the lowest price allowed to be advertised using the MAP pricing guidelines of 35% below MSRP. Most of the big dealers sell at that price with FREE shipping. Some even offer free knives or other products with purchases over a certain amount. If a dealer is charging $210 or $220 or something for a Police 4, then yes, they are trying to squeeze a little more juice out of it, which is perfectly fine because you are not forced to buy from that dealer. They are allowed to charge more than MAP if they want. They can charge MSRP if they want. Heck all dealers could conspire to charge us full MSRP for all Spydercos, so be happy that most do in fact sell at the MINIMUM price allowed, plus ship it to your door in 2 days or less for FREE.

The only pricing I have seen by an actual knife dealer that I consider shady is Bento Box Shop, who routinely prices certain hot knives well above MAP based on rarity and secondary market pricing. Not to mention their no return policy and $14 for s&h. But who really cares? Don't support them by buying from them if you don't agree with these tactics.

Like I said, you could get one from eBay for around $150 if you wait for a 20% off coupon and throw some best offers out to sellers on top of that. Or you could jump on that deal from WalMart. Or wait for a Police FRN, which i would also guess will come in at $140 or less, and then do the eBay coupon on that to get it for even less.

[Wartstein]

Hi Kenbo,

Japanese G-10 hasn't been a solution. Availability was limited and cost was very high. Chinese G-10 was available, but quality was lower and is complicated by counterfeiting. It's something w're always working on. As mentioned, current solution is FRN in Seki. That's why there is no G-10 Endela or Rockjumper and the Police 4 in G-10 is not likely to be re-run.

sal

I always find it amazing and kind of an eye-opener to read about the very manifold difficulties and issues a knife company (and not only KNIFE companies for sure) has to deal with. To be honest, I never was aware of, or thought about, that something like G10 could be limited in one country, maybe too expensive in the next and of too-low-quality in the third or even could be counterfeited in the large quantities a manufacturer would need...

/ The good thing for me personally: I really have no objections concerning Seki knives and I like FRN...

[BigKenbo]

it isnt Spyderco that has me aggravated. Its the dam retailers teying to gouge us. But it would seeem everyone is ok with that. More importantly i am apparently supposed to be ok with that. And recognize, i guess, that letting them gouge me and everyone else should be something i put up with quietly and with aplomb.

Ok, i'll bite.. :P

How are the retailers trying to gouge us? They all follow MAP pricing, which is based on the MSRP that Spyderco sets, and their profits are pretty low all things considered. Especially if I buy with a % off coupon and get FREE shipping like most retailers offer. They pay for the shipping out of their profits. They also have to carry $millions of $$ in inventory, have employees, deal with loss and theft on fraudulent returns when people swap out for a counterfeit knife and return that or claim their package never arrived, etc. I'm sure you know how business works.

I honestly would not want to be a knife dealer aside from being able to drop a bunch of 3V exclusive Natives, Militaries, etc! :D

Actually if one retailer charges 188 and another group charges 201, i would suggest gently, that they may not in fact be following the pricing you referenced. Wallyworld provides free shipping as well.

Right, so that is WalMart not following the MAP pricing mandate set by Spyderco. Spyderco may end up removing them as an authorized dealer because of this. Dealers aren't allowed to advertise prices below 35% discount from the MSRP. Don't blame retailers for selling at the lowest price they are allowed to because WalMart isn't following guidelines.

$201.50 is the lowest price allowed to be advertised using the MAP pricing guidelines of 35% below MSRP. Most of the big dealers sell at that price with FREE shipping. Some even offer free knives or other products with purchases over a certain amount. If a dealer is charging $210 or $220 or something for a Police 4, then yes, they are trying to squeeze a little more juice out of it, which is perfectly fine because you are not forced to buy from that dealer. They are allowed to charge more than MAP if they want. They can charge MSRP if they want. Heck all dealers could conspire to charge us full MSRP for all Spydercos, so be happy that most do in fact sell at the MINIMUM price allowed, plus ship it to your door in 2 days or less for FREE.

The only pricing I have seen by an actual knife dealer that I consider shady is Bento Box Shop, who routinely prices certain hot knives well above MAP based on rarity and secondary market pricing. Not to mention their no return policy and $14 for s&h. But who really cares? Don't support them by buying from them if you don't agree with these tactics.

Like I said, you could get one from eBay for around $150 if you wait for a 20% off coupon and throw some best offers out to sellers on top of that. Or you could jump on that deal from WalMart. Or wait for a Police FRN, which i would also guess will come in at $140 or less, and then do the eBay coupon on that to get it for even less.

Appreciate the genuine discussion. I figure the LW is what i will hunger for. Sal provided some important (at least for me) information, regarding how the G10 from Seki winds up being a significantly more expensive proposition than here in the USA. In fact what i learned from him, may prompt me to purchase the G10 P4 anyway, because i may think a few things about some retailers, but ultimately now i understand Spyderco's unique challenges with G10 knives from Seki, and even if i am late to the party i do support their efforts.

[BigKenbo]

Hi Kenbo,

Japanese G-10 hasn't been a solution. Availability was limited and cost was very high. Chinese G-10 was available, but quality was lower and is complicated by counterfeiting. It's something w're always working on. As mentioned, current solution is FRN in Seki. That's why there is no G-10 Endela or Rockjumper and the Police 4 in G-10 is not likely to be re-run.

sal

I always find it amazing and kind of an eye-opener to read about the very manifold difficulties and issues a knife company (and not only KNIFE companies for sure) has to deal with. To be honest, I never was aware of, or thought about, that something like G10 could be limited in one country, maybe too expensive in the next and of too-low-quality in the third or even could be counterfeited in the large quantities a manufacturer would need...

/ The good thing for me personally: I really have no objections concerning Seki knives and I like FRN...

Indeed, it just never occured to me they wouldnt be able to local source the material. Throw in tarrifs, shipping, and not to mention the TIME delay making it take far longer to realize profits from the inveatment, and i find myself in utter sympathy to Spyderco's unique challenges with this.

[Wartstein]

Indeed, it just never occured to me they wouldnt be able to local source the material. Throw in tarrifs, shipping, and not to mention the TIME delay making it take far longer to realize profits from the inveatment, and i find myself in utter sympathy to Spyderco's unique challenges with this.

Well said.

[steelcity16]

Appreciate the genuine discussion. I figure the LW is what i will hunger for. Sal provided some important (at least for me) information, regarding how the G10 from Seki winds up being a significantly more expensive proposition than here in the USA. In fact what i learned from him, may prompt me to purchase the G10 P4 anyway, because i may think a few things about some retailers, but ultimately now i understand Spyderco's unique challenges with G10 knives from Seki, and even if i am late to the party i do support their efforts.

I'm glad to hear you may purchase the G10 Police anyways. May I suggest supporting one of the many dealers that do offer us these great knives at the lowest price they are allowed? This keeps the lights on for them and allows them to bring us the great exclusive models that otherwise would never happen. My last 4 knives (2 exclusives, 2 standard models) have been purchased from BHQ, DLT, and Cutlery Shoppe. All great retailers with the lowest possible prices, free shipping, great customer service, and excellent exclusives that I want to see more of!

St Nick's knives is another great shop that I plan on patronizing more in 2019. Great group of guys and I want to see more of those Red G10/DLC 4V exclusives!

[BigKenbo]

Appreciate the genuine discussion. I figure the LW is what i will hunger for. Sal provided some important (at least for me) information, regarding how the G10 from Seki winds up being a significantly more expensive proposition than here in the USA. In fact what i learned from him, may prompt me to purchase the G10 P4 anyway, because i may think a few things about some retailers, but ultimately now i understand Spyderco's unique challenges with G10 knives from Seki, and even if i am late to the party i do support their efforts.

I'm glad to hear you may purchase the G10 Police anyways. May I suggest supporting one of the many dealers that do offer us these great knives at the lowest price they are allowed? This keeps the lights on for them and allows them to bring us the great exclusive models that otherwise would never happen. My last 4 knives (2 exclusives, 2 standard models) have been purchased from BHQ, DLT, and Cutlery Shoppe. All great retailers with the lowest possible prices, free shipping, great customer service, and excellent exclusives that I want to see more of!

St Nick's knives is another great shop that I plan on patronizing more in 2019. Great group of guys and I want to see more of those Red G10/DLC 4V exclusives!

I will probably use Cutlery Shoppe in fact. I dunno, i had some e-mail correspondence with them and was really impressed with the people i chatted with, so i just LIKE those guys. And i like orange lol! But yeah, as soon as Sal explained what the issue is with Seki G10 being so expensive, it makes sense. Telling me (it wasnt you) that the problem is i just dont understand, without any effort to explain so i CAN understand, well what can i say? Then i just feel a personal attack rather than a discussion or conversation, or even education. My hope with this thread was a genuine conversation about my issue and, gaining information. Me not understanding Sal's position doesnt make me stupid. I get it now. I might even BE dumb as a post, doesnt mean i appreciate others seeming to tell me i am. Again i do appreciate your efforts at communication. And hope i held up my end respectably AND respectfully.

[steelcity16]

Appreciate the genuine discussion. I figure the LW is what i will hunger for. Sal provided some important (at least for me) information, regarding how the G10 from Seki winds up being a significantly more expensive proposition than here in the USA. In fact what i learned from him, may prompt me to purchase the G10 P4 anyway, because i may think a few things about some retailers, but ultimately now i understand Spyderco's unique challenges with G10 knives from Seki, and even if i am late to the party i do support their efforts.

I'm glad to hear you may purchase the G10 Police anyways. May I suggest supporting one of the many dealers that do offer us these great knives at the lowest price they are allowed? This keeps the lights on for them and allows them to bring us the great exclusive models that otherwise would never happen. My last 4 knives (2 exclusives, 2 standard models) have been purchased from BHQ, DLT, and Cutlery Shoppe. All great retailers with the lowest possible prices, free shipping, great customer service, and excellent exclusives that I want to see more of!

St Nick's knives is another great shop that I plan on patronizing more in 2019. Great group of guys and I want to see more of those Red G10/DLC 4V exclusives!

I will probably use Cutlery Shoppe in fact. I dunno, i had some e-mail correspondence with them and was really impressed with the people i chatted with, so i just LIKE those guys. And i like orange lol! But yeah, as soon as Sal explained what the issue is with Seki G10 being so expensive, it makes sense. Telling me (it wasnt you) that the problem is i just dont understand, without any effort to explain so i CAN understand, well what can i say? Then i just feel a personal attack rather than a discussion or conversation, or even education. My hope with this thread was a genuine conversation about my issue and, gaining information. Me not understanding Sal's position doesnt make me stupid. I get it now. I might even BE dumb as a post, doesnt mean i appreciate others seeming to tell me i am. Again i do appreciate your efforts at communication. And hope i held up my end respectably AND respectfully.

Good to hear. I hope you get it and enjoy it and have a newfound respect for the value you get out of it. As Sal said, the G10 model may not be around much longer due to these issues. So the secondary market value will only go up after it is discontinued, especially since it has K390 steel.

One last thought on the dealers I mentioned. From what I can tell the dealers I referenced all price their exclusives in line with the MAP pricing. It has to be super depressing as a dealer to sell all of these knives at $150 and then watch them get flipped for $300 the same day. They could easily sell them for MSRP, but then people complain about price gouging and it hurts their reputation. So they are basically forced into selling them for far below what their supply/demand driven market value is. I guess it's nice to move $100K+ of inventory in 5 minutes, but still has to sting a little to see how much they are flipped for. :D

This is just one more reason we should support these dealers. They bring us amazing knives without gouging us at all when they easily could. I want them all to succeed in business and keep these exclusives rolling. I plan on making the vast majority of my future knife purchases through them as appreciation for the efforts they put into these exclusives.

[vivi]

You don't seem to understand that you're comparing apples to oranges and not apples to apples.

A Native is a small knife. It doesn't require as much raw material. It's a knife made with steel sourced in the same country in which its built.

The Police is a big knife. It has more raw materials. It's made with an ultra high end steel shipped across the world. The assembled knife then gets shipped back across the world before being sold.

You can't compare the two in the manner in which you are an arrive at informative results.

No one cares if you don't want to buy a Police. But we do care if you proclaim on Spydercos own website that they're price gouging because you fail to account for the difference in production steps between two models. Especially regarding a model that you've never tried, that many of us have, and feel is worth the asking price.

Ok bruh. The real issue with understanding is that you want to insist i see things your way. You keep trying to "correct " me. Stop it. My opinion is every but as valid as yours. So understand that, or silence yourself. Your thoughts are no more valid than mine and i find your condescending approach and preachy attitude corrosive. You havent attempted to understand what im saying all day. And THAT is ridiculous. And to attempt to deny that a 75 dollar upcharge on those stretch models is ridiculous, is frankly offensive and clearly demonstrates the fact that you care not for dialogue but rather soliloquy.

That's a rather infantile stance to take.

Not all opinions are created equal. Opinions can be based on facts. Or assumptions. Or hearsay. If you can't handle someone questioning an opinion of yours, I would suggest not sharing opinions in an open forum.

Good luck getting me to silence myself, lol.

guess you misunderstand. I am telling you speak to me as a person. Stop preaching. Infantile is assuming the inly view thats valid is yours. Im sorry i hurt your feelings. But retailers attempting to gouge customers isnt right. So are you so busy preaching you cant see that? Or too infantile?

lol.

So you spent three pages whining about Spyderco, then you try to say you meant the retailers?

Oh ok.

Then Sal chimes in and basically says, "Hey Ken, everyone telling you you're not looking at the big picture is on the money" and so now you're thinking about a P4?

How many people tried to tell you that you weren't accounting for all the costs associated with this model, and that a company started by a couple out of an old bread van probably isn't pulling the wool over your eyes?

My feelings aren't hurt, I think this is funny. Bruh :D

[T-1000]

I’m so pumped about this P4 frn I don’t what to do. MAybe we will even get a salt version down the road, holy crap! A 4.5” long spyderedge in H1 or lcn200, drooooool...

[steelcity16]

I’m so pumped about this P4 frn I don’t what to do. MAybe we will even get a salt version down the road, holy crap! A 4.5” long spyderedge in H1 or lcn200, drooooool...

Lol! Yeah, I am a HUGE Salt fan. Probably not going to buy a Police, but a Police LW Salt in H1 SE? Now we are talking.

[BigKenbo]

Ok bruh. The real issue with understanding is that you want to insist i see things your way. You keep trying to "correct " me. Stop it. My opinion is every but as valid as yours. So understand that, or silence yourself. Your thoughts are no more valid than mine and i find your condescending approach and preachy attitude corrosive. You havent attempted to understand what im saying all day. And THAT is ridiculous. And to attempt to deny that a 75 dollar upcharge on those stretch models is ridiculous, is frankly offensive and clearly demonstrates the fact that you care not for dialogue but rather soliloquy.

That's a rather infantile stance to take.

Not all opinions are created equal. Opinions can be based on facts. Or assumptions. Or hearsay. If you can't handle someone questioning an opinion of yours, I would suggest not sharing opinions in an open forum.

Good luck getting me to silence myself, lol.

guess you misunderstand. I am telling you speak to me as a person. Stop preaching. Infantile is assuming the inly view thats valid is yours. Im sorry i hurt your feelings. But retailers attempting to gouge customers isnt right. So are you so busy preaching you cant see that? Or too infantile?

lol.

So you spent three pages whining about Spyderco, then you try to say you meant the retailers?

Oh ok.

Then Sal chimes in and basically says, "Hey Ken, everyone telling you you're not looking at the big picture is on the money" and so now you're thinking about a P4?

How many people tried to tell you that you weren't accounting for all the costs associated with this model, and that a company started by a couple out of an old bread van probably isn't pulling the wool over your eyes?

My feelings aren't hurt, I think this is funny. Bruh :D

So you attempted to provide factual information like Sal did? No, so it waa still just you attempting to talk down to me. If your feelingswerent hurt why are you still worried about it? I obtained the information you wer unable to provide. Mught be time to let it go. Was probably time before your last post.

[BigKenbo]

Ok bruh. The real issue with understanding is that you want to insist i see things your way. You keep trying to "correct " me. Stop it. My opinion is every but as valid as yours. So understand that, or silence yourself. Your thoughts are no more valid than mine and i find your condescending approach and preachy attitude corrosive. You havent attempted to understand what im saying all day. And THAT is ridiculous. And to attempt to deny that a 75 dollar upcharge on those stretch models is ridiculous, is frankly offensive and clearly demonstrates the fact that you care not for dialogue but rather soliloquy.

That's a rather infantile stance to take.

Not all opinions are created equal. Opinions can be based on facts. Or assumptions. Or hearsay. If you can't handle someone questioning an opinion of yours, I would suggest not sharing opinions in an open forum.

Good luck getting me to silence myself, lol.

guess you misunderstand. I am telling you speak to me as a person. Stop preaching. Infantile is assuming the inly view thats valid is yours. Im sorry i hurt your feelings. But retailers attempting to gouge customers isnt right. So are you so busy preaching you cant see that? Or too infantile?

lol.

So you spent three pages whining about Spyderco, then you try to say you meant the retailers?

Oh ok.

Then Sal chimes in and basically says, "Hey Ken, everyone telling you you're not looking at the big picture is on the money" and so now you're thinking about a P4?

How many people tried to tell you that you weren't accounting for all the costs associated with this model, and that a company started by a couple out of an old bread van probably isn't pulling the wool over your eyes?

My feelings aren't hurt, I think this is funny. Bruh :D

Oops one more thing. Sal provided factual info. Which was lacking in your poats. You provided opinions. Not facts. Even your misguided and erroneousus attempt to characterize my interaction with Sal is just more of your disembling and attempting to make ypurslef sound cool.

[Tucson Tom]

"Overcharging" is in the wallet of the purchaser.

If you are willing to pay for it, then by definition it's not overcharging. If you aren't, then by definition (for you) it is.

In this case, Kenbo has decided that the P4 is currently priced above what he is willing to pay for it.

It's pretty simple market economics. Kenbo doesn't buy he P4, Vivi does, Spyderco sells one to Vivi but not Kenbo, the Seki maker makes that one for Spyderco--we all go home happy. Works for me. I'm not sure why people are getting worked up about it.

Yeah! That makes perfectly good sense to me. I'll be able to sleep good tonight.