Blade Steel CQI

[p_atrick]

I am guessing the answer is no, but I thought I'd post to see if anybody here has an answer. Do blade steels ever undergo the CQI process? For example, has S30V even got a bit harder over the years, did the tempering process change (to increase toughness for example), was it ever not cryo treated (assuming that it is cryo treated now)? Again, I think the answer is probably not, but Spyderco does pride itself on constantly trying to improve their knives. Maybe that's why they offer so many sprints? Instead of tweaking S30V to be more wear resistant or tougher, they would just offer a steel that is naturally more wear resistant or tougher than S30V.

Edit - Fixed typo in the title

[Evil D]

The answer is probably yes, but the details are probably proprietary.

[brainfriction]

That's a good question. I would guess most of their CQI is geared toward process control and keeping consistency from batch to batch, but I could be wrong!

[Mom3ntuM]

One would think (and hope) its a part of their cqi.
For a Company that constantly try to improve their product it would be weird if they neglected steeltreatment.
That said i have no problem with spydercos s30v, but i have seen tests on youtube where other companies outpreformed spydercos on wear resistance in s30v..
But the knives themselves where no where near as sexy as the spydercos.. :)

[sparky2016]

I would tend to think they have it pretty well figured out in the first place. Most of these steels have been around a while, even if they are new to knives, and they are careful.

As to some of the comparisons - It may be Spyderco is going for a different mix of characteristics than other companies. A one-dimensional test wouldn't necessarily reveal that. Not to say they're perfect.

It seems the real CQI is in changing the steels in existing models. Such as the introduction of BD1 and lately the transition to BD1N.

Not always CQI, since it's often in entirely new products - but in the general topic of working to improve performance, introducing steels like CTS XHP and LC200N into the product line.

[TomAiello]

The answer is definitely yes. If it wasn't why would Spyderco have switched the Native 5 from s35vn to s30v? They obviously tried some things and decided that the way they were running the s30v was better than the way they were running the s35vn. I think Sal actually said something to that effect here at one point.

Same thing with BD1 and BD1N. I think they're constantly tinkering around with the steel and heat treat trying to make things better in one way or another. Recognizing that lower price is one way of being "better" and so is not raising a price when costs are going up, I can see Spyderco (and other manufacturers doing lots of "CQI" on their blade steel.

[TomAiello]

That said i have no problem with spydercos s30v, but i have seen tests on youtube where other companies outpreformed spydercos on wear resistance in s30v..

Wear resistance is only one aspect of blade performance.

In the models with s110v, I'd guess Spyderco prioritizes other features (toughness, stain resistance) so that the s30v model is "mass market" and the s110v (which has really good stain stain resistance as well as wear resistance) is the steel for those who want different features. Ditto for things like the Manix and Native that are available in both s110v and Maxamet (and/or BD1N). S30v fits into a certain role in that product line. When your line up includes s30v, s110v, Maxamet and BD1 (like the Manix), the s30v has to fill a certain role in that line up. If another manufacturer optimizes their s30v for wear resistance, then I'd guess they will achieve better wear resistance, because the s30v in the Manix is probably more balanced--wear resistance junkies like me will go for the Maxamet.

[Mom3ntuM]

That said i have no problem with spydercos s30v, but i have seen tests on youtube where other companies outpreformed spydercos on wear resistance in s30v..

Wear resistance is only one aspect of blade performance.

In the models with s110v, I'd guess Spyderco prioritizes other features (toughness, stain resistance) so that the s30v model is "mass market" and the s110v (which has really good stain stain resistance as well as wear resistance) is the steel for those who want different features. Ditto for things like the Manix and Native that are available in both s110v and Maxamet (and/or BD1N). S30v fits into a certain role in that product line. When your line up includes s30v, s110v, Maxamet and BD1 (like the Manix), the s30v has to fill a certain role in that line up. If another manufacturer optimizes their s30v for wear resistance, then I'd guess they will achieve better wear resistance, because the s30v in the Manix is probably more balanced--wear resistance junkies like me will go for the Maxamet.

That, i am aware of. But the only tests i have seen has been wear resistance. In a folder that is probably the most relevant aspect for a lot of People.
Me, i don't really care if i can cut 100 feet of cardboard or 120 before sharpening. :)

[sparky2016]

In a folder that is probably the most relevant aspect for a lot of People.
Me, i don't really care if i can cut 100 feet of cardboard or 120 before sharpening. :)

Me neither.

There are a lot of people who prefer something that can be sharpened reasonably easily, others that look for toughness for a particular use. Wear resistance gets a lot of hype, but it's for sure not the most important feature for a lot of people.

[sal]

Consistency is critical. Evolving methods to ensure consistency is CQI.

sal

[Tucson Tom]

One would think (and hope) its a part of their cqi.
For a Company that constantly try to improve their product it would be weird if they neglected steeltreatment.
That said i have no problem with spydercos s30v, but i have seen tests on youtube where other companies outpreformed spydercos on wear resistance in s30v..
But the knives themselves where no where near as sexy as the spydercos.. :)

This is "wear resistance tunnel vision". Wear resistance is just one aspect of steel performance. People like to have a single number (like how many cubic inches their V8 engine displaces) to measure things by. Megapixels in a digital camera is another classic. I guess it is a starting point for ranking different steels. But then there is corrosion resistance, toughness, ease of sharpening. And things the end user doesn't have to deal with, like how difficult it is to work with, how expensive it is, etc.

I actually am developing a growing respect for S30V, especially in spyderco knives. It is no slouch of a steel, has decent corrosion resistance and wear resistance, sharpens fairly easily. What is not to like? I grouse as much as anybody about wanting fancy sexy steels (such as in the Shaman), but really S30V ain't bad stuff and it is well understood.

[Mom3ntuM]

I concur :)

[500Nitro]

I concur :)

So do I.


Re wear resistance, I have only personally met 2-3 people who have "worn" knives where the knives blade
really is worn down to a lot thinner than when it was made. This is across warehousing, hunting etc

The hunting ones were where cutting up animals was a daily field experience and it was the sharpening over time that
wore down the blade more than anything.

In regards to Spyderco knives, in all my looking in 12 months I've probably only seen 4-5 well worn knives
on ebay, mostly serrated and well worn Endura's + the odd Delica.

I think if you extrapolate those figures across then I estimate people in general use are unlikely to wear out a Spyderco.