Can I baton with lc200n?

[MacLaren]

Why would LC200N in a fixed blade be a batoning worry? Am I missing something?

For me, not so much LC200N, but the Waterway itself.
Seems like a finesse/filet knife to me. Surely not a knife I would wanna hammer away at batonning with.
Lol, I just dont see hammering it thru seasoned locust.
But that's just me.

Seems a bit thick for a dedicated filet knife at over 3mm thick.

"...well suited to general utility and outdoor use."

If I snap mine splitting some wood with it you guys can call me a knob :D

I could show ya some things my friend. :D
Actually, I think were talking about just different things.
I think your more talking about bushcrafting. I'm sure it would be okay for stuff like that I reckon.

[Surfingringo]

The Waterway will work fine for steaking fish. I use mine all the time that way, sometimes even whacking the spine with my palm to force it though thicker bones and cartilage. The worst you might see is a bit of dulling due to flattening of the apex if the bone is hard enough and the force is great enough. That can be fixed in 20 seconds on the sharp maker though. Have no fear, this is what the knife was made for.

As far as batoning small hardwood? Not sure...depends on who's on the other end of the baton, haha. I'm sure it would be fine if done with common sense.

Batonning small hardwood....dont be so sure Lance.
Seasoned locust, I've saw big powerful chainsaws break a tooth on that stuff. It's as hard as a rock.
No matter who's batonning otd would be a helluva a lot of abuse.
I just wouldnt use a blanket guarantee regarding hardwood.
Lol, the Waterway ain't got enough arse on her to make that kind a guarantee. :D

Yeah, honestly, I shouldn’t be talking about batoning at all since it’s not something I ever really do with a knife. I will say that if I ever chose to do that with the waterway I would be cautious about whacking the spine way up towards the tip since there’s not a lot of metal up there.

In the interest of science though, I might have to do a little testing. We’ve got some hardwoods down here in Central America that the termites break their teeth on. Not sure if you’ve ever heard of Nispero? It’s what Black Locust wants to be when it grows up. Hehe. Pretty much the same thing as Bulletwood and probably twice as hard as Locust. It’s easily accessible here so I might have to get some and do a little splitting.

[MacLaren]

The Waterway will work fine for steaking fish. I use mine all the time that way, sometimes even whacking the spine with my palm to force it though thicker bones and cartilage. The worst you might see is a bit of dulling due to flattening of the apex if the bone is hard enough and the force is great enough. That can be fixed in 20 seconds on the sharp maker though. Have no fear, this is what the knife was made for.

As far as batoning small hardwood? Not sure...depends on who's on the other end of the baton, haha. I'm sure it would be fine if done with common sense.

Batonning small hardwood....dont be so sure Lance.
Seasoned locust, I've saw big powerful chainsaws break a tooth on that stuff. It's as hard as a rock.
No matter who's batonning otd would be a helluva a lot of abuse.
I just wouldnt use a blanket guarantee regarding hardwood.
Lol, the Waterway ain't got enough arse on her to make that kind a guarantee. :D

Yeah, honestly, I shouldn’t be talking about batoning at all since it’s not something I ever really do with a knife. I will say that if I ever chose to do that with the waterway I would be cautious about whacking the spine way up towards the tip since there’s not a lot of metal up there.

In the interest of science though, I might have to do a little testing. We’ve got some hardwoods down here in Central America that the termites break their teeth on. Not sure if you’ve ever heard of Nispero? It’s what Black Locust wants to be when it grows up. Hehe. Pretty much the same thing as Bulletwood and probably twice as hard as Locust. It’s easily accessible here so I might have to get some and do a little splitting.

What locust wants to be when it grows up? Ok.
Twice as hard as locust? I dunno about that Lance. Just dont how one could really determine that kind of proclamation. But, whatever you say.
Is it real knotty too?
Gum wood is an sob too.
But, really my main point is why use such a great fish knife to of all things baton with? But, then again, little softwood would be good I reckon. Application is everything imo.

[Surfingringo]

The Waterway will work fine for steaking fish. I use mine all the time that way, sometimes even whacking the spine with my palm to force it though thicker bones and cartilage. The worst you might see is a bit of dulling due to flattening of the apex if the bone is hard enough and the force is great enough. That can be fixed in 20 seconds on the sharp maker though. Have no fear, this is what the knife was made for.

As far as batoning small hardwood? Not sure...depends on who's on the other end of the baton, haha. I'm sure it would be fine if done with common sense.

Batonning small hardwood....dont be so sure Lance.
Seasoned locust, I've saw big powerful chainsaws break a tooth on that stuff. It's as hard as a rock.
No matter who's batonning otd would be a helluva a lot of abuse.
I just wouldnt use a blanket guarantee regarding hardwood.
Lol, the Waterway ain't got enough arse on her to make that kind a guarantee. :D

Yeah, honestly, I shouldn’t be talking about batoning at all since it’s not something I ever really do with a knife. I will say that if I ever chose to do that with the waterway I would be cautious about whacking the spine way up towards the tip since there’s not a lot of metal up there.

In the interest of science though, I might have to do a little testing. We’ve got some hardwoods down here in Central America that the termites break their teeth on. Not sure if you’ve ever heard of Nispero? It’s what Black Locust wants to be when it grows up. Hehe. Pretty much the same thing as Bulletwood and probably twice as hard as Locust. It’s easily accessible here so I might have to get some and do a little splitting.

What locust wants to be when it grows up? Ok.
Twice as hard as locust? I dunno about that Lance. Just dont how one could really determine that kind of proclamation. But, whatever you say.
Is it real knotty too?
Gum wood is an sob too.
But, really my main point is why use such a great fish knife to of all things baton with? But, then again, little softwood would be good I reckon. Application is everything imo.

Check this out. Hardness tests for wood that are similar to those performed on steel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

Sorry MacLaren, I wasn’t trying to be contentious and I’m not pretending to be an “internet authority” on this. I knew nothing about wood hardness testing until I looked it up on google a half hour ago. I just know that we have some very hard woods down here. I’ve heard that some of our hardwoods are far harder than anything in the US and it seems that is true. And yes, it appears from these “Janka scores” that bulletwood is almost twice as hard as locust.

I’m certainly not disagreeing with you about batoning though. Every design has its limits and batoning a very hard wood might be past the limit of what a waterway is capable of. I never do any batoning because I’ve never seen any need for it, but I do enjoy testing to see what different designs and geometries are capable of.

[MacLaren]

Batonning small hardwood....dont be so sure Lance.
Seasoned locust, I've saw big powerful chainsaws break a tooth on that stuff. It's as hard as a rock.
No matter who's batonning otd would be a helluva a lot of abuse.
I just wouldnt use a blanket guarantee regarding hardwood.
Lol, the Waterway ain't got enough arse on her to make that kind a guarantee. :D

Yeah, honestly, I shouldn’t be talking about batoning at all since it’s not something I ever really do with a knife. I will say that if I ever chose to do that with the waterway I would be cautious about whacking the spine way up towards the tip since there’s not a lot of metal up there.

In the interest of science though, I might have to do a little testing. We’ve got some hardwoods down here in Central America that the termites break their teeth on. Not sure if you’ve ever heard of Nispero? It’s what Black Locust wants to be when it grows up. Hehe. Pretty much the same thing as Bulletwood and probably twice as hard as Locust. It’s easily accessible here so I might have to get some and do a little splitting.

What locust wants to be when it grows up? Ok.
Twice as hard as locust? I dunno about that Lance. Just dont how one could really determine that kind of proclamation. But, whatever you say.
Is it real knotty too?
Gum wood is an sob too.
But, really my main point is why use such a great fish knife to of all things baton with? But, then again, little softwood would be good I reckon. Application is everything imo.

Check this out. Hardness tests for wood that are similar to those performed on steel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

Sorry MacLaren, I wasn’t trying to be contentious and I’m not pretending to be an “internet authority” on this. I knew nothing about wood hardness testing until I looked it up on google a half hour ago. I just know that we have some very hard woods down here. I’ve heard that some of our hardwoods are far harder than anything in the US and it seems that is true. And yes, it appears from these “Janka scores” that bulletwood is almost twice as hard as locust.

I’m certainly not disagreeing with you about batoning though. Every design has its limits and batoning a very hard wood might be past the limit of what a waterway is capable of. I never do any batoning because I’ve never seen any need for it, but I do enjoy testing to see what different designs and geometries are capable of.

Well, if I'm ever in Central America that'll come in handy :)
I hereby stand corrected.
Nah, it's all good Lance.

[Surfingringo]

Corrected on wood hardness maybe but your point on batoning with a light duty “finesse” knife is well taken. I think the Waterway is a fairly tough customer but there are definitely limits.

[Calicoast]

I think it would hold up to some abuse, splitting some kindling and or lighter work, but really an axe is 100x better for that application. And if I was going to a place where one knife was needed, it probably wouldnt be the waterway. With that said, I am looking forward to receiving my waterway on Friday.

[Zatx]

I think the point of this thread is that Lance needs to design a cleaver in LC200N!!!

[wrdwrght]

I think it would hold up to some abuse, splitting some kindling and or lighter work, but really an axe is 100x better for that application. And if I was going to a place where one knife was needed, it probably wouldnt be the waterway. With that said, I am looking forward to receiving my waterway on Friday.

These good points prompt me to contextualize my earlier comments.

My chief goal in batoning now is to top-feed a Firebox Stove (look up this really smart camping solution), so the wood I need to baton is maybe in 5-inch lengths, which is a nothing for my Blind Horse Knives Bushcrafter or Bush Baby or my LTWK Genesis.

These knives can certainly split bigger stuff, though an axe would no doubt be better.

In view of a recent WaterWay video and Lance’s comments here, I’m thinking his WaterWay could handle my Firebox Stove requirement but only so long as the wood is less than a 3-inch diameter. I don’t really want to whack just that delicate tip.

With my actual bushcraft knives, I can beat on their tips all day long.

Best to stay within Lance’s design parameters.

[Calicoast]

Marc,
That's kind of what I thought you meant when you said batoning / parameters. I think the waterway could handle that if that was the knife you had, but would prefer another knife to use. I have a four dog stove, and I usually use my LT Wright Camp Muk for that role. Always comes back to the same question, whats the intended use of the knife. But sometimes, you only have one knife available.

[wrdwrght]

Always comes back to the same question, whats the intended use of the knife. But sometimes, you only have one knife available.

Precisely. Which is to say, Be Prepared. :rolleyes:

[RazorSharp86]

Guys, you all are wrong....
Gumwood? Locust?
MY wood’s the hardest...!

[Calicoast]

Being prepared is key. It's not very often that I dont know where I am going, or what I will be doing. If I find myself in the backcountry, I lean towards a knife with more versatility: fire, batoning, etc. 1095 or A2.
https://youtu.be/F9TNeLHq83A

[Pelagic]

Blade thickness and geometry are more important than the steel type when it comes to batoning.

[Surfingringo]

I think it would hold up to some abuse, splitting some kindling and or lighter work, but really an axe is 100x better for that application. And if I was going to a place where one knife was needed, it probably wouldnt be the waterway. With that said, I am looking forward to receiving my waterway on Friday.

These good points prompt me to contextualize my earlier comments.

My chief goal in batoning now is to top-feed a Firebox Stove (look up this really smart camping solution), so the wood I need to baton is maybe in 5-inch lengths, which is a nothing for my Blind Horse Knives Bushcrafter or Bush Baby or my LTWK Genesis.

These knives can certainly split bigger stuff, though an axe would no doubt be better.

In view of a recent WaterWay video and Lance’s comments here, I’m thinking his WaterWay could handle my Firebox Stove requirement but only so long as the wood is less than a 3-inch diameter. I don’t really want to whack just that delicate tip.

With my actual bushcraft knives, I can beat on their tips all day long.

Best to stay within Lance’s design parameters.

Good points Marc.

When I was designing the Waterway I had a number of usage intents in mind. I was trying to make an ideal fixed blade for my fishing uses but I wanted a knife that would be what I felt was a good general use fixed blade. In "general use" I was imagining hunting, fishing and camping mostly. For years I have had an idea to go on multi day fishing trips down the coast in my kayak, stopping and camping along the way. I have yet to actually do it, haha, but the idea definitely played into the design. I was looking to create a "do everything" fixed blade that I could feel comfortable using for everything from fish processing to camp prep. As I said above, I've never really been in a situation where I had an actual need to baton wood with a knife but I knew the question would come up. I still think the knife would be perfectly capable of doing some of the tasks you describe above but some discretion and good judgement would definitely be required.

Apparently Vivi is going to be answering some of these questions for us when he gets his, :D ...and we all know Vivi isn't scared to give his knives a good flogging. I also know that he's been around long enough to know how to stay within limits and I suspect he will find the Waterway plenty capable. We'll see.

[vivi]

I'm hoping to do a little firecraft video this Sunday, assuming mine gets here today or tomorrow.

I know the Waterway is more of a fishing knife, but I'll be using it more for bushcraft and general purpose stuff.

That's something I've always been great at - being attracted to designs meant for something else. How many folks out there do you know that took a Szabo Folder down to 12dps and used it to break down cardboard at work? :rolleyes:

I won't go crazy with the Waterway and try to break it, but I will put it through what I consider tough but reasonable use!

I baton with Perrin Bowies without any issue, and they have pretty thin tips too. You do have to exercise a little more caution (plus on that model the swedge and upturned point chew up batons pretty quick, so it's never going to be my favorite knife for that). When in doubt, I'll grab an ESEE 6 or hatchet.

[Enactive]

Lance and Vivi, glad to see two of my favorite Spydie-knuts having a moment :) .

As a fan of LC I am sorely tempted by the waterway- really don't need it so holding off for now. My Chef and N5 Salt are giving me my LC fix.... for now.

Thanks, Lance for a great design and will be eager to see Vivi getting after it with the Waterway!

[MacLaren]

Well, well, well.
Knifeworks says free CRKayakfishing insulated mug with purchase of Waterway!
What better time to get one.

[Bloke]

Maybe things are different in the US and other countries but here in Oz when I want to light a fire I gather what kindling etc. I need to start the fire and progressively add larger diameter sticks, normal stuff. Once the fire is going I’ll drag whatever dead fall logs I can find close handy and either put the middle of a whatever length log in the fire or just one end and feed it into the fire as required.

I’m a pyromaniac and light fires every chance I get summer or winter. In company I always take on fire starting and maintenance duty and we sit around the “Bush Television” have a drink and spin yarns.

I’ve never once had to baton a knife to start or maintain a fire and I’m sure I never will. As I’m sure there are different scenarios and different situations in different countries so I’m not being dismissive it’s just something I don’t rightly understand plus a lot of our bush timber you can bounce axe’s off for little or no effect and I wonder where do you find short lengths of straight grained timber to baton in the first place? :)

[Surfingringo]

Maybe things are different in the US and other countries but here in Oz when I want to light a fire I gather what kindling etc. I need to start the fire and progressively add larger diameter sticks, normal stuff. Once the fire is going I’ll drag whatever dead fall logs I can find close handy and either put the middle of a whatever length log in the fire or just one end and feed it into the fire as required....

Here we are doing our best trying to invent uses for our knives and you’re out there breaking sticks over your knee? You oughta be ashamed of yourself Bloke! :p