Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
vivi
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#21

Post by vivi »

The material used matters as well. Arkansas stone VS Diamond VS CBN VS Ceramic - if you buy a "800 grit" stone of each type, performance will vary greatly.
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Tucson Tom
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#22

Post by Tucson Tom »

SleeplessInSoCal wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:55 am
Is 30° inclusive the Sharpmaker angles that we should use to maintain the factory angle on our knives? In other words, is that the angle that I’m looking at when I pull a brand new sprint Para 2 or Manix 2 from its box?

Asking for a friend.
Don't be embarassed, you can ask for yourself and nobody will think any worse of you.

By using the sharpie method, I have found the factory grind to be as dead on 30 as I can measure (using the Sharpmaker 30 degree setup as my standard). This is for the handful of knives made in Golden that I have measured. It could be different for knives from Seki City or Taiwan, or .....

I would certainly expect 30 to be "correct" for the knives you mention, but it is easy enough for you to check.
Daveho
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#23

Post by Daveho »

I have various whetstones, a couple of lansky systems and a tormek.
Factory edge is not great
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Tucson Tom
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#24

Post by Tucson Tom »

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:31 am
Well now this is interesting, it turns out the Spyderco Brown stone they are calling coarse is anything but coarse.
One man's coarse is another man's horse. In other words, the word "coarse" is meaningless for any purpose other than say, to compare a brown "coarse" to a white "fine". To compare to other makers products we'll have to use numbers.

You can dig around and try to get grit numbers on the Spyderco stones. The official word, as I now unofficially paraphrase it, seems to be that the Spyderco stones are all made from the same grit raw material, and their surface finish differs. As long as you realize you are comparing apples to oranges, you can ponder the following "grit equivalents" for Spyderco rods that I dug up some time ago:

Coarse (brown) = 15 micron = 1200
Fine (standard white) = 5-7 micron = 3000
Ultra-fine (special white) = 3 micron = 8000

So in the world of Spyderco tools, 1200 grit is coarse. But you have already been warned that these numbers are semi-fictitious, or maybe we should say quasi-factual.
Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#25

Post by Doeswhateveraspidercan »

Interesting and Vivi makes a good point as well.

I am actually delighted to discover real world comparisons I am familiar with. This little experiment helped me to realize a few things In a tactile real world way instead of a Synthetic Numerical Value only.

For example I was always hesitant to spend too much time with the brown stones for fear of material removal because they were deemed coarse.

Coarse to me was 100 / 200 grit hogging off steel WEP Diamond stones now those are coarse! I did realize of-course that the brown stones were not that coarse but never would have guessed they are that fine always thought they would fall in the 600 to 800 grit range of WEP Diamond Stone which explains quite a bit with why I have found them to be less than effective with certain steels that have become very dull.

It is not that the tool is ineffective it is that the Brown Stones are not coarse by any standard other than comparison with the systems other finer stones.

Just to be clear I not only went by the feel of the drag on the blade but the edge it produced when cutting through paper. It does not get any more real world than that.

I think next I will do some comparisons with SIC stones and Diamonds from the Hapstone 7 System and see how they compare. I already know the Wicked Edge Pro Diamonds are more aggressive from a long term S90V Scandi grind project on a MIlitary
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Enactive
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#26

Post by Enactive »

I freehand sharpen on bench stones. I primarily use a 1000/6000 Japanese 'water stone.' I also have a medium/coarse Norton Crystolon stone that is good for reprofiling and repair. Depending on the steel and application the finish will vary. I will finish wood working knives (mostly scandi grind) with a higher polish and strop because there is so much push cutting and a polished fine edge works best for that. For general purpose outdoor/ EDC i am experimenting with coarser finishes.

In terms of angles. I will sometimes follow the factory geometry and sometimes narrow to ~15 DPS.

Kitchen knives i will go for much more acute bevel angles.

-JM
SleeplessInSoCal
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#27

Post by SleeplessInSoCal »

Tucson Tom wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:10 pm
SleeplessInSoCal wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:55 am
Is 30° inclusive the Sharpmaker angles that we should use to maintain the factory angle on our knives? In other words, is that the angle that I’m looking at when I pull a brand new sprint Para 2 or Manix 2 from its box?

Asking for a friend.
Don't be embarassed, you can ask for yourself and nobody will think any worse of you.

By using the sharpie method, I have found the factory grind to be as dead on 30 as I can measure (using the Sharpmaker 30 degree setup as my standard). This is for the handful of knives made in Golden that I have measured. It could be different for knives from Seki City or Taiwan, or .....

I would certainly expect 30 to be "correct" for the knives you mention, but it is easy enough for you to check.

Fantastic, thanks for your help!

“Asking for a friend.” was tongue in cheek. I’ll probably make it my signature. :)
JD Spydo
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#28

Post by JD Spydo »

I have preached for years that if anyone get's a Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker you must get the extra rods/stones available to make it complete and more versatile. I just wish at some point they would make a more aggressive coarse grit stone for rapid bar stock removal of really beat up blades. Because you can really get some very desirable results using the 204 Sharpmaker.

I've also told people to get some type of clamping system or tool so you have both hands free when using it. It improved my results greatly. Currently I'm using a Vice-Grip Welder's Clamp model 11P and it works like a charm. A good friend of mine is now using a small wood clamp on his and he has noticed better results as well. Having both hands free does help you to concentrate keeping your angles more consistent>> at least it made a great improvement in my overall results and everyone else I've gotten to implement that strategy has also gotten excellent results as well.

By not letting your blades get very dull is a big help as well. I usually tune up my M390 Military on the Sharpmaker with the fine and Ultra-fine stones at least 3 times a week keeps a very sharp tool always handy.
soc_monki
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Re: Different Tools, Different Steels, Different Angles Different Grits to get your Spydies Blade Factory Fresh

#29

Post by soc_monki »

i have to say, after my experience tonight i may have to get a sharpmaker SOON.

i decided to sharpen my ZT 0566 since it wasnt exactly razor sharp when it arrived (used knife...honestly it didnt even look used, maybe the grind wasnt great from the factory?) anyway, i touched it up a little at work and it did ok, but i still wasnt happy. decided to break out my lansky angle system to see what i could do and well...it was ok, and it looked prettier but didnt really do too well cutting. im just not good with it i guess?

anyway, broke out the turn box and started on the brown rods. kept checking the edge with an led flash light (candling) to see if i had any reflections...back to the rods...until there were no more shiny spots. pulled out the white rods and went to work cleaning up the edge. tested it on some paper and it cut like butter. did the arm hair test and my hair literally jumped off my arm with the slightest touch! i amazed, and scared, myself!

so you can get amazing results with a 20 dollar lansky turn box. unbelievable. i think im going to sell the angle system because, honestly, i dont need it. i can only imagine a sharpmaker would work even better than the turn box having more acute angles and of course the triangle stones. if i really need to reprofile i have my smiths tri-hone.

by the way, my 0566 has S35vn steel, so apparently its not an "easy" steel to sharpen. i disagree...the turnbox did fine so unless i let it get super dull (not likely) i dont see any need for any stones above the brown and white in the sharpmaker.

i guess its whatever works, right?
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