Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

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kennethsime
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby kennethsime » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:26 pm

Woodpuppy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:45 am
kennethsime wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:35 pm
I'd also be happy to hear about a budget (Chinese) run of the Proficient. I think the Bow River is a really great offering, and I'd be happy to pay up to $100 for a Chinese-made Proficient if the steel could compete with ESEE's 1095.
Chinese made would be a hard pass for me. I’ll leave my reasons aside to keep things shiny...
Yea I totally respect that. I think it would be a different project for sure.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green
MT27 Mule Team 27 Micro-Melt PD#1 Ranger Green | C36GPGR Military 204p Dark Green

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sal
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby sal » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:49 pm

kennethsime wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:26 pm
Woodpuppy wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:45 am
kennethsime wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:35 pm
I'd also be happy to hear about a budget (Chinese) run of the Proficient. I think the Bow River is a really great offering, and I'd be happy to pay up to $100 for a Chinese-made Proficient if the steel could compete with ESEE's 1095.
Chinese made would be a hard pass for me. I’ll leave my reasons aside to keep things shiny...
Yea I totally respect that. I think it would be a different project for sure.
Hi Kennethsime,

I'm afraid I can't do that. 1st, we don't move a model from one maker to another unless there is a real problem with the maker. 2nd, All of the effort in design and production have been invested in producing the design. The maker has already made 3 variations, It would really be a stab in the back of a loyal maker. The Bow River was planned for China from the beginning.

Also, I'm trying hard to avoid politics on the forums in these troubled times, but I'm not real happy with China right now with COVID-19. I'm hiding and watching to see how it comes out?

sal

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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby cycleguy » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:51 pm

sal wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:07 pm
This happens to be my project and has been since the original "Bushcraft", That UK Ken asked us to make. Then the "Proficient", which was the result of Forumites asking for a more Modern version than Spalted Maple or G-10 with O1, but with Chris Claycomb's excellent handle design. So we made the Proficient with CPM-S90V and solid Carbon fiber. We jokingly called it the "NASA version", A real classic that I personally bought 10 of to use as gifts in the future, as it probably won't go more than one run.

Then Darby started talking about a version with more of an all around user with less expensive materials then the Proficient. That's how we ended up with Micarta and CPM Cruwear. We're currently involved in getting a quote for that version. I don't know if it will be much cheaper, but I'm with you on the version. The tooling for the Claycomb handle was expensive as was the actual machining. If we can make it and cost works out, I think it will be another Classic.

sal
Hi Sal,

How does one go about getting on your gift list? :)

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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kennethsime
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby kennethsime » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:25 pm

sal wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:49 pm
Hi Kennethsime,

I'm afraid I can't do that. 1st, we don't move a model from one maker to another unless there is a real problem with the maker. 2nd, All of the effort in design and production have been invested in producing the design. The maker has already made 3 variations, It would really be a stab in the back of a loyal maker. The Bow River was planned for China from the beginning.

Also, I'm trying hard to avoid politics on the forums in these troubled times, but I'm not real happy with China right now with COVID-19. I'm hiding and watching to see how it comes out?

sal
Sal, I appreciate your response.

Please excuse my ignorance, I thought the Bow River was essentially a "Chinese South Fork," as they were both somewhat similar Phil Wilson designs. When I requested a "Chinese Proficient," this comparison is what I had in mind. Perhaps I could have been more careful about my request; I didn't mean to suggest betrayal.

I am still looking forward to the Crucarta Proficient, and hope I can pick one up once it's released.
Lost to the Ages: C90GRE Stretch 1 ZDP-189 British Racing Green | C28GRE2 Dragonfly 2 ZDP-189 British Racing Green
C12BK2W Matriarch 2 VG-10 Emerson Open | C81G2 Para Military 2 S30V

Currently Rotating: C81GPRGR2 Para Military 2 K390 Ranger Green | C223GPRGR Para 3 K390 Ranger Green
C90FPIV2 Stretch 2 Straight Spine, VG-10 Rit Dye'd Dark Apple Green | C223GP Para 3 S30V Green Canvas Micarta
C41BORE5 Native 5 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange | C223BORE Para 3 Lightweight REX 45 Burnt Orange
C101GY2 Manix 2 Lightweight Maxamet Gray | C28GFG Dragonfly VG-10 Foliage Green
MT27 Mule Team 27 Micro-Melt PD#1 Ranger Green | C36GPGR Military 204p Dark Green

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Pancake
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby Pancake » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:30 am

I have to say, that this knife intriguing me so much, but on the other hand, it will be so expensive that it could be a no go for me. I have not have more opposite thoughts on a knife in a long time.
Hope that next Reveal will bring it.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
On belt: Waterway

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KnOeFz
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby KnOeFz » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:08 am

ok, bumping this thread got me all exited again :D

Team Sick
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby Team Sick » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:13 pm

I'd vote for Elmax or 3v with Micarta handles, but would like to see it with a Convex grind.

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legOFwhat?
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby legOFwhat? » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:40 am

sal wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:16 pm
Hi Kiku,

1. was answered

2. Weight reduction to be the same as the "live" blade. Also, trainers were originally all made with red handles so they are easily identified. Then customers were repeatedly asking for red knives with "live" blades so we honored their requests and made some red live knives.

3. We just got a quote back from the maker for a Curwear Proficient with Micarta handles. The price was not much lower than the S90V version. Sine the request was for a lower cost, we opted not to go forward. The majority of the cost is in the machining of the handle.

sal
May have to budget for an original then, would still like to get a Cruwear fixed blade someday :)
-Larry
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby curlyhairedboy » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:44 am

oh man, that's a bummer. Still, it needs to make business sense....
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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Woodpuppy
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby Woodpuppy » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:28 pm

What about a so-called “mid tech” version with bolt-on CNC machined scales?
:spyder: My other blade is a Kelly Perfect :spyder:

Skidoosh
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby Skidoosh » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:47 pm

PD#1 Mule with burlap micarta is as close as I will get, works for me

Burton Knut
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby Burton Knut » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:01 pm

I didn’t realize the Crucarta version was an attempt to get the price lower than the S90V model. I thought it was just a better steal for a bushcraft type blade. I expected to and was ready to spend similar funds, any cheaper would’ve been icing on the micarta. ;)

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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby ikaretababy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:37 pm

Burton Knut wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:01 pm
I didn’t realize the Crucarta version was an attempt to get the price lower than the S90V model. I thought it was just a better steal for a bushcraft type blade. I expected to and was ready to spend similar funds, any cheaper would’ve been icing on the micarta. ;)
Same. I'm really bummed out the project is off but I understand Sal's reasoning. I'd have paid the price even if it was up there. I know I can get a cruwear fixed blade from a lot of other makers but not with such a perfect handle design!!

blueblur
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby blueblur » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:58 pm

It’s really unfortunate to hear this won’t be getting the green light.

Gsg9
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby Gsg9 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:29 am

how loyalty kills a project, this would make a good case study for the economics classes
not being able to reduce prices doesn't seem to be a problem with the maker for Spyderco

here's what a chinese maker can offer for 30$, food for thought
also look at the pocket clip, Spyderco sends us to spend another 30$ for an aftermarket clip in order to support the local clip "industry"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddvVco3_ClY

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Pancake
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby Pancake » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:53 am

Gsg9 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:29 am
how loyalty kills a project, this would make a good case study for the economics classes
not being able to reduce prices doesn't seem to be a problem with the maker for Spyderco

here's what a chinese maker can offer for 30$, food for thought
also look at the pocket clip, Spyderco sends us to spend another 30$ for an aftermarket clip in order to support the local clip "industry"
Proficient is not made in China, but in Taichung, Taiwan, and Taichung made Spydercos are a level above in fit and finish and in materials compare to Chinese made.
I think it's not fair comparing fairly simple linerlock with what, VG-10? to a Cru-Wear and micarta fixed blade.
I have some experience with fixed blade knife making and I'll tell one thing, handle shaping takes a ton of time. Even basic rounding off the scales and smoothing everything takes a lot of time. Making 3D sculpted handle takes even more time.

I would hope that this micarta Proficient could sell around 250-270€ and I would pay that price. But being almost the same price as S90V is a no go for ne
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
On belt: Waterway

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sal
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby sal » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:34 am

Hi Gsg9,

Thanx, I understand your point of view, which is primarily get it cheaper, and I must admit that there are many that think the same way. But there is really more to the decision than just loyalty, though loyalty is an important value to Spyderco.

sal

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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby curlyhairedboy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:01 pm

Sal, I know the PD#1 mule has been sporadically in stock - are there plans to keep that on deck for those interested in a Cruwear-adjacent fixed blade?
EDC Rotation: PITS, Shaman, CF S90v Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, DLC Lil Native, Sage 5 LW, 4V Shaman, Watu, Rex 45 Shaman, Rex 45 Lil Native, Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, Tanto PM2, Serrated Shaman
Always in Pocket: Hawkbill Dragonfly 2 H1
Fixed Blades: Proficient, Junction, Waterway
Special and Sentimental: Southard, Smallfly G10, Squarehead LW, Ouroboros, Calendar Para 3 LW, 40th Anniversary Native, Calendar Watu
Would like to own again: Currently N/A!
Wishlist: Smallfly 2, CQI SpyderEdge Caribbean Sheepsfoot, Shaman Sprints!

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:07 pm

Oh well. It is what it is. I had a feeling cost could be an issue. I had $300 ready to go but I also realize how much cash that is for a fixed blade.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: Cruwear micarta Bushcraft/Proficient

Postby Gsg9 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:10 pm

sal wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:34 am
Hi Gsg9,

Thanx, I understand your point of view, which is primarily get it cheaper, and I must admit that there are many that think the same way. But there is really more to the decision than just loyalty, though loyalty is an important value to Spyderco.

sal

Hi Sal,

I understand loyalty and respect your values, unfortunately seems to me that sticking with that particular maker killed this project, as there was no room for price reduction with that maker.

If machining is expensive in Taiwan it may be cheaper in China...

So for now it's a win-win: there's no micarta cruwear proficient and no further business(at least for this knife model) for that taiwanese maker.

The original request was to get it cheaper.

Maybe a better approach would have been to check first with the original maker(loyalty) and then if not possible with that one within a certain budget check for other options in order to achieve the original request and get the project done.


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