The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
BigKenbo
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby BigKenbo » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:56 pm

I genuinely appreciate the post. It would appear i will not be adding a drunken to my spydercollection. Best wishes.
Oh so it's THAT kind of party. Endura 4 ZPD-189, HAP40/410. Native 5 G-10 S110V. Native 5 LW MAXAMET, S30V, S110V. Rest are safe queens. These are loved and CARRIED.

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JacksonKnives
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby JacksonKnives » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:56 pm

Zatx wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:34 pm
A couple of other findings:

The stop pin is corroded and looks old or used. Also, as I was holding the knife I heard something rattling; it turns out all of the scale screws were loose with one nearly falling out.

I've never seen such low quality coming out of the Taichung factory. Not to add insult to injury, but I've seen better examples of the Temperance than this.
This and the substandard grind are pretty surprising. Sounds like a knife that missed some standard checks.
Everything I've heard about finishing work (rounded corners and so forth) indicates that Taichung is putting extra work into these knives compared to the $150-class models, but obviously yours slipped through the cracks. :/

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Tims
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby Tims » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:59 pm

Evil D wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:22 pm
I'm sorta turned off by "designer" clips anyway. Call me crazy but part of the attraction of a Spyderized version of someone else's design is getting a Spyderco clip with it. It's also beneficial for those who like to swap on their custom clips from clip makers, so having a standard hole pattern helps too. The flashy clip may make it more special for the next guy but I tend to avoid flashy, that's kinda why I'm a Spyderco fan in the first place.
I feel the same way

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Zatx
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby Zatx » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:00 pm

Ruudr wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:55 pm
When I handled the prototype at the Spyderco Meet in 2018 and the production sample last month I have written down just this issue with the pocket clip on the feedback cards they had. I really hoped they had looked at it and make the changes that where necessary. CQI it and you will have a awesome knife

Now see, that is just disappointing right there. I had hoped the clip changed from prototype to production and this was just a simple mistake. It’s saddening that they received feedback about this clip and left it the way it is.

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby Spook410 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:07 pm

Wright.88 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:00 pm
Dutchman wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:50 pm
If you cannot figure a way to maneuver that clip away from that scale, perhaps you shouldn't own such a complex knife as this?
You could really hurt yourself . . .
Of course we can try bending the clip. I tried that after posting and thankfully the clip is thin so I was able to bend it with just my hands and it is much better now. I was just coming to post that. Though it is pretty sad that a $400 knife comes with a pocket clip that has a contact point halfway up with <1mm of clearance...
Thanks for the excellent photographs and thoughtful review.

And thanks for showing us how to behave on a forum.. even in the face of provocation.

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby Woodpuppy » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:20 pm

There’s a reason why I stick to the Japanese and Golden made knives.
:spyder: Current favs: M4 & CRUWEAR :spyder:

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby Wright.88 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:31 pm

JacksonKnives wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:56 pm
Zatx wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:34 pm
A couple of other findings:

The stop pin is corroded and looks old or used. Also, as I was holding the knife I heard something rattling; it turns out all of the scale screws were loose with one nearly falling out.

I've never seen such low quality coming out of the Taichung factory. Not to add insult to injury, but I've seen better examples of the Temperance than this.
This and the substandard grind are pretty surprising. Sounds like a knife that missed some standard checks.
Everything I've heard about finishing work (rounded corners and so forth) indicates that Taichung is putting extra work into these knives compared to the $150-class models, but obviously yours slipped through the cracks. :/
The grind on mine is fantastic. One of the sharpest Spydie I've ever seen. There is a small nick on the carbon fiber handle toward the bottom of the handle. Other than that the overall fit and finish on mine is excellent.

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby Capt'n Boatsalot » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:31 pm

abbazaba wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:58 pm
If the cutout was against the blade (ala Sage2), it would "solve" this issue, as well as the Slysz Bowie issue.
I would still like to know the answer to this question too. Seems like a straightforward solution to a common frame lock problem, but nonetheless, it is rare to see the cutout on the inside. Curious if anyone has insights into this?

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Tims
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby Tims » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:42 pm

Capt'n Boatsalot wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:31 pm
abbazaba wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:58 pm
If the cutout was against the blade (ala Sage2), it would "solve" this issue, as well as the Slysz Bowie issue.
I would still like to know the answer to this question too. Seems like a straightforward solution to a common frame lock problem, but nonetheless, it is rare to see the cutout on the inside. Curious if anyone has insights into this?
Speculation and I’m no engineer but it might be that on a knife with washers there isnt much machining needed on the inside of the scale. All the machining is on the outside so it’s all done at once.
Also with a contoured scale, if the cutout was machined on the inside, the material left behind wouldn’t be of a uniform thickness. The flat/even nature of the inside of the scale provides the lockbar with uniform strength and tension.

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RobDigi
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby RobDigi » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:53 pm

Spyderco needs a clip specialist to come in and take over the clip duty...like a closer pitcher!!
:D :D :D

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby FullCircleHook » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:57 pm

Woodpuppy wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:20 pm
There’s a reason why I stick to the Japanese and Golden made knives.
Come on man, Taichung knives are debatably their best! Let’s stop that criticism right now....

I don’t think you could blame the factory for the design of the clip. I just wish I could afford one right now. If you guys love the knife, give it time and there will be custom clips.

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby Marko » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:31 pm

This is a really interesting thread. One of the major things that turns me off is “designer” clips on any knife. I do like custom machined clips when they are well executed. My favorite clips are standard Spyderco clips and the wire clips.

The Drunken was on my short list for a number of reasons; Sinkevich design, Spyderco, S90V, Ti/CF, lightweight, etc.
However, An unattractive or difficult clip is the one area that really keeps me from buying a new knife. I might just hold out for the Paysan until the clip issues are resolved. Also, in the past many complained about the standard clip being used on the Nirvana, but looking at how this designer clip turned out I’m thinking don’t fix it if it aint broke...

Kinda bummed right now since I was hoping to buy one of these in April.

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby NickShabazz » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:48 pm

Tims wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:42 pm
Speculation and I’m no engineer but it might be that on a knife with washers there isnt much machining needed on the inside of the scale. All the machining is on the outside so it’s all done at once.
This knife has extensive internal milling. I have trouble believing that could be the issue here.
Mourning the Slysz Bowie and loving the rest of Spyderco's gems. Check out my reviews at https://www.youtube.com/c/nickshabazz!

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby ferider » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:07 pm

Deleted original post. Stunned by the clip position putting pressure on the lock. But factory pictures confirm your knife looks as it should.

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby ABX2011 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:19 pm

I'm perplexed when Spyderco releases a knife with an issue that so many people immediately raise. I think of Spyderco as being more deliberate and exacting in their designs than other companies. Years of development. Multiple prototypes. And yet...D'Allara lock, Tropen edge, Nilakka zero grind, bearings issues. I don't get it.
Yes, Spyderco does an incredible job most of the time. Everyone is fallible. But still. I don't get it.

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:36 pm

Lots of great points here.

Like Abbazaba, I have long wondered why the lock cutouts do not always go on the inside. Seems to solve the clip issue and it is more ergonomic.

Like EvilD, I wish collaborations just came with Spyderco clips. I have been underwhelmed with multiple clips on collaborations. I disliked the one on the Southard and the one on my Lionspy is terrible.

I have long wondered why a manufacturing facility that can produce knives with as tight of tolerances as Taichung seems to lack the ability to put a decent bevel on a knife. Even when they are even they are usually really obtuse. That is the one thing Taichung needs to get better at.
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby tvenuto » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:10 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:36 pm
Lots of great points here.

Like Abbazaba, I have long wondered why the lock cutouts do not always go on the inside. Seems to solve the clip issue and it is more ergonomic.

Like EvilD, I wish collaborations just came with Spyderco clips. I have been underwhelmed with multiple clips on collaborations. I disliked the one on the Southard and the one on my Lionspy is terrible.

I have long wondered why a manufacturing facility that can produce knives with as tight of tolerances as Taichung seems to lack the ability to put a decent bevel on a knife. Even when they are even they are usually really obtuse. That is the one thing Taichung needs to get better at.
Just another data point, the PPT clip was also awkward in a few ways. First, since it was attached to the back of the knife, you were forced to grab it by the clip thus pinching whatever it was clipped to and making it harder to remove. Thus the included lanyard. Also, it appears to have the same ski ramp termination that this one does, which can easily snag things and pull the knife out of your pocket (quite ironically, since it's difficult to remove on command). Also, you can easily scratch the paint on a car while walking by.

Seems like spyderco has the clip thing licked and collabs should go with whichever design makes the most sense. Even those can go wrong though...

The Slysz Bowie clip actually made me angry. It hit exactly over the lockbar, snagging every time I pulled it out of my pocket. THEY EVEN ALREADY HAD A PERFECT WIRE CLIP TO USE: THE ONE FROM THE FOUNDRY.

I don't think lockbar cutouts must be on the inside, but you absolutely have to consider them when you think about clip placement/style. But then I'm already someone who prioritizes carry/draw. If I don't enjoy carrying it, then I'm not going to ever know how good it is to use because I won't have it on me when I need it.

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JacksonKnives
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby JacksonKnives » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:54 pm

To be fair, things like cutout placement and the custom clip are a big part of the look of this knife. It's a design that deserves a clip that matches the handle.

I wonder if the thickness of the clip or the depth of the recess have changed since the design was first prototyped. Seems like if the clip were on the surface the same overall clip geometry would be much better.

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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby JacksonKnives » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:09 pm

I've always wondered if the lockbar cutout contact on the Bowie's clip was a deliberate "feature" to get better retention. I wonder the same about this clip now.

I'm not saying I think it's the best clip ever, but I'd be surprised if any of the chosen features were accidental. Something like bend depth or clip stock thickness would be pretty easy changes to slip through a design review, but the cutout and clip location are there from the original.

[Edit: looking at the Instagram video again, the Pelican had a pretty extreme arch-shaped clearance area between the mounting post and the "nose." So the problem here is nearly all in the way the new clip was sized and bent.]
Last edited by JacksonKnives on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bwunger
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Re: The Drunken: Amazing Knife, Ruined by its Pocket Clip.

Postby bwunger » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:12 pm

I was coming on here to make the exact same post as the OP. It's such a great knife that I really want to like but I'm really close to returning it because the clip is so bad. I'll try it on a few more pants tomorrow. Maybe this pair is especially bad and maybe I can resend the clip but if it doesn't get better this one may be going back.

It doesn't seem to cause any issues being on the lock bar otherwise. It's just that darn cutout and the really low clearance under the clip. They need more clearance and should have put the cutout on the inside.

I may give Spyderco a call on Monday to see what my options are. I'm seriously contemplating whether I could live with this knife sans clip. And just let it ride in the bottom of my pocket. Maybe I could commission a custom clip?
Current collection: ZDP-189 Delica 4, S110V PM2, St. Nick's 4v Para 3, H1 sheepsfoot Manbug, Kapara, VG-10 Dragonfly, ATS-55 Serrated Delica, ZDP-189 MT04 (not broken yet) + Other non spydercos.


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