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Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:37 am
by Ankerson
The Mastiff wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:25 am
I had minor chipping issues when I first started carrying S30V knives. The high wear resistance had me using low grit diamond stones and pressing too hard. Once I figured out what I was doing the "heat treat" improved and I had no issues any more. :) Learning to not have burrs also was an issue when I first began with powder steels. These steels because of the process are tougher and will do stuff like hold on to burrs more because of it. Once again it was experience and learning that solved my problems ( or better heat treat, or sharpening out the bad steel and getting down to the good steel or whatever other excuse is handy)
My point is we have to do more than repeat slogans or rely on what is common knowledge when issues come up. Most here should remember the S35Vn "problem" that arose when the first knives in that steel were released. One guy with a you tube channel started that whole mess. Others jumped on the bandwagon and soon people were repeating bad info as facts. That is how human nature is in these days of social media. We need to keep this in mind when talking on the forums. Is what you are saying mirroring your actual experience or are you allowing others statements to guide yours. It is human nature to desire to fit into the herd after all.
Joe
I call them parrots Joe.
Yeah that guy you are talking about couldn't sharpen a knife worth a crap when they 1st started, that and sharpened the bevels way too low for the uses intended.
The chipping issues were all his own fault.
Jim
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:06 am
by Bloke
Ankerson wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:37 am
The Mastiff wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:25 am
I had minor chipping issues when I first started carrying S30V knives. The high wear resistance had me using low grit diamond stones and pressing too hard. Once I figured out what I was doing the "heat treat" improved and I had no issues any more. :) Learning to not have burrs also was an issue when I first began with powder steels. These steels because of the process are tougher and will do stuff like hold on to burrs more because of it. Once again it was experience and learning that solved my problems ( or better heat treat, or sharpening out the bad steel and getting down to the good steel or whatever other excuse is handy)
My point is we have to do more than repeat slogans or rely on what is common knowledge when issues come up. Most here should remember the S35Vn "problem" that arose when the first knives in that steel were released. One guy with a you tube channel started that whole mess. Others jumped on the bandwagon and soon people were repeating bad info as facts. That is how human nature is in these days of social media. We need to keep this in mind when talking on the forums. Is what you are saying mirroring your actual experience or are you allowing others statements to guide yours. It is human nature to desire to fit into the herd after all.
Joe
I call them parrots Joe.
Yeah that guy you are talking about couldn't sharpen a knife worth a crap when they 1st started, that and sharpened the bevels way too low for the uses intended.
The chipping issues were all his own fault.
Jim
It just seems to be the way it is. Facts usually don’t enter into the equation. It’s far easier to sound knowledgeable by simply parroting an opinionated genius spruiking shite on YouTube.
Chicken Little yells “The sky is falling!” and the masses run for cover. It’s quite bizarre. Ah, hahaha! :rolleyes:
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:24 am
by 500Nitro
Bloke wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:06 am
Ankerson wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:37 am
The Mastiff wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:25 am
I had minor chipping issues when I first started carrying S30V knives. The high wear resistance had me using low grit diamond stones and pressing too hard. Once I figured out what I was doing the "heat treat" improved and I had no issues any more. :) Learning to not have burrs also was an issue when I first began with powder steels. These steels because of the process are tougher and will do stuff like hold on to burrs more because of it. Once again it was experience and learning that solved my problems ( or better heat treat, or sharpening out the bad steel and getting down to the good steel or whatever other excuse is handy)
My point is we have to do more than repeat slogans or rely on what is common knowledge when issues come up. Most here should remember the S35Vn "problem" that arose when the first knives in that steel were released. One guy with a you tube channel started that whole mess. Others jumped on the bandwagon and soon people were repeating bad info as facts. That is how human nature is in these days of social media. We need to keep this in mind when talking on the forums. Is what you are saying mirroring your actual experience or are you allowing others statements to guide yours. It is human nature to desire to fit into the herd after all.
Joe
I call them parrots Joe.
Yeah that guy you are talking about couldn't sharpen a knife worth a crap when they 1st started, that and sharpened the bevels way too low for the uses intended.
The chipping issues were all his own fault.
Jim
It just seems to be the way it is. Facts usually don’t enter into the equation. It’s far easier to sound knowledgeable by simply parroting an opinionated
genius spruiking shite on YouTube.
Chicken Little yells “The sky is falling!” and the masses run for cover. It’s quite bizarre. Ah, hahaha! :rolleyes:
I think you need to change the word genius to idiot !
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:39 am
by Doc Dan
What!!?? Are you guys telling me the stuff I see on YouTube and read on the internet from these experts isn't true??!! My world is rocking!!
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:50 am
by Pelagic
Doc Dan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:39 am
What!!?? Are you guys telling me the stuff I see on YouTube and read on the internet from these experts isn't true??!! My world is rocking!!
Ya know when you see someone's knife who really isn't a" knife guy" (or gal)? Half the times you look at the edge and think "what on earth did you do to this thing?"
I can't help but think that people got used to beating on 420, 440, 8cr13mov, Chinese mystery steel, etc.... Finally bought a "super steel", which they figured would be close to invincible, and randomly abused it, probably without knowing. And you know the type of person I'm talking about is utterly atrocious at sharpening. I think many of the random youtubers on knife videos probably fit this mold.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:08 am
by Chumango
[quote=Mattysc42 post_id=1306484 time=1550341454 user_
S110v usually doesn’t feel particularly aggressive to the touch but cuts for a long time.
[/quote]
Interesting. I have found S110V to be quite aggressive. If I cut thin polyethylene (Saran Wrap type) it wants to snag rather than cut cleanly, much more than any other steel I have. This is after finishing on XF DMT.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:50 am
by Pelagic
S110V is just difficult to make aggressive if you aren't used to it. Great steel on which to learn higher level sharpening.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:00 am
by bearfacedkiller
There are lots of things I dont want to hear about anymore. I have found that I have a lot more control over what I listen to than what others say. There are quite a few “experts” on YouTube that I don’t listen too.
I do think that a lack of ability/understanding about sharpening is partly to blame. If you leave a bur you will see what looks like chipping. There are also a lot of folks who use their blades hard with some prying and some twisting while in a cut. When I see non knife people’s knives they are usually thrashed.
It is also worth noting that harder is not always better. For a while now the knife community has been obsessed with vanadium content. Now they seem to want extreme hardness as well. Hardness, like steel choice, should match the application.
The knife community (the knife geeks) are the equivalent of hot rodders. We want performance and we are willing to give up durability in exchange for it. Just like the average car buyer does not need a 500hp hotrod, the average knife buyer does not need a high vanadium steel in the high 60's. In both of those cases things may not end well. I am glad that we get sprint runs of boutique steels at high hardness but I also understand why our S30V and VG10 are run the way they are.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:45 am
by demoncase
bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:00 am
I do think that a lack of ability/understanding about sharpening is partly to blame. If you leave a bur you will see what looks like chipping. There are also a lot of folks who use their blades hard with some prying and some twisting while in a cut. When I see non knife people’s knives they are usually thrashed.
It is also worth noting that harder is not always better. For a while now the knife community has been obsessed with vanadium content. Now they seem to want extreme hardness as well. Hardness, like steel choice, should match the application.
The knife community (the knife geeks) are the equivalent of hot rodders. We want performance and we are willing to give up durability in exchange for it. Just like the average car buyer does not need a 500hp hotrod, the average knife buyer does not need a high vanadium steel in the high 60's. In both of those cases things may not end well. I am glad that we get sprint runs of boutique steels at high hardness but I also understand why our S30V and VG10 are run the way they are.
Quoted for truth-
I cut my teeth on motorbikes during the last days of 2-stroke tuning.
With some care and attention one could tune an RD250 from it's stock 70mph and fairly flexible 5000rpm usability into a rip-snorting 120mph
thing with about powerband about 500rpm wide.....and let's not talk about the square root reduction in service intervals, or the MPG :D
Having come unstuck by chasing the extremes of performance there (and having an ankle that aches to warn me of impending snow as a reminder), I wear a wry smile when I read or hear demands for knife steels to heat treated to maximum hardness......then hear those self same people bleating about chipping turns that smile into a grin.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:54 am
by TazKristi
This is a great conversation but I would ask that everyone remember, Shiny Footprints. We can discuss people and their experiences without insults. If we can't, are we any better than those being discussed?
This forum is different not just because of our discussions but because of how we have those discussions. Please consider your words and the weight behind them.
Kristi
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:47 am
by Woodpuppy
bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:00 am
I have found that I have a lot more control over what I listen to than what others say.
This, in spades. The thing people tend to forget about the First Amendment, while everyone has the right to speak their mind, their right to speak does not mean others can be forced to listen. People seem to be very interested in forcing others to listen these days.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:20 am
by Larry_Mott
I haven't read every post in this thread so forgive me if i repeat what someone else has already said..
I find it remarkable that "Youtube filmstars" have such influence. There was a quite heated debate on Facebook the other day about the "necessity" of disassembling folding knives for maintenance. I was, as usual in the "knives are not meant to be taken apart and put together again just for the 'fun' of it" corner, while, also as usual, there were many who claimed it is impossible to clean, oil and maintain a folder without disassembling it regularily. More than once let us call them "Snazzy Steve" and "Disassembly Dan" were mentioned. After all, they are Youtube 'gurus' with tens of thousands of followers, so how can they be anything but correct..
I like Youtube, it is a brilliant way to learn (about) stuff, but i think you will have to learn to recognize the emperor's new clothes when you see them there, and not take for granted that every Youtube superstar is correct just because *e has 10000 subscribers :)
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:18 pm
by SpyderEdgeForever
TazKristi wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:54 am
This is a great conversation but I would ask that everyone remember, Shiny Footprints. We can discuss people and their experiences without insults. If we can't, are we any better than those being discussed?
This forum is different not just because of our discussions but because of
how we have those discussions. Please consider your words and the weight behind them.
Kristi
This is an excellent and timely post, Kristi. Thank you for adding this!
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:22 pm
by SpyderEdgeForever
Larry and Darby: Do you think if Spyderco were to use the exact composition of stainless steel used on those Varusteleka Puukko knives, both the carbon and stainless, in a series of fixed blades and folders, that would minimize any possibility of being chippy or brittle?
Here is the website:
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/ ... teel/56524
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:48 pm
by Pelagic
Kristi, be easy on Sal. He means well.
:eek: :D :D
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:56 pm
by 500Nitro
Larry_Mott wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:20 am
I find it remarkable that "Youtube filmstars" have such influence.
I think it come down to what the population in general is like today, not able to sort the wheat from the chaff, quality from crap, good advice re bad, the important stuff in life versus superfluous rubbish.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:18 pm
by Woodpuppy
As a kid I took everything apart. I wanted to know how it worked. Sometimes with disastrous consequences. I had to epoxy my SAK scales back on... but I still have that knife, works fine. I’m definately not in the “fluff n buff” is required crowd, but I take apart as I feel necessary. Once to change the scales and lanyard tube on my M4 para3. Just cause on my old Benchmade 720. I thought I’d need to once with my Salt 2, but the sand finally rinsed out. Some folks seem to need to get to “broken in” right away. I say don’t rush the journey.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:20 pm
by SpyderEdgeForever
Pelagic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:11 am
Bullwinkle wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am
Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the join like everyone else does. My keys do this job.
Need is a strong word in general. Most people go through life without ever carrying a knife and will never be able to fully understand those who claim "I couldn't leave home without it". Not to mention, some cardboard is too thick to be folded up into a piece small enough for the trash, and many of these boxes are stapled together. Is it technically possible to simply rip the staples out by hand? Sure. But a knife certainly comes in handy. Sometimes you don't realize what you've been missing out on until you actually carry a knife. All kinds of random tasks become much easier.
Without taking this thread off topic, can you please explain to me why this is, why there are people who go through life without ever carrying a knife and who will not be able to fully understand those who do? This is a very saddening thing to me that people have this outlook.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:22 pm
by Albatross
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:20 pm
Pelagic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:11 am
Bullwinkle wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:14 am
Not sure why the need to cut the cardboard at all? Just slice the tape at the join like everyone else does. My keys do this job.
Need is a strong word in general. Most people go through life without ever carrying a knife and will never be able to fully understand those who claim "I couldn't leave home without it". Not to mention, some cardboard is too thick to be folded up into a piece small enough for the trash, and many of these boxes are stapled together. Is it technically possible to simply rip the staples out by hand? Sure. But a knife certainly comes in handy. Sometimes you don't realize what you've been missing out on until you actually carry a knife. All kinds of random tasks become much easier.
Without taking this thread off topic, can you please explain to me why this is, why there are people who go through life without ever carrying a knife and who will not be able to fully understand those who do? This is a very saddening thing to me that people have this outlook.
It's especially amusing on a knife forum.
Re: I never want to hear about "chippy" steel ever again
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:23 pm
by SpyderEdgeForever
standy99 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:26 am
Nearly 50 years of life, 35 years of fishing and hunting, 25 years of butchering and I have never chipped a knife blade.
Have damaged blades many a time, but never chipped.
One of my worst knife-damage experiences was when I bought a cheapo Rigging Knife at a flea market as a kid and the seller told me it is "
The best quality knife in the world, guaranteed." I took it home and tapped the blade against a piece of wood and the blade literally snapped in two in the middle. When I went back to the flea market the seller was gone.