Lil temperance question

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SF Native
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Lil temperance question

Postby SF Native » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 am

In the hard truths thread the lil temperance 3 is used as an example a model that costs too much without known reason.
I happen to have this knife and it’s one of my favorites.

I have over a dozen spyderco’s with compression locks and this one is different. My example seems to have tighter tolerances. Mine has a short travel and seems stiffer than all my paras. My question is, am I imagining this? Is this compression lock designed different to meet the MBC needs? Is that one reason that this model costs more?

Also the edge of the g10 is beveled all around.
Just hoping for some clarity.

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swigert
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby swigert » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:12 am

Mine is also tighter than all my other compression locks. It seems like the last couple years all the g10 knives coming out of Japan all seemed expensive and everyone was commenting.

Maybe I’m imagining things but didn’t sal say something about scaling down the g10 and American steeel production in japan and just doing the normal stuff like endura and Delica?

ABX2011
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby ABX2011 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:30 am

How's the detent on this model? Is there any detent play? I only ask because I experienced that on a Superleaf.

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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby crow2071 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:50 am

ABX2011 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:30 am
How's the detent on this model? Is there any detent play? I only ask because I experienced that on a Superleaf.
I have both and the Lil Temperance has zero detent play. My Superleaf's detent is fine but the compression lock is wacky and sticky unlike the Lil Temperance.

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sal
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby sal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:55 am

Hi Native,

The Lil' Temperance 3 has a long history in product development. It was designed as a 3" blade tough MBC model. It's a short, stout folder that was designed for 4 position grip. The blade is thicker, the lock is thicker as well. We went through more than a dozen prototypes in Product development. There were some that wanted it to be a Reeve Integral lock and some protos were made with that lock. From the beginning, I wanted an FRN version with a nested compression lock. Once that was decided on, we worked with the Seki maker to refine the model. The G-10 version is/was a test of the design. Unfortunately making G-10 knives in Seki with the design requirements of this model ended up with an expensive piece. This almost always slows sales. With slower sales, feedback is limited and slow moving inventory is always a headache.

I have designed a number of niche models such as; Lil' Temperance, P'Kal, Karahawk, etc. They have been more expensive than FRN models and sales are slower so whether or not to keep them in the line is always a question.

Ideally, I would like an FRN Lil' Temperance with bi-directional texture and a slight 3D curve to the scale. Nested liners like the G-10 model. Steel is a question because many are complaining that S30V is less in demand because it's an "old" steel. I'm not sure of what type of steel the market for this model would prefer? If I do have the opportunity to make molds for an FRN version, my current consideration is K390.

sal

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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby joeldworkin307 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:08 am

sal wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:55 am
If I do have the opportunity to make molds for an FRN version, my current consideration is K390.

sal
Yes. Just yes. That is all.

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Halfneck
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby Halfneck » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:13 pm

I really like my Lil'Temp 3 and as it is winter here I've been carrying it more. Ergonomics are great and the fit & finish are very good. I'm not a fan of S30V steel, but that is just a personal bias and it has maintained a good edge. Price was higher than I like, but I wanted it so I saved up.

The idea of an FRN version sounds great to me. My main reason for not carrying it as much in the warmer months is the weight. A lighter FRN version would solve this. While I like M390 steel, I'd love to see something like BD1N used. Sure it's not as fancy a steel as M390, but I assume it would bring the price down. I like the idea of a stout knife at a price point where the owner won't be afraid to use it hard.

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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby ChrisinHove » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:31 am

1.55mm liner / lock bar thickness on my LT3, versus 1.4mm on my PM2.

The lock bar travel on my LT3 is 1mm, versus 1.6mm on my PM2.

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sal
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby sal » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:01 pm

I'm carrying mine today. Discussed with Eric possibility of production in FRN. It's rather bullet proof.

sal

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captnvegtble
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby captnvegtble » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:25 pm

sal wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:55 am
Ideally, I would like an FRN Lil' Temperance with bi-directional texture and a slight 3D curve to the scale. Nested liners like the G-10 model. Steel is a question because many are complaining that S30V is less in demand because it's an "old" steel. I'm not sure of what type of steel the market for this model would prefer? If I do have the opportunity to make molds for an FRN version, my current consideration is K390.

sal
I would buy this! I haven't bought the current version partly because of price, but the handle looks very ergonomic and I very much like non-stainless carbon steels like K390. A cheaper, FRN Lil' Temp in a carbon steel would greatly elevate this knife. I would also like to propose using this ergonomic neutral handle design in other models... seems like the kind of handle which would fit into other blade shapes, etc.

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Knife Knut
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby Knife Knut » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:02 pm

sal wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:55 am

Ideally, I would like an FRN Lil' Temperance with bi-directional texture and a slight 3D curve to the scale. Nested liners like the G-10 model. Steel is a question because many are complaining that S30V is less in demand because it's an "old" steel. I'm not sure of what type of steel the market for this model would prefer? If I do have the opportunity to make molds for an FRN version, my current consideration is K390.

sal
I can understand wanting a good steel, but that is just downright toxic. I wish more people could understand we have reached the point of diminishing returns (and consequent greater expense) on developing better edge retention stainless steel alloys and processes.

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Evil D
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby Evil D » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:24 pm

If the scales are any way shaped like the FRN D'Allara then count me in.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby vivi » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:14 pm

Honestly I'm wondering if BD1 / BD1N would be a good replacement for S30V at this point.

S30V, while I personally think it's a great steel, seems to have lost its luster with many folks.

But then look at the excitement the Para 3 is generating despite the steel being a step down from S30V in edge retention.

Makes me curious if offering a knife in BD1N / FRN and shooting for a low price point would be better, then do sprint runs in fancy steels for afi's.

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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby SF Native » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:35 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:14 pm
Honestly I'm wondering if BD1 / BD1N would be a good replacement for S30V at this point.

S30V, while I personally think it's a great steel, seems to have lost its luster with many folks.

But then look at the excitement the Para 3 is generating despite the steel being a step down from S30V in edge retention.

Makes me curious if offering a knife in BD1N / FRN and shooting for a low price point would be better, then do sprint runs in fancy steels for afi's.
Thanks for all the replies.

Vivi, yes I think bd1n would be a preferable steel for this model. It’s technically a self defense knife. I think bd1n seems to be a pretty tough steel. Sal has said the most important quality in self defense is a sharp knife. Bd1n sharpens pretty easy.

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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby BornIn1500 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:08 pm

I think people are forgetting that using a foreign steel in Japan is expensive and the high price of the Lil Temperance is why sales are slow. Should probably do a Japanese steel to keep costs lower.

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captnvegtble
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby captnvegtble » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:39 pm

BornIn1500 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:08 pm
I think people are forgetting that using a foreign steel in Japan is expensive and the high price of the Lil Temperance is why sales are slow. Should probably do a Japanese steel to keep costs lower.
Yes... Hap40 it is!

SF Native
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Re: Lil temperance question

Postby SF Native » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:29 pm

captnvegtble wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:39 pm
BornIn1500 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:08 pm
I think people are forgetting that using a foreign steel in Japan is expensive and the high price of the Lil Temperance is why sales are slow. Should probably do a Japanese steel to keep costs lower.
Yes... Hap40 it is!
Sure. That sounds good.


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