i was at a school function and ended up at a musem. our 8th grade class was walking through the exibits and we got to the violence part. it had staistics about how bad vidio games and tv shoes are for the teenagers we are. then i saw a sign which read 50'000 people in california attended a gun show last year, guns are just too easy to get. (the exact wording might be a little paraphrased but that is what it said) i almost jumped up and hit the guide! there are my classmates being brainwashed by a photo of some nice old men handling guns at a gunshow. it is not a violent picture, just a typical gun show picture. im not sure what they were trying to show, because im pretty sure that those guys werent going to play quake, get some bad ideas, and shoot up the local A@P. there is nothing wrong with attending a gun show! so i started to bug my teacher, (a liberal chaporone) who stated, as if shocked, that there are gunshows where you are allowed to handle weapons. i asked her what the problem was with that and we argued for like 20 minutes. i am educated in the subject enough that this crap isnt going to brainwash me. but some of my classmates could very well be sucked into this antigun hype. i am very scared as to what the future will bring. by the time i grow up i may no longer be allowed to own guns. this is a horrible thing people. i had to post this here because you are the only people who would listen.
note, the spelling is probably terrible because i am so angry right now. also i might have left out some facts so if you have any questions let me know
yes. i could beat you in a fistfight, but id rather slaughter you with a blowtorch
rant pretaining to guns
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Sword and Shield
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WorkForALiving
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Many people have the attention span of fleas. They live in a world where sound-bites ARE the news. They form opinions based on pre-digested and pre-packaged news stories.
It sounds like the museum was trying to teach gun control in two sentences. Gun control defies this type of simple sound-bite discussion because it is VERY complex.
Personally, I believe that some controls are necessary for guns. But, like many things, these controls need to be done in moderation and with a thorough understanding of the effects.
It sounds like the museum was trying to teach gun control in two sentences. Gun control defies this type of simple sound-bite discussion because it is VERY complex.
Personally, I believe that some controls are necessary for guns. But, like many things, these controls need to be done in moderation and with a thorough understanding of the effects.
oh man how nice it is to hear the voices of reason. i too believe that some gun controls are necesarry. but in an exibit that is supposed to let you "decide for yourself", they threw that term around a lot, saying that guns are too easy to get is so blatenly biased, it angered me a lot.
yes. i could beat you in a fistfight, but id rather slaughter you with a blowtorch
yes. i could beat you in a fistfight, but id rather slaughter you with a blowtorch
I have been in law enforcment for almost 8 years, and I have yet to see one gun control law that has prevented anyone form getting killed or injured! The liberal controlled media exploits tragedies like Columbine because #1 it works to put fear into the uneducated on the subject, and #2 it works! They (anti-gunners)have an aggenda and it is to completely eliminate the Second Ammendment! The best thing to do is belong to gun rights oragnizations like NRA or Citizens for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and get educated all you can on the subject! Then pass this knowledge along to those that will listen! Every gun law in the U.S. is unconstitutional, and should be abolished! Delicrazy it's nice to know that there's fine, bright young men like you still out there!
Founder's Quote:
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly
been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;
since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and
arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are
successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist
and triumph over them." --Justice Joseph Story appointed to the
Supreme Court by James Madison, author of our Constitution.
RKBA!!!!!!!
Edited by - Alan2112 on 5/18/2003 3:16:36 AM
Founder's Quote:
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly
been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;
since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and
arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are
successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist
and triumph over them." --Justice Joseph Story appointed to the
Supreme Court by James Madison, author of our Constitution.
RKBA!!!!!!!
Edited by - Alan2112 on 5/18/2003 3:16:36 AM
Anybody not already a member must join the NRA. The Second Amendment clearly defines our Constitutional individual right to keep and bear arms. We CANNOT and we WILL NOT let it be infringed. Also we do not have a system that requires one to have a weapon, it's your personal decision as it should be. This is America folks. Let's keep it that way.<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Jaxon
Jaxon
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Sword and Shield
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At risk of launching into a rehashing of the 10-page philosophical treatise on gun control I did last semester, I'll sum things up in a short little story.
Transplant yourself to a small town in SE Ohio, or almost any small town in the 1960s. Using my grandparents' house as an example, there are two shotguns in the coat closet, the long guns in the hall closet, a couple .38s in the buffet table in the living room, and enough ammo for a years' worth plinking and hunting. Almost every home in town was similar. Children learned to shoot at 8, after learning to handle knives at 6.
Still, someone getting accidentally or intentionally shot was front-page news. Why? People could handle guns. After using them for years, they knew what a gun could do, and how to use it properly. The solution to accidental firearm deaths is not to ban guns, but for everyone to learn how to use them! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
By the time you read this, you'll have already read it.
Transplant yourself to a small town in SE Ohio, or almost any small town in the 1960s. Using my grandparents' house as an example, there are two shotguns in the coat closet, the long guns in the hall closet, a couple .38s in the buffet table in the living room, and enough ammo for a years' worth plinking and hunting. Almost every home in town was similar. Children learned to shoot at 8, after learning to handle knives at 6.
Still, someone getting accidentally or intentionally shot was front-page news. Why? People could handle guns. After using them for years, they knew what a gun could do, and how to use it properly. The solution to accidental firearm deaths is not to ban guns, but for everyone to learn how to use them! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
By the time you read this, you'll have already read it.
No no no....
You have it all wrong! Banning guns(and then knives) will solve all the problems of violence in society. Just look how well it worked with prohibition solving the problem of abuse of alcohol. And even now with the war on drugs solving the problem of people dropping out of the American Dream.
Disguised as a Responsible Adult
You have it all wrong! Banning guns(and then knives) will solve all the problems of violence in society. Just look how well it worked with prohibition solving the problem of abuse of alcohol. And even now with the war on drugs solving the problem of people dropping out of the American Dream.
Disguised as a Responsible Adult
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Sword and Shield
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WorkForALiving
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I've never really been worried about the shotguns or long guns or the accidental deaths caused by the mis-handling of firearms. Follow the rules, handle the gun safely and things will be fine.
What worries me are the INTENTIONAL deaths caused by handguns. Cheap, easily concealable pistols in the hands of hormone-fueled guys in the 13 to 25 age bracket scare the **** out of me.
If someone decides that they don't like the way you drive (for example) the difference between him having or not having a pistol in easy reach means that instead of cursing at you maybe he'll just shoot you.
Some people are irrational or simply cannot control their emotions. Handguns in their hands worry me.
What worries me are the INTENTIONAL deaths caused by handguns. Cheap, easily concealable pistols in the hands of hormone-fueled guys in the 13 to 25 age bracket scare the **** out of me.
If someone decides that they don't like the way you drive (for example) the difference between him having or not having a pistol in easy reach means that instead of cursing at you maybe he'll just shoot you.
Some people are irrational or simply cannot control their emotions. Handguns in their hands worry me.
WFAL,
You're concerned that hormone fueled young men might have handguns but you're OK with them piloting 3000lb guided missiles down the highway?
It's irresponsibilty and evil intent that are dangerous. Blaming the tools takes you down a slippery slope.
In the wake of Sept 11 an Israeli official was interviewed and asked about the security measures being put into place at US airports. His response was the the US insisted on a futile search for weapons rather than a more reasonable search for terrorists.
An evil man with a sharp stick is worrisome to me...
WWill
You're concerned that hormone fueled young men might have handguns but you're OK with them piloting 3000lb guided missiles down the highway?
It's irresponsibilty and evil intent that are dangerous. Blaming the tools takes you down a slippery slope.
In the wake of Sept 11 an Israeli official was interviewed and asked about the security measures being put into place at US airports. His response was the the US insisted on a futile search for weapons rather than a more reasonable search for terrorists.
An evil man with a sharp stick is worrisome to me...
WWill
This is an issue where I can understand both sides of the discussion. I think background checks and waiting periods are probably good ideas. At the same time, I think that law abiding citizens deserve to have the option of carrying firearms for self-defense.
I don't doubt that some categories of people are higher risks for gun violence than others. The question is whether society has a right to pre-emptively keep people from legally carrying guns based on that. I question the ethics of what amounts to a presumption of guilt in advance of any action.
I also have a more pragmatic objection, given that it is not difficult to obtain a gun illegally. I think it is unfair to prevent those in the high risk groups, who are also the most probably victims of those groups, from carrying a firearm for their own defense.
I do not live in a particularly dangerous area and I am not a likely target for any other reason. Despite that I carry a handgun every day. I doubt I will ever need it, but the real world is not just about the odds. I carry it because that is the only way to be sure I will have it if the odds turn against me or one of my loved ones.
Having the right to make that choice is important to all of us, whichever way we make it.
--Bob Q
<a href="http://www.october.com/knives/bob/" target="_blank">http://www.october.com/knives/bob/</a>
I don't doubt that some categories of people are higher risks for gun violence than others. The question is whether society has a right to pre-emptively keep people from legally carrying guns based on that. I question the ethics of what amounts to a presumption of guilt in advance of any action.
I also have a more pragmatic objection, given that it is not difficult to obtain a gun illegally. I think it is unfair to prevent those in the high risk groups, who are also the most probably victims of those groups, from carrying a firearm for their own defense.
I do not live in a particularly dangerous area and I am not a likely target for any other reason. Despite that I carry a handgun every day. I doubt I will ever need it, but the real world is not just about the odds. I carry it because that is the only way to be sure I will have it if the odds turn against me or one of my loved ones.
Having the right to make that choice is important to all of us, whichever way we make it.
--Bob Q
<a href="http://www.october.com/knives/bob/" target="_blank">http://www.october.com/knives/bob/</a>
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dialex
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Here in Romania it is forbidden to carry firearms by civilians (except hunting rifles or CO2 guns for SD).
Yet, the local gangs shoot themselves quite frequently. Looks like the laws are made for law abiding citizens rather than for the bad guys. <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
I also agree that a certain control should exist, mainly for safety purposes (I heard too many stories about accidents).
<a href="http://users.pcnet.ro/dialex"><font color=blue>(my page)</font></a>
Yet, the local gangs shoot themselves quite frequently. Looks like the laws are made for law abiding citizens rather than for the bad guys. <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
I also agree that a certain control should exist, mainly for safety purposes (I heard too many stories about accidents).
<a href="http://users.pcnet.ro/dialex"><font color=blue>(my page)</font></a>
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AllenETreat
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DiALEX :
Sad, but true! Add alcohol consumption
( excessive that is ) and put a gun in
that person's hand.
9 out of 10 times you'll get an "accidental
dis-charge" of the gun or the fool shoots off
his ( or her ) foot! <img src="tongue.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Indeed, the "human element" ruins most things.<img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Judge Lowell Bray bought up a good point in
Blade magazine ( check the copies I sent you ) that that 2nd Amendment DOES NOT
necessarily guarantee the "right" of the
American citizen to "bear arms" but the
right of the Government to arm the militia.
There was a division amongst the politicians
at the time as to what was meant by the gist of the 2nd Amendment. Thomas Jefferson's is the MOST accepted, his view was something like this :
"..and I am asked, "who are the militia?" I
tell you they are every abled bodied man and
son.."
But OF COURSE I'll stand corrected, as I don't have a book in front of me. But it's something like that, and alot of opponents
of the "Federalists" at the time balked at
the concept of an organized Government arming
a "militia" when most Americans were already armed. The debate over this ( Judge Bray's
column bears this out ) rages until today.
Strangely the American Knife & Tool Instituite ( A.K.T.I. ) because of a real
lack of support has often had to compromise
with the State lawmakers and delegate a knife
to be a "tool" ( which it is ) but such definitions make the concept of carrying a knife for "self defense" moot.
Many will argue "we can legally carry a gun";
sadly that "right" is being erodated away too, and soon we'll all need a "permit" to have a set of kitchen cutlery in our very houses! <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> And the "lobby" groups in America
often must compromise with the "powers that be" so, short of another "American Revolution" I don't see how the commoner in this country can expect to stay "armed" for very much longer.
And just look at voxnaes' peril in Denmark!<img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Meebee I'll just settle in your country, DiALEX! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
AET <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Edited by - AllenETreat on 5/19/2003 8:47:09 AM
Sad, but true! Add alcohol consumption
( excessive that is ) and put a gun in
that person's hand.
9 out of 10 times you'll get an "accidental
dis-charge" of the gun or the fool shoots off
his ( or her ) foot! <img src="tongue.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Indeed, the "human element" ruins most things.<img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Judge Lowell Bray bought up a good point in
Blade magazine ( check the copies I sent you ) that that 2nd Amendment DOES NOT
necessarily guarantee the "right" of the
American citizen to "bear arms" but the
right of the Government to arm the militia.
There was a division amongst the politicians
at the time as to what was meant by the gist of the 2nd Amendment. Thomas Jefferson's is the MOST accepted, his view was something like this :
"..and I am asked, "who are the militia?" I
tell you they are every abled bodied man and
son.."
But OF COURSE I'll stand corrected, as I don't have a book in front of me. But it's something like that, and alot of opponents
of the "Federalists" at the time balked at
the concept of an organized Government arming
a "militia" when most Americans were already armed. The debate over this ( Judge Bray's
column bears this out ) rages until today.
Strangely the American Knife & Tool Instituite ( A.K.T.I. ) because of a real
lack of support has often had to compromise
with the State lawmakers and delegate a knife
to be a "tool" ( which it is ) but such definitions make the concept of carrying a knife for "self defense" moot.
Many will argue "we can legally carry a gun";
sadly that "right" is being erodated away too, and soon we'll all need a "permit" to have a set of kitchen cutlery in our very houses! <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> And the "lobby" groups in America
often must compromise with the "powers that be" so, short of another "American Revolution" I don't see how the commoner in this country can expect to stay "armed" for very much longer.
And just look at voxnaes' peril in Denmark!<img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Meebee I'll just settle in your country, DiALEX! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
AET <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Edited by - AllenETreat on 5/19/2003 8:47:09 AM
i didnt used to respect guns...
what seems like a century ago i didnt think of guns as anything. i simply assumed you pulled the trigger and whatever you pointed at would die. no problem. then i joined scouts and went down to smith and wesson day. someone proceeded to get me to the firing range and gave me a .308. which when your shooting for your first time seems pretty darn big. then i see it and feel it. and realize its solid steel. then i pull the trigger and proceed with a very large HOLY SH*T. which got some stares at the range :-D but once youve actually fired a gun you realize it isnt just a big joke. i think everyone should have to fire a gun at least once. it would solve a lot of problems
yes. i could beat you in a fistfight, but id rather slaughter you with a blowtorch
what seems like a century ago i didnt think of guns as anything. i simply assumed you pulled the trigger and whatever you pointed at would die. no problem. then i joined scouts and went down to smith and wesson day. someone proceeded to get me to the firing range and gave me a .308. which when your shooting for your first time seems pretty darn big. then i see it and feel it. and realize its solid steel. then i pull the trigger and proceed with a very large HOLY SH*T. which got some stares at the range :-D but once youve actually fired a gun you realize it isnt just a big joke. i think everyone should have to fire a gun at least once. it would solve a lot of problems
yes. i could beat you in a fistfight, but id rather slaughter you with a blowtorch
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Sword and Shield
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You learn a lot that first day. All of a sudden, you realize that it isn't all a game, that life isn't a video game. Here in your hand is the ability to kill someone at the twitch of a finger. That experience, for well or ill, teaches a person many things.
Some will never pick up a gun again. Some learn to shoot and become quite proficient. Everyone realizes that the gun is simply an instrument, an extension of the user.
By the time you read this, you'll have already read it.
Some will never pick up a gun again. Some learn to shoot and become quite proficient. Everyone realizes that the gun is simply an instrument, an extension of the user.
By the time you read this, you'll have already read it.
There are two cases which will surely get to the supreme court:
o The Emerson ruling which says that the right to keep and bear arms (rkba) resides with the individual - pure and simple.
o Recently the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled just the opposite.
I believe the Emerson ruling will prevail.
Gun Control only does one thing, it assures the criminals (bad guys) that the honest citizen (read that victim) will probably not be carrying a gun.
While some laws are helpful, e.g., requiring that gun locks be sold with firearms, most laws only hinder the honest citizen from protecting themselves.
Check out the book "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott where emperical data is used to show that the book title is correct.
Where states have changed from non-carry states to carry states, violent crime (physical violence and rapes) go down five to eight percent!
Obviously, noting happens in a vacuam, Car Theft and Burglaries go up.
While the latter are very annoying, personally, I prefer less violence.
One way or the other, you pay for your tools!
o The Emerson ruling which says that the right to keep and bear arms (rkba) resides with the individual - pure and simple.
o Recently the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled just the opposite.
I believe the Emerson ruling will prevail.
Gun Control only does one thing, it assures the criminals (bad guys) that the honest citizen (read that victim) will probably not be carrying a gun.
While some laws are helpful, e.g., requiring that gun locks be sold with firearms, most laws only hinder the honest citizen from protecting themselves.
Check out the book "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott where emperical data is used to show that the book title is correct.
Where states have changed from non-carry states to carry states, violent crime (physical violence and rapes) go down five to eight percent!
Obviously, noting happens in a vacuam, Car Theft and Burglaries go up.
While the latter are very annoying, personally, I prefer less violence.
One way or the other, you pay for your tools!
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sc_rebel1957
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All great points, but Alan had about the best, talk to LEOs 1st.
They see that 90% of the crimes commited with firearms aren't from registered users.
I am lucky enough to have been raised around firearms/hunting, and I gained a great respect for them at a very early age.
Teaching the next generation is the key to keeping the rights given to us by the 2nd amendmant.
The ultra liberal media forces the view that all guns are bad down our throats every evening at 6 pm, when we hear of some nut case gang member shooting another kid simply for being from another part of town it's no surprise that guns are percieved as bad/evil and anyone that wants them is just another killing waiting to happen.
The mood is changing somewhat now for the better I believe, the reason is we NOW have semi reasonable people in power in Washington.
I know this isn't a political forum and I won't attempt to turn it into 1 but I feel much better having a republican in charge and yea I think he's doin a great job.
Having a CCP myself I have no problem with back ground checks, and I didn't mind waiting 3 days to get a new gun before obtaining my permit, BUT! I DO see it as unconstitutional.
Gun shows are a tradition for me, not much I enjoy more than walking around on a sunday afternoon handling different firearms/ knives.
It saddens me that this is a dying tradition, and I encourage everyone to join the NRA.
Education is the key folks <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. Ron
They see that 90% of the crimes commited with firearms aren't from registered users.
I am lucky enough to have been raised around firearms/hunting, and I gained a great respect for them at a very early age.
Teaching the next generation is the key to keeping the rights given to us by the 2nd amendmant.
The ultra liberal media forces the view that all guns are bad down our throats every evening at 6 pm, when we hear of some nut case gang member shooting another kid simply for being from another part of town it's no surprise that guns are percieved as bad/evil and anyone that wants them is just another killing waiting to happen.
The mood is changing somewhat now for the better I believe, the reason is we NOW have semi reasonable people in power in Washington.
I know this isn't a political forum and I won't attempt to turn it into 1 but I feel much better having a republican in charge and yea I think he's doin a great job.
Having a CCP myself I have no problem with back ground checks, and I didn't mind waiting 3 days to get a new gun before obtaining my permit, BUT! I DO see it as unconstitutional.
Gun shows are a tradition for me, not much I enjoy more than walking around on a sunday afternoon handling different firearms/ knives.
It saddens me that this is a dying tradition, and I encourage everyone to join the NRA.
Education is the key folks <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. Ron
Just a fotnote,
In Denmark we have "always" had a very high guncontrol. You have to be a member of a Shoting club to own a handgun. You have to aplay for a gunpermit, wich you can´t get unless you have been an active member of a shoting club fo at least 6 years (You can use the clubs guns until then) Shotguns for hunting you can get when you are 16 and have a hunters licence. For rifles you have to be 18 and again have a hunters licence. Any atomatic or semi automatic shotgun or rifle may only be able to obtain 2 shots.
This might sound like a lot of bull******but consider this. In Denmark we only have about 50 gunrelatet killings (Not counting suicides) and we are about 6 million people living here. On top of this the Danish Police (Also known as the Knife Gestapo!!<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>)solve 98% of all murders (Not just the shooting ones)
Just worth a thought...maybe.
Vox.
In Denmark we have "always" had a very high guncontrol. You have to be a member of a Shoting club to own a handgun. You have to aplay for a gunpermit, wich you can´t get unless you have been an active member of a shoting club fo at least 6 years (You can use the clubs guns until then) Shotguns for hunting you can get when you are 16 and have a hunters licence. For rifles you have to be 18 and again have a hunters licence. Any atomatic or semi automatic shotgun or rifle may only be able to obtain 2 shots.
This might sound like a lot of bull******but consider this. In Denmark we only have about 50 gunrelatet killings (Not counting suicides) and we are about 6 million people living here. On top of this the Danish Police (Also known as the Knife Gestapo!!<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>)solve 98% of all murders (Not just the shooting ones)
Just worth a thought...maybe.
Vox.