This must change: VG10 and H1 to be used outside of Japan. What can Spyderco do?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

would be truly super cautious of anything that comes from there. I might cave in on the Spyderco Byrd stuff under the right situation because in that case I know the materials would not be counterfeit or fraudulent >> and Sal would make sure they played by the rules. However the CROSSBILL is about the only model I've ever had any interest in concerning the Byrd line. And truly Mastiff I have my sincere doubts if they were to use real McCoy, VG-10 blade steel.

I completely agree with you Joe. The only PRC made knives I'd buy are Byrd knives because and only because I trust Spyderco to actually check things are what they are supposed to be. A few years ago I bought a "Camillus" knife made in PRC that is supposed to be VG 10. I can't say for sure what steel it is but it definitely is not performing like Spyderco Japan made VG 10 in cutting or sharpening. That is why I stated it is advertised as VG 10. Whatever it is I don't think I will be buying more no matter how good the price seems.

Joe

Thank you for this post. I saw one of the Camillus knives listed as having VG10 and I wondered if it is good as the Spyderco VG10 as used on say the Endura. You answered the question for me.

[VashHash]

Spyderco uses H1 in Golden.

Not too worried about VG-10 coming out of anywhere but Japan. It's a good steel and all but I don't go out seeking it. I've got enough for a lifetime. I think spyderco is doing alright with how they use their steels.

[BLUETYPEII]

How was Spyderco able to do the Autonomy in H1 in the USA?

I REALLY want a G10 Military Salt in SE H1, so I would love to see this happen.

It would be better in LC200N!

[demoncase]

How this relates to Spyderco: I believe that Spyderco and other knife makers need to be able to produce H1 and VG10 steel or some rendition of it locally and domestically so as to make these wonderful blade materials more widely available to the global cutlery market.

How can this travesty be changed and fixed?

Are you suggesting that Spyderco set up their own steel mill?....... C'mon dude. Really?

[James Y]

As some on here have said, and please confirm for me if this is true or not: VG10 and H1 Stainless Steel cannot be used outside of Japan? This is a travesty, this is not right. It is one thing for people to invent something and then license it to others, it is a whole other thing to monopolize it and say others cannot make that steel outside a particular nation. If they can make it they should be allowed to make it. What if a nation said "Noone outside of our nation can make steel." That would be nonsense. Steel is a basic metal and mineral and part of the Earth. One may as well say "We cannot allow sapphire or emeralds to be made outside of so and so country".

How this relates to Spyderco: I believe that Spyderco and other knife makers need to be able to produce H1 and VG10 steel or some rendition of it locally and domestically so as to make these wonderful blade materials more widely available to the global cutlery market.

How can this travesty be changed and fixed?

It's not a travesty. If a steel company has particular policies, that's that. It's not a crime against humanity.

Jim

[SpyderEdgeForever]

As some on here have said, and please confirm for me if this is true or not: VG10 and H1 Stainless Steel cannot be used outside of Japan? This is a travesty, this is not right. It is one thing for people to invent something and then license it to others, it is a whole other thing to monopolize it and say others cannot make that steel outside a particular nation. If they can make it they should be allowed to make it. What if a nation said "Noone outside of our nation can make steel." That would be nonsense. Steel is a basic metal and mineral and part of the Earth. One may as well say "We cannot allow sapphire or emeralds to be made outside of so and so country".

How this relates to Spyderco: I believe that Spyderco and other knife makers need to be able to produce H1 and VG10 steel or some rendition of it locally and domestically so as to make these wonderful blade materials more widely available to the global cutlery market.

How can this travesty be changed and fixed?

It's not a travesty. If a steel company has particular policies, that's that. It's not a crime against humanity.

Jim

Well, I think you're right. But I want to see these great steel alloys be used more widely and see more knife designs made of them. How can this happen?

[Crux]

CPM S30V replaced VG10 and LC200N replaced H1. It's time to move on and not wish for irrelevant steels.

[Deadboxhero]

I used to carry a serrated knife mandatory for work on my PFD for 4 years. It was the NRS co-pilot, it was made out of 420j2, it never needed to be sharpened for what it was intended for. I've always felt it was moot to pick apart steels for serrations. The serrations will work off of being serrated more then being out of a special steel in my experience, hence why I personally don't care about serrations.

My only relation and concern with knives and steels is with plain edge.

While it is facinating that the H1 is supposed to have some super hard work hardning response with the serrations I don't understand how it can be hardness tested at the serrations. The Rockwell C test diamond penetrator needs a flat surface with no taper to test so I don't understand how the numbers were generated.

Either way, my point is that LC200N is a better steel for people that like edge performance on plain edge over both H1 and Vg10.

420j2 is pretty tough too.

Nah, plenty of great US steels to use. Let the Japanese keep their steel. It's their tradition and culture. They don't want to sell off there heritage and have everyone run away with the steel and stave off their knife making culture.

Besides why do we want H1 and Vg10?


LC200N does both things better.


The really interesting japanese steels are Aogami Super, Shirogami 1a, HAP40, and ZDP189



So buy "Made in Japan"

Support the culture and tradition.

I was under the impression H1 is tougher, and may show greater edge retention on serrated blades.

Not sure I'm getting your point? H1 is tougher than 420j2....and more corrosion resistant....and holds an edge longer.....

I'm just pointing out that LC200N, while it improves on H1 in many ways based on everything I've read / watched, if someone values toughness and serrated edge retention more than the ability to be full flat ground and hold an edge well in PE, H1 could be the better choice.

[zhyla]

Are you suggesting that Spyderco set up their own steel mill?....... C'mon dude. Really?

What are you expecting? Common sense? Grounding in reality? One time he wanted Spyderco to start a material science research arm to find all the crazy materials nobody has discovered yet.

SEF, if you’re just dying to make some contribution to Spyderco knives you’re much better off focusing on knife design than materials. It’s much easier for amateurs to come up with something useful in design. Materials require a bit of scientific background that most of us (including most knife makers) simply don’t have. That’s ok because knife makers just have to use materials, not know everything about them.

[demoncase]

CPM S30V replaced VG10 and LC200N replaced H1. It's time to move on and not wish for irrelevant steels.

You monster! VG10- irrelevant!?- How dare you!.....The vilest heresy I've heard in a month!
Such utterances will result in a visit from your local Commissar for 're-education' by being sent to clear that minefield in snowshoes!

:D

(That's all tongue-in-cheek in case anyone can't work it out)

[VashHash]

CPM S30V replaced VG10 and LC200N replaced H1. It's time to move on and not wish for irrelevant steels.

You monster! VG10- irrelevant!?- How dare you!.....The vilest heresy I've heard in a month!
Such utterances will result in a visit from your local Commissar for 're-education' by being sent to clear that minefield in snowshoes!

:D

(That's all tongue-in-cheek in case anyone can't work it out)

And here I was readying the snowshoes. I've even got the proper pamphlets for re-education.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Spyderco uses H1 in Golden.

Not too worried about VG-10 coming out of anywhere but Japan. It's a good steel and all but I don't go out seeking it. I've got enough for a lifetime. I think spyderco is doing alright with how they use their steels.

How is this possible for Spyderco to use H1 in Golden if the Japanese demand that all finished parts and blades be made in Japan?

[The Meat man]

Spyderco uses H1 in Golden.

Not too worried about VG-10 coming out of anywhere but Japan. It's a good steel and all but I don't go out seeking it. I've got enough for a lifetime. I think spyderco is doing alright with how they use their steels.

How is this possible for Spyderco to use H1 in Golden if the Japanese demand that all finished parts and blades be made in Japan?

They must have some agreement with the Japanese supplier of H-1. The knife would be the Autonomy 1.

[VashHash]

Autos have to be made in America. Spyderco got in hot water with the spyderfly and szabofly. So they had to make the autonomy in the US. Maybe Sal can chime in the with how they actually do it.

I know William Henry knives uses ZDP-189 so they must have some kind of agreement with the mill. So some of the Japanese steel mills are working with American companies.

[demoncase]

Autos have to be made in America. Spyderco got in hot water with the spyderfly and szabofly. So they had to make the autonomy in the US. Maybe Sal can chime in the with how they actually do it.

I know William Henry knives uses ZDP-189 so they must have some kind of agreement with the mill. So some of the Japanese steel mills are working with American companies.

Boker's Kwaiken model is made in Germany and has a VG10 blade-As are a number of their other folders.

So yes, I don't think it's as cut-n-dried as we might imagine- but is any company (even one as open as Spyderco) going to tell us every tiny nuance of their supply chain agreements?- If I was the CEO then the answer would be no :)

[zhyla]

Boker's Kwaiken model is made in Germany and has a VG10 blade-As are a number of their other folders.

I believe all the Kwaiken models are made in Taiwan.

[demoncase]

Boker's Kwaiken model is made in Germany and has a VG10 blade-As are a number of their other folders.

I believe all the Kwaiken models are made in Taiwan.

Could be- but that's still not Japan either, so it's the same point....sort of....I think....

[zhyla]

Boker's Kwaiken model is made in Germany and has a VG10 blade-As are a number of their other folders.

I believe all the Kwaiken models are made in Taiwan.

Could be- but that's still not Japan either, so it's the same point....sort of....I think....

I guess... though none of us know how Boker gets VG-10 to Taiwan. It’s possible they’re using a similar composition steel and calling it VG-10. In any case, it does the job.

People worry about steel way too much. I’ve seen people fretting that Chinese D2 isn’t really D2, even though D2 is a commodity tool steel with fairly wide specs. Kind of silly.

[The Meat man]

I guess... though none of us know how Boker gets VG-10 to Taiwan. It’s possible they’re using a similar composition steel and calling it VG-10. In any case, it does the job.

People worry about steel way too much. I’ve seen people fretting that Chinese D2 isn’t really D2, even though D2 is a commodity tool steel with fairly wide specs. Kind of silly.

I don't think this is a silly concern. Especially with the reputation Chinese manufacturers have of counterfeiting products and stealing proprietary information. If I fork over a lot of money for a knife I absolutely want to be sure I'm getting what I'm paying for.

[Crux]

Waxing poetically for a bygone era.