My choice: I went with the Salt 2 Wharncliffe.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

sal, and everyone, I went with the Salt 2 Wharncliffe, in serrated H1 steel.

What kind of performance should I expect from this ?

I know it is 100 percent rust-proof.

Would you class this as a "little big knife" and the serrated H1 will enable it to cut like a much larger knife?

Also, what sharpener do you recommend I use to keep it honed?

[The Meat man]

Nice choice SEF!

I can't remember: is this your first H-1 Serrated model?

Either way I fully expect that SE/wharncliffe combination to be a winner - kind of halfway between a regular blade and a hawkbill. I'd expect incredible cutting performance in a relatively compact, 100% rust proof package. :)

As far as sharpening, I can only recommend the Sharpmaker. It's what I use to keep my Pacific Salt SE sharp and it is very easy to use. For touching up, I like to use the ultra-fine rods at 40°, making a polished microbevel. I get very good performance with this technique and the H-1 is a breeze to get hair whittling sharp.

[dsvirsky]

Every knife represents a compromise and, in my opinion, the Salt 2 wharncliffe is a very effective one. It isn't as big as the Pacific Salt, but the Salt wharncliffe is big enough for most any routine chore and it's fully 1/3 (one ounce) lighter than the Pacific Salt. It doesn't slice quite as effectively as the flat ground SE Jazzellica, but SE H-1 holds an edge longer than SE VG-10 and is rustproof. I generally like to carry a serrated Spydie around the house and I find the Pac Salt and the Salt wharnie getting roughly equal time in my pocket.

As for edge maintenance, the Sharpmaker is the way to go. I find that the 30° setting hits the edge on my Salt 2 wharncliffe, so that's what I use; fine or ultra-fine rods for normal touch ups.

[Wartstein]

..., but SE H-1 holds an edge longer than SE VG-10...

That's interesting!... I have not too much experience with SE, and that only with SE in VG10 (Delica and Endura combo edge).

Why does in SE blades H1 hold an edge longer than VG10? Is it, because an SE blade is more "fragile", and so a tougher but softer steel works better concerning edge retention?

[dsvirsky]

Can't tell you the why, just that Sal said H-1 outperforms VG-10 in SE.

[Wartstein]

Can't tell you the why, just that Sal said H-1 outperforms VG-10 in SE.

Thanks! Can't imagine that VG10 really dulls faster than H1 in the true sense of the word, but maybe in SE blades VG 10s general cutting performance decreases faster for other reasons... but, as said, I am not really entitled to discusd SE blades.

[SF Native]

..., but SE H-1 holds an edge longer than SE VG-10...

That's interesting!... I have not too much experience with SE, and that only with SE in VG10 (Delica and Endura combo edge).

Why does in SE blades H1 hold an edge longer than VG10? Is it, because an SE blade is more "fragile", and so a tougher but softer steel works better concerning edge retention?

That has not been my experience. I think the serrations hide the soft, easy to dull nature of H1, but I don’t think it has better edge retention. I also find the ffg is easier to sharpen as it’s so thin.

[Mushroom]

..., but SE H-1 holds an edge longer than SE VG-10...

That's interesting!... I have not too much experience with SE, and that only with SE in VG10 (Delica and Endura combo edge).

Why does in SE blades H1 hold an edge longer than VG10? Is it, because an SE blade is more "fragile", and so a tougher but softer steel works better concerning edge retention?

Apparently, H1 is a work hardened steel (which is why it can't be flat ground) and when the serrations are ground into the blade, it creates a much harder edge than normal. The more you sharpen the knife, the harder the edge will get. I'm partly paraphrasing, but Sal has explained this here in the past.

:spyder:

[Jazz]

Nice choice, bro. When it comes time for yard work, mine will be getting some serious use.

Just use the Sharpmaker, or some other triangle stone, like the small Lansky ones.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you for your great replies and useful insight. Now I am eager to see Spyderco make a Wharncliffe Pacific Salt.

[Wartstein]

..., but SE H-1 holds an edge longer than SE VG-10...

That's interesting!... I have not too much experience with SE, and that only with SE in VG10 (Delica and Endura combo edge).

Why does in SE blades H1 hold an edge longer than VG10? Is it, because an SE blade is more "fragile", and so a tougher but softer steel works better concerning edge retention?

Apparently, H1 is a work hardened steel (which is why it can't be flat ground) and when the serrations are ground into the blade, it creates a much harder edge than normal. The more you sharpen the knife, the harder the edge will get. I'm partly paraphrasing, but Sal has explained this here in the past.

:spyder:

Mushroom, thanks for your explanation! But to be honest, I still don't fully comprehend the properties of H1 I am afraid... Why exactly it "gets harder the more you sharpen it"? And it literally "can't be flat ground"? Why would a SE blade get the harder the more you sharpen it, but not a PE blade?

Only a bit similar experience I have myself is with Esees 1095 . For me it´s quite soft and dulls very fast imo when the knife is new. That gets better after several sharpenings (though for me, even though I like and keep my Laser Strike for other reasons, Esees 1095 is still run too soft).

[vivi]

The way ESEE runs their 1095 is nice for a larger knife. With my 6HM I can accidentally hit some rocks when chopping / batoning, and sharpen out the damage in less than a minute. It isn't thebest for a small knife like the Izula though.

Serrated H1 knives hold an edge better than PE. Something about the process of grinding the serrations on the blades work hardens them, to my understanding. Regardless of the science behind it, having spent years carrying Pacific Salts in both PE and SE, I can back it up with personal experience.

H1 can't be full flat ground in a production environment according to Sal. You can modify a Salt knife with a belt sander to achieve that grind, but the factory knives are all saber hollow ground.

[Wartstein]

The way ESEE runs their 1095 is nice for a larger knife. With my 6HM I can accidentally hit some rocks when chopping / batoning, and sharpen out the damage in less than a minute. It isn't thebest for a small knife like the Izula though.

Serrated H1 knives hold an edge better than PE. Something about the process of grinding the serrations on the blades work hardens them, to my understanding. Regardless of the science behind it, having spent years carrying Pacific Salts in both PE and SE, I can back it up with personal experience.

H1 can't be full flat ground in a production environment according to Sal. You can modify a Salt knife with a belt sander to achieve that grind, but the factory knives are all saber hollow ground.

Concerning Esee, I somehow feel bad to maybe having given a somewhat negative impression, when in fact and to be honest I have no other 1095 blades than Esees for comparison. So, to be fair and clear, I don't know from experience if only Esees 1095 is somewhat soft for me or 1095 would be in general.

That said, aside from having to sharpen it quite often (but that's very easy), I really like the toughness of my Esee Laser Strike. In fact, I do a lot of no-spin-throwing with exactly this knife and it takes it with absolutely no problems or damages.

And, what's really true: The edge holding of Esees 1095 (or maybe also 1095 in other brands) gets noticeable better after several sharpenings. Is this your experience too?

/ So, enough OT, back to H1: Thanks for the further explanation! Now I know, what is meant here in theorie. Though still I don't understand technically, why grinding a serration hardens the steel, but grinding a (plain) edge does not...

[The Meat man]

/ So, enough OT, back to H1: Thanks for the further explanation! Now I know, what is meant here in theorie. Though still I don't understand technically, why grinding a serration hardens the steel, but grinding a (plain) edge does not...

There is a lot more grinding involved in creating serrations than in making a plain edge. This is why the serrated edges are harder than the plain ones - there's just more grinding involved, which in turn causes increased work hardening.

The grinding process hardens the plain edge too, just not to the same extent as the serrated.

[Wartstein]

/ So, enough OT, back to H1: Thanks for the further explanation! Now I know, what is meant here in theorie. Though still I don't understand technically, why grinding a serration hardens the steel, but grinding a (plain) edge does not...

There is a lot more grinding involved in creating serrations than in making a plain edge. This is why the serrated edges are harder than the plain ones - there's just more grinding involved, which in turn causes increased work hardening.

The grinding process hardens the plain edge too, just not to the same extent as the serrated.

Thanks for the further explanation!

Do you happen to know WHY exactly the grinding (work-)hardens the blade? Is it something a bit like how they hardenend bronce-swords in ancient times by hammering and therefore compressing the edge and making it denser / harder? (Sure not the same process, but maybe the grinding has a comparable outcome)
Or has it to do with heat, developing while grinding?

Hope my questions don't get annoying.. it's just that like most here I am really interested in everything concerning knives...

[The Meat man]

/ So, enough OT, back to H1: Thanks for the further explanation! Now I know, what is meant here in theorie. Though still I don't understand technically, why grinding a serration hardens the steel, but grinding a (plain) edge does not...

There is a lot more grinding involved in creating serrations than in making a plain edge. This is why the serrated edges are harder than the plain ones - there's just more grinding involved, which in turn causes increased work hardening.

The grinding process hardens the plain edge too, just not to the same extent as the serrated.

Thanks for the further explanation!

Do you happen to know WHY exactly the grinding (work-)hardens the blade? Is it something a bit like how they hardenend bronce-swords in ancient times by hammering and therefore compressing the edge and making it denser / harder? (Sure not the same process, but maybe the grinding has a comparable outcome)
Or has it to do with heat, developing while grinding?

Hope my questions don't get annoying.. it's just that like most here I am really interested in everything concerning knives...

Questions make for interesting and informative discussions.

I don't fully understand how work hardening works on a molecular level, but you're correct that hammering out a material is work hardening it. It's the same thing when you bend a wire coat hanger back and forth until it breaks.

Now these are examples of plastic deformation causing work hardening; grinding is different in that it's only removing material, not reshaping it. Apparently this still causes work hardening. I suppose that at a small enough scale, grinding is just forcibly tearing off surface metal - in that sense, it's a kind of a plastic deformation.

This brings up another question that's been asked here before: how deep does the work hardening go? Is it just a surface phenomenon or does it extends through the entire thickness of the blade? I haven't heard any answers to that one yet.

[Wartstein]

/ So, enough OT, back to H1: Thanks for the further explanation! Now I know, what is meant here in theorie. Though still I don't understand technically, why grinding a serration hardens the steel, but grinding a (plain) edge does not...

There is a lot more grinding involved in creating serrations than in making a plain edge. This is why the serrated edges are harder than the plain ones - there's just more grinding involved, which in turn causes increased work hardening.

The grinding process hardens the plain edge too, just not to the same extent as the serrated.

Thanks for the further explanation!

Do you happen to know WHY exactly the grinding (work-)hardens the blade? Is it something a bit like how they hardenend bronce-swords in ancient times by hammering and therefore compressing the edge and making it denser / harder? (Sure not the same process, but maybe the grinding has a comparable outcome)
Or has it to do with heat, developing while grinding?

Hope my questions don't get annoying.. it's just that like most here I am really interested in everything concerning knives...

Questions make for interesting and informative discussions.

I don't fully understand how work hardening works on a molecular level, but you're correct that hammering out a material is work hardening it. It's the same thing when you bend a wire coat hanger back and forth until it breaks.

Now these are examples of plastic deformation causing work hardening; grinding is different in that it's only removing material, not reshaping it. Apparently this still causes work hardening. I suppose that at a small enough scale, grinding is just forcibly tearing off surface metal - in that sense, it's a kind of a plastic deformation.

This brings up another question that's been asked here before: how deep does the work hardening go? Is it just a surface phenomenon or does it extends through the entire thickness of the blade? I haven't heard any answers to that one yet.

Thanx once again!

If it is true what mushroom stated: "The more you sharpen the knife, the harder the edge gets", the work hardening should extend trough the entire thickness of the blade.
I really can't imagine that one does NEW work hardening by just sharpening by hand (so not grinding). That would mean, the deeper parts of the blade that come to the surface in the sharpening process, must be work-hardenend already, right?!

And if I think of my example how the edges of bronceswords were once hardenend by hammering them: I tend to think, that this would compress the whole hammered part of the blade and make it denser and harder, not just the surface...

[Blue72]

I must be doing something wrong. Because I carry a h1 knife daily for many many years and it is constantly sharpened to keep a razors edge. I noticed no improvement in edge hardness. It still requires constant touch, up compared to other steels

But since it’s soft it sharpens quickly

I can’t speak for serrated edge H1 though

[Evil D]

I'm still not convinced that sharpening is enough to work harden H1. I also don't see why there can't be some kind of grinding process applied to PE to get this increased work hardened edge. Would a similar chisel grind PE see the same hardening? I have talked to a couple guys who had PE H1 knives reground thinner and FFG but say they saw no difference in edge retention.

[Wartstein]

I'm still not convinced that sharpening is enough to work harden H1. I also don't see why there can't be some kind of grinding process applied to PE to get this increased work hardened edge. Would a similar chisel grind PE see the same hardening? I have talked to a couple guys who had PE H1 knives reground thinner and FFG but say they saw no difference in edge retention.

Like I mentionend in my post above: I really can't imagine that a regular sharpening could create NEW work hardening to H1... When I figure how light the applied pressure is while doing a touch up on a sharpmaker, how could this ever work- harden a blade?