How tough is Cruwear?

[Catamount123]

Fans of Cruwear have posted that it is very tough. I'm wondering how it compares to 3V (which seems to be THE standard for toughness) or 4V?

I've found the BladeHQ Best Knife Steel Guide to be a valuable resource:

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Best-Knife ... uide--3368

Cruwear is mentioned, but not yet rated, so I'm asking those of you who have experience with it to give your input.

[TomAiello]

I'd put it between them. Not as tough as 3v (but better edge holding). Tougher than v4e (but not as good for edge holding).

I think it hits the sweet spot on toughness for edge retention for a lot of people, but there's nothing that's best at everything.

[abbazaba]

Cruwear is so tough if you cut coal with it you make diamonds.

Cruewear is so tough it stares down cardboard until it breaks itself down.

Cruwear is so tough it makes onions cry.

... I'll show myself out :D

[Pelagic]

Tougher than a 2 dollar steak!

[JacksonKnives]

Fans of Cruwear have posted that it is very tough. I'm wondering how it compares to 3V (which seems to be THE standard for toughness) or 4V?

I've found the BladeHQ Best Knife Steel Guide to be a valuable resource:

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Best-Knife ... uide--3368

Cruwear is mentioned, but not yet rated, so I'm asking those of you who have experience with it to give your input.

Sadly, the number of those knife steel charts with misleading data is pretty high. Larrin did a great job picking apart the flaws and pointing out the liberal repitionion of bad guesses here:
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/03/ ... -articles/

For the most part they're an interesting primer on the categories that matter to collectors, but you should think twice before using a sales infographic as a reference. For example, BladeHQ has S110V listed at 6/10 corrosion resistance, when it should be as high as 10. It's a real disservice to their customers, I work with marketing people so I understand how and why material like this gets made, but buyer beware.

The big problem with a comparison chart ranking toughness is that few of them will show hardness and other important variables. Toughness is a secondary characteristic controlled by composition, but also controlled by many heat treatment processes that can control grain growth and convert retained austenite.
You could break two Spyderco PM2s in different steels and the difference might be repeatable across new samples, but the same steel treated by the Taichung plant for a different knife might show a different result. Comparing to a different knife company is another dimension of uncertainty.

[JacksonKnives]

Larrin has a good chart here with 4V and Cruwear, but only one tested hardness for each.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/03/04/all-about-aeb-l/
(Probably the samples were done to peak hardness:toughness per Crucible data sheets.)

[Tucson Tom]

Sadly, the number of those knife steel charts with misleading data is pretty high.

That is certainly my view. I just pretty much roll my eyes when I see one of these show up.

I am right away asking myself, "where did this come from? Who says? Where is the data to back this up?"

And where does a 2 dollar steak fit in this chart? -- that is what I want to know.

[The Meat man]

Cruwear is so tough if you cut coal with it you make diamonds.

Cruewear is so tough it stares down cardboard until it breaks itself down.

Cruwear is so tough it makes onions cry.

... I'll show myself out :D

Are you talking about Cruwear or Chuck Norris? :D

[ferider]

Cruwear is so tough, it's #45's favorite.

[ferider]

Jokes aside wear resistance and toughness below are from manufacturer data, typical HRC is from me, compiling Ankerson Spyderco data or similar.

[Sharp Guy]

Cruwear is so tough if you cut coal with it you make diamonds.

Cruewear is so tough it stares down cardboard until it breaks itself down.

Cruwear is so tough it makes onions cry.

... I'll show myself out :D

Are you talking about Cruwear or Chuck Norris? :D

Haha! Last weekend I was in a burger place by us that had Chuck Norris sayings printed all over the walls in the men's room.

Chuck Norris counted to infinity...twice.
Chuck Norris beat the Sun in a staring contest.
When Chuck Norris was born he drove his mom home from the hospital.

:D

[Larrin]

Don't forget that there is both a conventional version of CruWear and also a CPM version. And there are PM versions made by other companies including Z-Wear and PD1. The PM version is at least twice as tough. And don't pay attention to the BladeHQ ratings.

[JacksonKnives]

Jokes aside wear resistance and toughness below are from manufacturer data, typical HRC is from me, compiling Ankerson Spyderco data or similar.

I salute your efforts, but how does this chart show correlation? Are they only Spyderco's heat-treat?
Unless you can show all three measurements for all the variables (or at least average the measurements across the same samples) this chart doesn't really tell us what any one knife will be like.

It's great for a knife afi to be able to look at a picture of average HRC, and it's cool to see cutting tests on different steels, but that doesn't tell us what a new knife will be like in that steel, just a trend. To a certain extent averages are fine for giving an impression of performance, but a change in hardness can have a big impact. (Even within the same manufacturer's protocols; anyone remember the ZDP mule recall?)

[ferider]

Jokes aside wear resistance and toughness below are from manufacturer data, typical HRC is from me, compiling Ankerson Spyderco data or similar.

I salute your efforts, but how does this chart show correlation? Are they only Spyderco's heat-treat?
Unless you can show all three measurements for all the variables (or at least average the measurements across the same samples) this chart doesn't really tell us what any one knife will be like.

It's great for a knife afi to be able to look at a picture of average HRC, and it's cool to see cutting tests on different steels, but that doesn't tell us what a new knife will be like in that steel, just a trend. To a certain extent averages are fine for giving an impression of performance, but a change in hardness can have a big impact. (Even within the same manufacturer's protocols; anyone remember the ZDP mule recall?)

I don't disagree with you, and I was debating if or not to show the HRC. That's why I mentioned the sources, and let me add here that I picked HRC data specific to Spyderco if available (for example in https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/ran ... pe.793481/). Ankerson doesn't mention Spyderco CPM CW HRC, but Sal mentioned once that his CPM CW Military tested at 61.1, etc.

Also, wear resistance and toughness come from the manufacturer data-sheets (e.g., Crucible), which are of course also HRC dependent, and - since marketing material - might be optimistic.

In my opinion, the biggest weakness of the data is that they are geometry-independent. And finally, what type of toughness metric did the OP refer to ? Blade breaking, chipping vs. rolling, CATRA, .... For example, my 4V Manix 2 is in some ways "tougher" than my Cruwear one, but the data above show the opposite.

Still, as long as the sources are clear, I feel data is still better than hear-say "this guy said Cruwear in his PM3 is so much better than M4 in my Military, because M4 is so yesterday, etc.".

Cheers :)

Roland.

[steelcity16]

Cruwear is so tough if you cut coal with it you make diamonds.

Cruewear is so tough it stares down cardboard until it breaks itself down.

Cruwear is so tough it makes onions cry.

... I'll show myself out :D

Are you talking about Cruwear or Chuck Norris? :D

Haha! Last weekend I was in a burger place by us that had Chuck Norris sayings printed all over the walls in the men's room.

Chuck Norris counted to infinity...twice.
Chuck Norris beat the Sun in a staring contest.
When Chuck Norris was born he drove his mom home from the hospital.

:D

I watched Walker, Texas Ranger for the first time in probably 25 years last night coincidentally. He took down 4 guys at once and threw them in the back of his pickup!

[Pelagic]

At age 5, after Chuck Norris had finished building his house by hand and ready to move in, he looked at his father and said "you're the man of the house now".

For real though, cruwear is impressively tough, even above 60hrc. But geometry and hardness will determine toughness more so than steel.

[5-by-5]

Jokes aside wear resistance and toughness below are from manufacturer data, typical HRC is from me, compiling Ankerson Spyderco data or similar.

10V! We need more 10V!

[anycal]

My favorite - Chuck Norris doesn’t sleep; he waits.

I like cruwear. Have a couple knives in this steel. It has been good to me so I tend to like it. Simple as that.

[The Meat man]

Cruwear is so tough if you cut coal with it you make diamonds.

Cruewear is so tough it stares down cardboard until it breaks itself down.

Cruwear is so tough it makes onions cry.

... I'll show myself out :D

Are you talking about Cruwear or Chuck Norris? :D

Haha! Last weekend I was in a burger place by us that had Chuck Norris sayings printed all over the walls in the men's room.

Chuck Norris counted to infinity...twice.
Chuck Norris beat the Sun in a staring contest.
When Chuck Norris was born he drove his mom home from the hospital.

:D

Those are pretty good Pat! :D
Some of my favorites:

Chuck Norris can make a fire by rubbing ice cubes.
Bigfoot claims he saw Chuck Norris.

[TomAiello]

Don't forget that there is both a conventional version of CruWear and also a CPM version. And there are PM versions made by other companies including Z-Wear and PD1. The PM version is at least twice as tough. And don't pay attention to the BladeHQ ratings.

Are any knives currently being produced with non-PM Cruwear (by whatever name)?

I had sort of thought that all the knife manufacturers had gone over to PM Cruwear.