Thank you for this post. I saw one of the Camillus knives listed as having VG10 and I wondered if it is good as the Spyderco VG10 as used on say the Endura. You answered the question for me.The Mastiff wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:33 amI completely agree with you Joe. The only PRC made knives I'd buy are Byrd knives because and only because I trust Spyderco to actually check things are what they are supposed to be. A few years ago I bought a "Camillus" knife made in PRC that is supposed to be VG 10. I can't say for sure what steel it is but it definitely is not performing like Spyderco Japan made VG 10 in cutting or sharpening. That is why I stated it is advertised as VG 10. Whatever it is I don't think I will be buying more no matter how good the price seems.would be truly super cautious of anything that comes from there. I might cave in on the Spyderco Byrd stuff under the right situation because in that case I know the materials would not be counterfeit or fraudulent >> and Sal would make sure they played by the rules. However the CROSSBILL is about the only model I've ever had any interest in concerning the Byrd line. And truly Mastiff I have my sincere doubts if they were to use real McCoy, VG-10 blade steel.
Joe
This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
Spyderco uses H1 in Golden.
Not too worried about VG-10 coming out of anywhere but Japan. It's a good steel and all but I don't go out seeking it. I've got enough for a lifetime. I think spyderco is doing alright with how they use their steels.
Not too worried about VG-10 coming out of anywhere but Japan. It's a good steel and all but I don't go out seeking it. I've got enough for a lifetime. I think spyderco is doing alright with how they use their steels.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
It would be better in LC200N!steelcity16 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:27 amHow was Spyderco able to do the Autonomy in H1 in the USA?
I REALLY want a G10 Military Salt in SE H1, so I would love to see this happen.
40 Spyderco knives in 11 different steels,
1 Byrd and 30 “others”
1 Byrd and 30 “others”
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
Are you suggesting that Spyderco set up their own steel mill?....... C'mon dude. Really?SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:25 am
How this relates to Spyderco: I believe that Spyderco and other knife makers need to be able to produce H1 and VG10 steel or some rendition of it locally and domestically so as to make these wonderful blade materials more widely available to the global cutlery market.
How can this travesty be changed and fixed?
Warhammer 40000 is- basically- Lord Of The Rings on a cocktail of every drug known to man and genuine lunar dust, stuck in a blender with Alien, Mechwarrior, Dune, Starship Troopers, Fahrenheit 451 and Star Wars, bathed in blood, turned up to eleventy billion, set on fire, and catapulted off into space screaming "WAAAGH!" and waving a chainsaw sword- without the happy ending.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
It's not a travesty. If a steel company has particular policies, that's that. It's not a crime against humanity.SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:25 amAs some on here have said, and please confirm for me if this is true or not: VG10 and H1 Stainless Steel cannot be used outside of Japan? This is a travesty, this is not right. It is one thing for people to invent something and then license it to others, it is a whole other thing to monopolize it and say others cannot make that steel outside a particular nation. If they can make it they should be allowed to make it. What if a nation said "Noone outside of our nation can make steel." That would be nonsense. Steel is a basic metal and mineral and part of the Earth. One may as well say "We cannot allow sapphire or emeralds to be made outside of so and so country".
How this relates to Spyderco: I believe that Spyderco and other knife makers need to be able to produce H1 and VG10 steel or some rendition of it locally and domestically so as to make these wonderful blade materials more widely available to the global cutlery market.
How can this travesty be changed and fixed?
Jim
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
Well, I think you're right. But I want to see these great steel alloys be used more widely and see more knife designs made of them. How can this happen?James Y wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:26 pmIt's not a travesty. If a steel company has particular policies, that's that. It's not a crime against humanity.SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:25 amAs some on here have said, and please confirm for me if this is true or not: VG10 and H1 Stainless Steel cannot be used outside of Japan? This is a travesty, this is not right. It is one thing for people to invent something and then license it to others, it is a whole other thing to monopolize it and say others cannot make that steel outside a particular nation. If they can make it they should be allowed to make it. What if a nation said "Noone outside of our nation can make steel." That would be nonsense. Steel is a basic metal and mineral and part of the Earth. One may as well say "We cannot allow sapphire or emeralds to be made outside of so and so country".
How this relates to Spyderco: I believe that Spyderco and other knife makers need to be able to produce H1 and VG10 steel or some rendition of it locally and domestically so as to make these wonderful blade materials more widely available to the global cutlery market.
How can this travesty be changed and fixed?
Jim
Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
CPM S30V replaced VG10 and LC200N replaced H1. It's time to move on and not wish for irrelevant steels.
Can you find it and can it cut? :eek:
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
I used to carry a serrated knife mandatory for work on my PFD for 4 years. It was the NRS co-pilot, it was made out of 420j2, it never needed to be sharpened for what it was intended for. I've always felt it was moot to pick apart steels for serrations. The serrations will work off of being serrated more then being out of a special steel in my experience, hence why I personally don't care about serrations.
My only relation and concern with knives and steels is with plain edge.
While it is facinating that the H1 is supposed to have some super hard work hardning response with the serrations I don't understand how it can be hardness tested at the serrations. The Rockwell C test diamond penetrator needs a flat surface with no taper to test so I don't understand how the numbers were generated.
Either way, my point is that LC200N is a better steel for people that like edge performance on plain edge over both H1 and Vg10.
My only relation and concern with knives and steels is with plain edge.
While it is facinating that the H1 is supposed to have some super hard work hardning response with the serrations I don't understand how it can be hardness tested at the serrations. The Rockwell C test diamond penetrator needs a flat surface with no taper to test so I don't understand how the numbers were generated.
Either way, my point is that LC200N is a better steel for people that like edge performance on plain edge over both H1 and Vg10.
Vivi wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:52 pmNot sure I'm getting your point? H1 is tougher than 420j2....and more corrosion resistant....and holds an edge longer.....Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:03 pm420j2 is pretty tough too.
Vivi wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:55 amI was under the impression H1 is tougher, and may show greater edge retention on serrated blades.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:30 amNah, plenty of great US steels to use. Let the Japanese keep their steel. It's their tradition and culture. They don't want to sell off there heritage and have everyone run away with the steel and stave off their knife making culture.
Besides why do we want H1 and Vg10?
LC200N does both things better.
The really interesting japanese steels are Aogami Super, Shirogami 1a, HAP40, and ZDP189
So buy "Made in Japan"
Support the culture and tradition.
I'm just pointing out that LC200N, while it improves on H1 in many ways based on everything I've read / watched, if someone values toughness and serrated edge retention more than the ability to be full flat ground and hold an edge well in PE, H1 could be the better choice.
Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
What are you expecting? Common sense? Grounding in reality? One time he wanted Spyderco to start a material science research arm to find all the crazy materials nobody has discovered yet.
SEF, if you’re just dying to make some contribution to Spyderco knives you’re much better off focusing on knife design than materials. It’s much easier for amateurs to come up with something useful in design. Materials require a bit of scientific background that most of us (including most knife makers) simply don’t have. That’s ok because knife makers just have to use materials, not know everything about them.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
You monster! VG10- irrelevant!?- How dare you!.....The vilest heresy I've heard in a month!
Such utterances will result in a visit from your local Commissar for 're-education' by being sent to clear that minefield in snowshoes!
:D
(That's all tongue-in-cheek in case anyone can't work it out)
Warhammer 40000 is- basically- Lord Of The Rings on a cocktail of every drug known to man and genuine lunar dust, stuck in a blender with Alien, Mechwarrior, Dune, Starship Troopers, Fahrenheit 451 and Star Wars, bathed in blood, turned up to eleventy billion, set on fire, and catapulted off into space screaming "WAAAGH!" and waving a chainsaw sword- without the happy ending.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
And here I was readying the snowshoes. I've even got the proper pamphlets for re-education.demoncase wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:12 pmYou monster! VG10- irrelevant!?- How dare you!.....The vilest heresy I've heard in a month!
Such utterances will result in a visit from your local Commissar for 're-education' by being sent to clear that minefield in snowshoes!
:D
(That's all tongue-in-cheek in case anyone can't work it out)
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
How is this possible for Spyderco to use H1 in Golden if the Japanese demand that all finished parts and blades be made in Japan?
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:00 pmHow is this possible for Spyderco to use H1 in Golden if the Japanese demand that all finished parts and blades be made in Japan?
They must have some agreement with the Japanese supplier of H-1. The knife would be the Autonomy 1.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
Autos have to be made in America. Spyderco got in hot water with the spyderfly and szabofly. So they had to make the autonomy in the US. Maybe Sal can chime in the with how they actually do it.
I know William Henry knives uses ZDP-189 so they must have some kind of agreement with the mill. So some of the Japanese steel mills are working with American companies.
I know William Henry knives uses ZDP-189 so they must have some kind of agreement with the mill. So some of the Japanese steel mills are working with American companies.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
Boker's Kwaiken model is made in Germany and has a VG10 blade-As are a number of their other folders.VashHash wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:52 pmAutos have to be made in America. Spyderco got in hot water with the spyderfly and szabofly. So they had to make the autonomy in the US. Maybe Sal can chime in the with how they actually do it.
I know William Henry knives uses ZDP-189 so they must have some kind of agreement with the mill. So some of the Japanese steel mills are working with American companies.
So yes, I don't think it's as cut-n-dried as we might imagine- but is any company (even one as open as Spyderco) going to tell us every tiny nuance of their supply chain agreements?- If I was the CEO then the answer would be no :)
Warhammer 40000 is- basically- Lord Of The Rings on a cocktail of every drug known to man and genuine lunar dust, stuck in a blender with Alien, Mechwarrior, Dune, Starship Troopers, Fahrenheit 451 and Star Wars, bathed in blood, turned up to eleventy billion, set on fire, and catapulted off into space screaming "WAAAGH!" and waving a chainsaw sword- without the happy ending.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
Could be- but that's still not Japan either, so it's the same point....sort of....I think....
Warhammer 40000 is- basically- Lord Of The Rings on a cocktail of every drug known to man and genuine lunar dust, stuck in a blender with Alien, Mechwarrior, Dune, Starship Troopers, Fahrenheit 451 and Star Wars, bathed in blood, turned up to eleventy billion, set on fire, and catapulted off into space screaming "WAAAGH!" and waving a chainsaw sword- without the happy ending.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
I guess... though none of us know how Boker gets VG-10 to Taiwan. It’s possible they’re using a similar composition steel and calling it VG-10. In any case, it does the job.
People worry about steel way too much. I’ve seen people fretting that Chinese D2 isn’t really D2, even though D2 is a commodity tool steel with fairly wide specs. Kind of silly.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
zhyla wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:24 pm
I guess... though none of us know how Boker gets VG-10 to Taiwan. It’s possible they’re using a similar composition steel and calling it VG-10. In any case, it does the job.
People worry about steel way too much. I’ve seen people fretting that Chinese D2 isn’t really D2, even though D2 is a commodity tool steel with fairly wide specs. Kind of silly.
I don't think this is a silly concern. Especially with the reputation Chinese manufacturers have of counterfeiting products and stealing proprietary information. If I fork over a lot of money for a knife I absolutely want to be sure I'm getting what I'm paying for.
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Re: This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?
Waxing poetically for a bygone era.
Can you find it and can it cut? :eek: