Am i just lucky with my super steels?

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Deadboxhero
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby Deadboxhero » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:51 pm

Yet on the flip side, if one doesn't use their knives in ways for them to chip, than they'll get a better investment out of the time spent sharpening since it will actually hold it. This is because the harder steel won't roll and blunt as readily in use for proper cutting and the carbides will provide more slicing endurance for drawing cuts

So it seems it's the user more then the steel for universal edge holding.

It's nice to sharpen when one wants rather than because they have to.

I all kinds of steel in the right context.



Vivi wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:12 pm
Most high wear resistant steels require more patience rather than more skill. Though the greater number of strokes required to touch them up does give you more chances to mess up!

I haven't found a steel that I couldn't put an edge on, but I do find certain steels quicker and easier to sharpen.

Another thing to consider is a lot of hard, high wear resistant steels are more prone to chipping. Sharpening out chips is tougher and eats up more blade steel than sharpening out a rolled edge.
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Deadboxhero
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby Deadboxhero » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:03 pm

I think when talking about sharpening difficulty it depends on the audience and context.

sounds mean but we have to remember the reality that people generally aren't very good at sharpening as a whole which is why there is a plethora of gadets and gizmozs to cash in on people or sevices to sharpen.

Which is totally understandable, we don't all have time to make knives our hobby. For mist it's a passing interest.

Now the people having problems on YouTube aren't in that category, they are great sharpeners but refuse to look at the material science of the steels.

Why?


It's because they are lumping proper abrasives into the "gadgets and gizmozs" category which is understandable given the sea of BS in the sharpening world.

At the end of the day, we have to remember it's the skill not tools, yet the material science shouldn't be overlooked and I feel Maxamet was "steel beast" that finally made people realize there is something to the science of the materials and it's not just geek stuff or an impertinent detail for nerds.

Why difficulty with Maxamet? Well it's hard AF and has very high carbide volume, it's the combination of those that makes the steel more sensitive to fatigue due to improper abrasive rubbing and causing stress and not cutting the steel. Just burnishing, that's why if you notice you'll get a very high finish on Maxamet with a coarse ceramic stone. It's not cutting it. It's rubbing.


BigKenbo wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:56 am
Hi all. I do NOT consider myself any kind of sharpening expert! Anyway, i picked up a few super steel Spydies, S110V, Maxamet, ZDP-189, even Hap40. I watched some videos from Mr Christy, Big Brown Bear (Bearfacedkiller here i think) and even some rants on how bad they are to sharpen. I made sure to pick up a sharp maker and appropriate diamond and cubic boron nitride stones, and such, but aside from time investment ( and the money for the supplies lol!) They have not given me much trouble in sharpening any of them. Have the heat treats evolved since the introduction to make these awesome steels more workable? Am i just lucky? I have not encountered any chippiness nor any issues at all really. Dumb luck or have they manufacturing processes evolved? Thanks in advance!
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby AccountDeletedUserRequest » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:23 pm

Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:51 pm
Yet on the flip side, if one doesn't use their knives in ways for them to chip, than they'll get a better investment out of the time spent sharpening since it will actually hold it. This is because the harder steel won't roll and blunt as readily in use for proper cutting and the carbides will provide more slicing endurance for drawing cuts

So it seems it's the user more then the steel for universal edge holding.

It's nice to sharpen when one wants rather than because they have to.

I all kinds of steel in the right context.



Vivi wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:12 pm
Most high wear resistant steels require more patience rather than more skill. Though the greater number of strokes required to touch them up does give you more chances to mess up!

I haven't found a steel that I couldn't put an edge on, but I do find certain steels quicker and easier to sharpen.

Another thing to consider is a lot of hard, high wear resistant steels are more prone to chipping. Sharpening out chips is tougher and eats up more blade steel than sharpening out a rolled edge.
Well said.

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Deadboxhero
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby Deadboxhero » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:38 pm

I always felt that was Sal's vision for all these steels, he loves the duality of it.

He knows that in the right context, the right users will love one over the others.

No right or wrong to it.
It's facinating that in one context BD1* will be a better choice then K390 and vice versa. On these forums we are kinda of in a bubble of very passionate folks about knives, like an echo chamber. Yet, we have to realize in some contexts, the merits of what we love are lost on those with a passing interest, and things we hold true aren't universal.

I'm sure my grandma would prefer 420HC than Maxamet. HA

Vivi wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:23 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:51 pm
Yet on the flip side, if one doesn't use their knives in ways for them to chip, than they'll get a better investment out of the time spent sharpening since it will actually hold it. This is because the harder steel won't roll and blunt as readily in use for proper cutting and the carbides will provide more slicing endurance for drawing cuts

So it seems it's the user more then the steel for universal edge holding.

It's nice to sharpen when one wants rather than because they have to.

I all kinds of steel in the right context.



Vivi wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:12 pm
Most high wear resistant steels require more patience rather than more skill. Though the greater number of strokes required to touch them up does give you more chances to mess up!

I haven't found a steel that I couldn't put an edge on, but I do find certain steels quicker and easier to sharpen.

Another thing to consider is a lot of hard, high wear resistant steels are more prone to chipping. Sharpening out chips is tougher and eats up more blade steel than sharpening out a rolled edge.
Well said.
Big Brown Bear
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby BigKenbo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:20 pm

Deadbox i apologize for mis-identifying you in my earlier post, i wanted to make sure you are aware i paid great heed to what you had to say, and do feel that your shared experience was a huge part of my being able to be successful, when making a jump from much more traditional knives to these beasts. Want to acknowledge and say thank you.
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby Deadboxhero » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:49 pm

I appreciate that, I don't mind being mistaken for Darby ( bearfacekiller) we like the same things.

I'm happy I could play a role in you getting your hands on some KILLER steels brah.

It can be kind of a bummer that people don't have all the information they need to put things into context and can be totally missing out on some high performance stuff.

Glad you took the plunge down the rabbit hole. It's more fun down here. :D

BigKenbo wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:20 pm
Deadbox i apologize for mis-identifying you in my earlier post, i wanted to make sure you are aware i paid great heed to what you had to say, and do feel that your shared experience was a huge part of my being able to be successful, when making a jump from much more traditional knives to these beasts. Want to acknowledge and say thank you.
Big Brown Bear
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby fanglekai » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:26 pm

There's a huge difference between profiling/reprofiling and sharpening. Profiling/reprofiling is the step when a bunch of metal has to be removed. Sharpening is merely refining the apex. Sharpening doesn't take long. Profiling/reprofiling can take hours depending on the alloy, equipment, and amount of material needing to be removed.

For example, if a knife is already at 20 DPS, then sharpening it on the Sharpmaker is incredibly simple. If the blade is at 25 DPS, then you're in for a much longer time to remove the metal.

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby BigKenbo » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:08 am

fanglekai wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:26 pm
There's a huge difference between profiling/reprofiling and sharpening. Profiling/reprofiling is the step when a bunch of metal has to be removed. Sharpening is merely refining the apex. Sharpening doesn't take long. Profiling/reprofiling can take hours depending on the alloy, equipment, and amount of material needing to be removed.

For example, if a knife is already at 20 DPS, then sharpening it on the Sharpmaker is incredibly simple. If the blade is at 25 DPS, then you're in for a much longer time to remove the metal.
Indeed. I am afraid the unfortunate wording i used in my initial post left the impression the SM is all i was using. The SM is for touch ups. I obtained several diamond stones and paddle strops in addition to the SM. It has been a journey! But still far easier than i was led to believe!
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.

Will Rogers
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby Will Rogers » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:17 pm

I have two versions of the Caly 3, one in zdp-189 with a carbon fiber handle, and the other the sprint in hap40 with a g10 handle. I'm probably only going to keep one, so I was thinking I should keep the hap40 because I have read it's easier to sharpen and I'm not very good at knife sharpening (I'd probably go with vg10 if that were an option). Comments?

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby Sharp Guy » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:31 pm

Will Rogers wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:17 pm
I have two versions of the Caly 3, one in zdp-189 with a carbon fiber handle, and the other the sprint in hap40 with a g10 handle. I'm probably only going to keep one, so I was thinking I should keep the hap40 because I have read it's easier to sharpen and I'm not very good at knife sharpening (I'd probably go with vg10 if that were an option). Comments?
I have both and I like both. I don't have a problem sharpening ZDP but HAP40 is easier to get wicked sharp.
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:00 am

i dont have any higher end steels but i have 2 s30v blades. i have used my sharpmaker with the included stones and reprofiled both with them. not to many issues. wish i had the diamond rods but will purchase soon.
In-Possession - Para 3 S35VN, Para 3 G10 M390 Red, Dice XHP, Lil Native S30V comp B, Manix 2 M390 BR, MKM Voxnaes Isonzo N690Co, Benchmade 555HGBlu, Ontario Rat 2 Gr G10
On-Deck - Manix 2 Cruwear, Urban AEBL, Brouwer, Cat BD1N, Lil Native compression 20CV/M390, Dragonfly 2
Loved Steels - Cruwear, M390/20CV, S35VN, BD1N, XHP, S30V, N690Co

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby Thunderpants » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:28 am

I have a fixed blade made of Niolox (not a Spyderco) - the very first time I used it I chipped the edge. Right in the main part of the belly that does the most chopping. I don't think I'll ever try to fix it, I'd spend forever on it and lose about a mm of blade.
Serves me right for trying to split bits of wood on a cast iron stove!

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby Wartstein » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:30 am

First and foremost: I have absolutely no desire to join the disput or align myself with "one side ore the other" (guys, it´s just knives - admittedly very important amongst the unimportant things ;), but, well, just knives).

So what I want is just give my personal opinion on two points (and I might well be wrong) that I find interesting:

1.) Community being an echo chamber: I personally don´t see it like this. In fact, since I joined the forum not so long ago, I have enjoyed to read about the sometimes quite variegating opinions and that most people feel free to state those. And also, when one has no opinion (yet) or no experience concerning a certain issue.

Let´s take myself as an example (just because naturally I can remember my own posts the best, not because I am somewhat good at anything, but rather specifically cause I am quite "average" or probably even below average in knowledge and on this forum):

There are things on which I have strong opinions, cause I have real experience in that speficfic areas and know what works for me and what not
There are other (and very many) things I don´t know a whole lot about. Than I admit that, or ask to gain knowledge.

Latest example: Quite recently I stated in a post, that I think a G10 knife as small as the Native 5 would not need liners imho. I did that and could do so, cause I owned and used that model (quite hard I think).
In the very same post I said, that I would not feel entitled to join the discussion about if a larger G10 folder would also work without liners, simply because I never handled one.
As far as I remember, most people on this forum do exactly like my example above.

But, again, I may be wrong, since I joined that forum like only 8 months ago. Probably what I really want to say (long story short): For me personally that forum is a good place to be, and that would not be the case if I´d experience it beeing an echo chamber. (Pelagic: That´s not meant to be against you. As said, I feel no desire to join the disput. Just my opinion).

2.) "Jogging in the woods in shorts carrying a (lightweight) knife": Admittedly, that scenario is quite a niche for most people. BUT it still is a scenario that matters to some, and I am one of those. I do a lot of trailrunning in shorts, and when doing so, I like to carry a folder that is really light.
On the other hand there very well may be scenarios, where one would want to have a really solid, heavy (and maybe linered) folder. I personally just never really was in such a situation. So I guess that is as much a niche scenario as the "jogging in shorts"-one. And both are equivalent valid or not for me, and for both there should be the perfect knives.
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby BigKenbo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:20 am

Im not sure how we wound up over in the weeds on all of this. I have recieved valuable info from everyone offering an opinion here. Including pelagic. I do NOT feel its appropriate for anyone to be attacked, as we are only talking about knives. And everyone's opinions are valid, just as everyones experiences are. Be vlessed everyone.
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby TazKristi » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:36 am

BigKenbo:
I apologize to you on behalf of some of our members who apparently have lost their manners. The posts that were way off topic (for your original post) and or offensive have been removed. This is a great discussion about sharpening and I hope it continues without any additional poor behavior.

As for you and your super steels, I believe that your experience isn't luck but rather the product of learning about steels and sharpening and practicing those skills persistently. Sharpening is kind of a lost art. It truly is a skill that requires knowledge, discipline, and practice. It's not for everyone in our fast-paced, instant gratification world. Keep going... this is one rabbit hole that is definitely worth it.

Kristi
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby James Y » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:07 am

I will admit that I haven't used my S110V Military as much as I could, due to concern I have about resharpening (as opposed to just touching it up). That's more on me than on the steel itself.

I do prefer the types of steels I know I can sharpen...LC200N, S35VN, S30V, VG-10, H1, 154CM, SAK steel, etc., etc.

I will say that, in my personal experience, the all-time hardest knife that I've tried to sharpen was a Case 2-blade jackknife, in "as ground" Tru-Sharp (420HC) stainless; hardly a super steel. I don't know why, but that one particular knife was a bear to resharpen, and I was doing it at the correct edge angles. Maybe the HT was off?? I've sharpened other Case knives without any problems. But that's starting to go OT.

I'd say, if you can handle all the super steels, enjoy the ride! My hangup with S110V is just that; my own hangup in my mind. I know it's seen as a finicky steel by many, and an easy-to-deal-with steel by others.

Jim

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby MacLaren » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:20 pm

Ya know, the only steel I've ever not been able to anything with is ZDP-189. It was an Al Mar Eagle.
Using a SharpMaker of course. Everything else has been fine.
I love 10v and K390. And especially 204p.
Actually, S110v doesn't seem to play too well with me either.
But, that's it.

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:07 pm

Evil D wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:23 am
I don't think "sharpening" is as much an issue as reprofiling. Sharpmaker can put an edge on practically anything but repairing edge damage and coming back from a very dull edge takes more time. If I can reprofile Maxamet on a Sharpmaker then anyone can.
Good point!! but it's also like I've said in the past. If you just get a couple of high end coarse and extra coarse diamond benchstones you can reprofile a really beat up blade to where you have prepared your work for doing final detail work with the 204 Sharpmaker will be much easier IMO. On a really beat up blade it's hard to be a high quality, coarse diamond benchstone to do most of the hard work with before doing the final edge on the Sharpmaker or any other high end kit type sharpening system for that matter.

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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby BigKenbo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:18 pm

TazKristi wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:36 am
BigKenbo:
I apologize to you on behalf of some of our members who apparently have lost their manners. The posts that were way off topic (for your original post) and or offensive have been removed. This is a great discussion about sharpening and I hope it continues without any additional poor behavior.

As for you and your super steels, I believe that your experience isn't luck but rather the product of learning about steels and sharpening and practicing those skills persistently. Sharpening is kind of a lost art. It truly is a skill that requires knowledge, discipline, and practice. It's not for everyone in our fast-paced, instant gratification world. Keep going... this is one rabbit hole that is definitely worth it.

Kristi
Thank you Kristi! I have been enjoying my trip down the rabbit hole.
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.

BigKenbo
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Re: Am i just lucky with my super steels?

Postby BigKenbo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:23 pm

MacLaren wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:20 pm
Ya know, the only steel I've ever not been able to anything with is ZDP-189. It was an Al Mar Eagle.
Using a SharpMaker of course. Everything else has been fine.
I love 10v and K390. And especially 204p.
Actually, S110v doesn't seem to play too well with me either.
But, that's it.
Thats a surprise to me on the ZDP-189. I have had really good luck with it. They all seem to have a personality. Its not like the old case knives at all. My best results on the ZDP have been to take it to 600 and the polish the edge with diamond impregnated strop. Best of luck!
Native 5 S110V G10 and LW. S90V LW. Salt LC200N. Maxamet. S30V G10 and LW. Endura 4 ZDP-189. HAP40. VG10.


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