Free hand sharpening techniques

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Deadboxhero
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:25 pm

??? :confused:

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:13 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:56 pm
Let's see it :D

I wanna see more cutting action in the thread! :D

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:16 pm
Steels are great for getting the most out of an edge. Just know that you'll get less and less edge retention every time you use it until the next full sharpening.

Just a bit ago I sharpened someone's shun chef's knife with a DMT 600 sharpening rod, ending with multiple very light alternating passes. No detectable burr. Tried to slice a free hanging paper towel, no dice. Then I took an actual steel and did about 10 ultra light passes per side. Sliced the paper towel clean.
Do you find it hard to believe? I'd get a real kick out of that.
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Triple B Handmade Knives

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Pelagic
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Pelagic » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:37 pm

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:25 pm
??? :confused:

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:13 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:56 pm
Let's see it :D

I wanna see more cutting action in the thread! :D

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:16 pm
Steels are great for getting the most out of an edge. Just know that you'll get less and less edge retention every time you use it until the next full sharpening.

Just a bit ago I sharpened someone's shun chef's knife with a DMT 600 sharpening rod, ending with multiple very light alternating passes. No detectable burr. Tried to slice a free hanging paper towel, no dice. Then I took an actual steel and did about 10 ultra light passes per side. Sliced the paper towel clean.
Do you find it hard to believe? I'd get a real kick out of that.
Lol, sounded like you doubted me. I'm sure I could borrow his knife tomorrow just to make a video, I guess.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

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Deadboxhero
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:06 pm

Doubt? Nah

https://youtu.be/UN3BaTLQZyg
Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:37 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:25 pm
??? :confused:


[quote=Pelagic post_id=1299972 time=1547928807 use
Lol, sounded like you doubted me. I'm sure I could borrow his knife tomorrow just to make a video, I guess.
Big Brown Bear
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Pelagic » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:13 pm

Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:06 pm
Doubt? Nah

https://youtu.be/UN3BaTLQZyg
Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:37 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:25 pm
??? :confused:


[quote=Pelagic post_id=1299972 time=1547928807 use
Lol, sounded like you doubted me. I'm sure I could borrow his knife tomorrow just to make a video, I guess.
One of my favorite movies. :D
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

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Deadboxhero
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:37 pm

Yah man :D good stuff

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:13 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:06 pm
Doubt? Nah

https://youtu.be/UN3BaTLQZyg
Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:37 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:25 pm
??? :confused:


[quote=Pelagic post_id=1299972 time=1547928807 use
Lol, sounded like you doubted me. I'm sure I could borrow his knife tomorrow just to make a video, I guess.
One of my favorite movies. :D
Big Brown Bear
[url]https://www.youtube.com/user/shawnhouston[/ur]
Triple B Handmade Knives

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standy99
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby standy99 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:40 pm

Zatx wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:52 am
standy99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:33 am
Was a butcher for 20 odd years and learnt to sharpen on wet stones early as my father was a butcher also.


The one bit of advice I would give to someone new to sharpening knives is the more you steel a knife the less you have to sharpen a knife.
( if I had a choice of a steel or a stone only the steel would win every time )

I know Vivi is against using a steel, but this is a very effective way to reduce how often a knife is sharpened which in turn increases the life of a blade. In commercial butcher operations, a knife can generally process 2-4 carcasses before needing sharpening, but this is only with the butcher steeling the blade every few cuts. Without steeling, a knife would not make it through a single carcass. Most large-scale butcheries send their knives out to a third-party for sharpening, so steeling versus sharpening saves them money. It's important to note that when cutting meat the apex isn't being dulled by the animal's soft tissue, the apex is being rolled when hitting hard bone and cartilage.

I agree with Vivi that using a ceramic hone to touch up a blade is better for 95% of us knife knuts who are using our knives to cut open the boxes of the new knife that just came in the mail. But, in commercial kitchens and other hard use applications where the knife is the primary tool, steeling is the most efficient (and cost-effective) tool for maintaining a sharp blade.



[EDIT TO ADD: I always use a steel on the knives in my kitchen, but it has nothing
to do with efficiency, it's primarily because my wife yells at me when I sharpen her knives to hair-splitting sharpness because she always manages to slice off the end of her thumb when I do it.]
Don’t know where you get the knife needs sharpening after 2-3 carcasses. Never sharpened a knife more than once a day. ( every morning for a boning knife once a week for a steak knife )
I would break 23 bodies of beef a day, and 85 hindquarters the following day every Monday and Tuesday and never sharpened a boning knife more than once.

Knife note going through 1 carcass if not steeled - going to leave that one as that’s just something written on the internet that shouldn’t of been ( not having a go at who wrote it )

I never let any 3rd or any party touch my knives, not even the other guys I drank and worked with each and every day

That goes to my point in using the knife you find you sharpening strengths and weaknesses.

Watch videos, but get out there and use it and sharpen it. Stuff it up and you will know next time. :D
Last edited by standy99 on Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby standy99 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:44 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:14 am
I worked as a chef for 8 years and I had better results touching up our knives with a fine sharpmaker rod than using our steels, whether grooved or smooth. Steels do remove slightly less steel but a fine SM rod isn't very aggressive.

Definitely agree with Standy99 that you shouldn't take more than five minutes to sharpen a knife (reprofiling is another story), and don't worry about scratching them.
A butcher and a chef agreeing about knives :eek: :D :D

To me those sharp makers are just steels without handles ;)
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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Zatx
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Zatx » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:15 pm

standy99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:40 pm
Zatx wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:52 am
standy99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:33 am
Was a butcher for 20 odd years and learnt to sharpen on wet stones early as my father was a butcher also.


The one bit of advice I would give to someone new to sharpening knives is the more you steel a knife the less you have to sharpen a knife.
( if I had a choice of a steel or a stone only the steel would win every time )

I know Vivi is against using a steel, but this is a very effective way to reduce how often a knife is sharpened which in turn increases the life of a blade. In commercial butcher operations, a knife can generally process 2-4 carcasses before needing sharpening, but this is only with the butcher steeling the blade every few cuts. Without steeling, a knife would not make it through a single carcass. Most large-scale butcheries send their knives out to a third-party for sharpening, so steeling versus sharpening saves them money. It's important to note that when cutting meat the apex isn't being dulled by the animal's soft tissue, the apex is being rolled when hitting hard bone and cartilage.

I agree with Vivi that using a ceramic hone to touch up a blade is better for 95% of us knife knuts who are using our knives to cut open the boxes of the new knife that just came in the mail. But, in commercial kitchens and other hard use applications where the knife is the primary tool, steeling is the most efficient (and cost-effective) tool for maintaining a sharp blade.



[EDIT TO ADD: I always use a steel on the knives in my kitchen, but it has nothing
to do with efficiency, it's primarily because my wife yells at me when I sharpen her knives to hair-splitting sharpness because she always manages to slice off the end of her thumb when I do it.]
Don’t know where you get the knife needs sharpening after 2-3 carcasses. Never sharpened a knife more than once a day. ( every morning for a boning knife once a week for a steak knife )
I would break 23 bodies of beef a day, and 85 hindquarters the following day every Monday and Tuesday and never sharpened a boning knife more than once.

Knife note going through 1 carcass if not steeled - going to leave that one as that’s just something written on the internet that shouldn’t of been ( not having a go at who wrote it )

I never let any 3rd or any party touch my knives, not even the other guys I drank and worked with each and every day

That goes to my point in using the knife you find you sharpening strengths and weaknesses.

Watch videos, but get out there and use it and sharpen it. Stuff it up and you will know next time. :D

Hey there! Here is where I read that information

http://knifegrinders.com.au/17ProprietaryEdge.htm

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby vivi » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:29 pm

standy99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:44 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:14 am
I worked as a chef for 8 years and I had better results touching up our knives with a fine sharpmaker rod than using our steels, whether grooved or smooth. Steels do remove slightly less steel but a fine SM rod isn't very aggressive.

Definitely agree with Standy99 that you shouldn't take more than five minutes to sharpen a knife (reprofiling is another story), and don't worry about scratching them.
A butcher and a chef agreeing about knives :eek: :D :D

To me those sharp makers are just steels without handles ;)
Yep. I've even thought about making some wooden handles to use them as rods. I'd love to see a factory option for that, even if they're plastic.

I'm still friends with a few butchers. They use steels during their shifts, but otherwise they're decent people ;) :D

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Pelagic » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:42 pm

Steels hone/align the apex.

Sharpening rods are anything that removes steel.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Bloke » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:07 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:42 pm
Steels hone/align the apex.

Sharpening rods are anything that removes steel.
Agreed!

I’ve used a steel plenty because it’s the easiest way to stand a rolled edge up in the field when using knives like Dexter Russell’s and the like. At the end of the day I feel all I’m doing is pushing the edge back and forth and I can only do that so many times.

I think how professional butchers, Kangaroo shooters and the like view knives is different to the occasional knife user. The butchers I know view there knives like a rigger might view his gloves. Pro Roo shooters I know buy a box of quality butchers knives (5” swept back boners are popular), steel as they go and grab a newly sharpened knife when a steel isn’t doing the trick.

I also don’t think you can beat a clean abrasive cut micro bevel on a knife you like and intend to keep.

Just my $AU0.02c worth. :rolleyes:
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby standy99 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:13 pm

Zatx wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:15 pm
.


Hey there! Here is where I read that information

http://knifegrinders.com.au/17ProprietaryEdge.htm

Not a shot at you, should have guessed it was someone trying to make you spend money.
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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standy99
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby standy99 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:20 pm

Bloke wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:07 pm
Pelagic wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:42 pm
Steels hone/align the apex.

Sharpening rods are anything that removes steel.
Agreed!

I’ve used a steel plenty because it’s the easiest way to stand a rolled edge up in the field when using knives like Dexter Russell’s and the like. At the end of the day I feel all I’m doing is pushing the edge back and forth and I can only do that so many times.

I think how professional butchers, Kangaroo shooters and the like view knives is different to the occasional knife user. The butchers I know view there knives like a rigger might view his gloves. Pro Roo shooters I know buy a box of quality butchers knives (5” swept back boners are popular), steel as they go and grab a newly sharpened knife when a steel isn’t doing the trick.

I also don’t think you can beat a clean abrasive cut micro bevel on a knife you like and intend to keep.

Just my $AU0.02c worth. :rolleyes:
As you wrote the above I was thinking at $20-30 for a Dexter-Russell boning knife it would be cheaper to throw it out every month than sharpen it or rent one from the link above.

Have a picture of two Dexter-Russell knives that are exactly the same and one is worn down to half the blade of the other. ( but trying to put photos on this site sucks and I don’t do the third party photo thingy )
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby standy99 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:25 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:29 pm
standy99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:44 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:14 am
I worked as a chef for 8 years and I had better results touching up our knives with a fine sharpmaker rod than using our steels, whether grooved or smooth. Steels do remove slightly less steel but a fine SM rod isn't very aggressive.

Definitely agree with Standy99 that you shouldn't take more than five minutes to sharpen a knife (reprofiling is another story), and don't worry about scratching them.
A butcher and a chef agreeing about knives :eek: :D :D

To me those sharp makers are just steels without handles ;)
Yep. I've even thought about making some wooden handles to use them as rods. I'd love to see a factory option for that, even if they're plastic.

I'm still friends with a few butchers. They use steels during their shifts, but otherwise they're decent people ;) :D
Been using these for years ( Don’t tell Sal )

$10 at homedepot :D
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nicholson-5 ... /206077782
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby TkoK83Spy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:31 pm

Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:56 pm
Back and forth until burr each side, deburr. Done.
I thought you could only burr one side at a time?

Say you put the show side to the stone and create a burr, which would be on the other side, then switch to that side and try and move it back to the show side, or hopefully get rid if it by then?

I'm new to this creating a burr intentionally thing...and not sure if I want to just yet!
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Deadboxhero » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:10 pm

1. Sharpen one side untill a very, very small burr forms on the opposite side from the tippy tip, the belly, the straight and the heel. That means that side is done.

2. Repeat on opposite side.

3. Remove the burr, no counting. Just alternating passes each side with almost no pressure removes and reduces burr. Stop when burr is removed, check by cutting paper.

That's it. Like Vivi said, plenty of ways to skin a cat.

Do whatever works for you.

Good luck.

Plenty of videos to watch, but at the end of the day the only thing that gets you better is removing metal on a stone.

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:31 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:56 pm
Back and forth until burr each side, deburr. Done.
I thought you could only burr one side at a time?

Say you put the show side to the stone and create a burr, which would be on the other side, then switch to that side and try and move it back to the show side, or hopefully get rid if it by then?

I'm new to this creating a burr intentionally thing...and not sure if I want to just yet!
Big Brown Bear
[url]https://www.youtube.com/user/shawnhouston[/ur]
Triple B Handmade Knives

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Zatx
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Zatx » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:25 pm

standy99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:25 pm


$10 at homedepot :D
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nicholson-5 ... /206077782

Now that right there is just all kinds of cool. I know where I'm going tomorrow.

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Bloke » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:30 pm

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:31 pm
Deadboxhero wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:56 pm
Back and forth until burr each side, deburr. Done.
I thought you could only burr one side at a time?

Say you put the show side to the stone and create a burr, which would be on the other side, then switch to that side and try and move it back to the show side, or hopefully get rid if it by then?

I'm new to this creating a burr intentionally thing...and not sure if I want to just yet!
You’ll always create a burr ocne you start grinding the apex because you’re grinding unsupported steel. There’s no steel either side of the very apex. In the end I think it gets down to how much burr you’re willing to create and how you go about removing it.

You can easily finish a blade on an ultra fine SharpMaker stone let’s say and still end up with a burr. :)
A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin

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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby vivi » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:09 am

standy99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:25 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:29 pm
standy99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:44 pm
Vivi wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:14 am
I worked as a chef for 8 years and I had better results touching up our knives with a fine sharpmaker rod than using our steels, whether grooved or smooth. Steels do remove slightly less steel but a fine SM rod isn't very aggressive.

Definitely agree with Standy99 that you shouldn't take more than five minutes to sharpen a knife (reprofiling is another story), and don't worry about scratching them.
A butcher and a chef agreeing about knives :eek: :D :D

To me those sharp makers are just steels without handles ;)
Yep. I've even thought about making some wooden handles to use them as rods. I'd love to see a factory option for that, even if they're plastic.

I'm still friends with a few butchers. They use steels during their shifts, but otherwise they're decent people ;) :D
Been using these for years ( Don’t tell Sal )

$10 at homedepot :D
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nicholson-5 ... /206077782
Nice, I'll look for those next time I'm out shopping.

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Pelagic
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Re: Free hand sharpening techniques

Postby Pelagic » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:48 am

https://streamable.com/1zjdl

Very brief video, I didn't take the time to get it right at all and just did one quick take. But this shows just how little effort is required to get an edge. The 600 grit diamond rod can repair severely blunted edges in a matter of minutes, and the steel keeps any microscopic burr in check.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?


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