Hard truths and observations

[vivi]

The only way that we've found is to have a metallurgical testing lab do a chemical analysis. Expensive, but accurate.

sal

That isn't entirely true. A PMI, with a quality analyzer, can give you a pretty accurate breakdown of the element content. If those particular alloys are in the library, the database, it will give you a match. If it is not, the data can be compared to known formulas. Every steel producer provides those. In addition, using a known and trusted source can provide further evidence. Spyderco's S35VN looks pretty much like everyone's S35VN. The same steel doesn't mean it is the same quality. I recently Rockwelled a fairly known, cheap knife that was supposedly S35VN. It was...at 52.5 HRC!
The biggest reason I started doing tests for reviewers, was to find those dishonest companies and out them. Not just the steel but Rockwell, too. That is all I can do. Other's are doing the cut tests, trying to put some clarity on heat treat quality. I work pretty hard for my money, and I know most do. I'm trying to make sure people are getting what they pay for. As for what they cost, I don't care. The consumers have to decide that for themselves.

Where can one view your test results?

[sal]

Hi Jcool,

I applaud you for doing it. every bit of truth-finding helps. I was just curious.

sal

[jcoolG19]

Hi Jcool,

I applaud you for doing it. every bit of truth-finding helps. I was just curious.

sal

There is a reason I use Spydercos for a control when I can. Thank you for making that possible with so many steels!

[jcoolG19]

Where can one view your test results?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... p=drivesdk

David, Blade Banter on YouTube, is gathering the test info and organizing it.
This is not complete but a work in progress. There is a lot more data coming.

[ABX2011]

Interesting data, thanks.

[funghiman]

The only way that we've found is to have a metallurgical testing lab do a chemical analysis. Expensive, but accurate.

sal

That isn't entirely true. A PMI, with a quality analyzer, can give you a pretty accurate breakdown of the element content. If those particular alloys are in the library, the database, it will give you a match. If it is not, the data can be compared to known formulas. Every steel producer provides those. In addition, using a known and trusted source can provide further evidence. Spyderco's S35VN looks pretty much like everyone's S35VN. The same steel doesn't mean it is the same quality. I recently Rockwelled a fairly known, cheap knife that was supposedly S35VN. It was...at 52.5 HRC!
The biggest reason I started doing tests for reviewers, was to find those dishonest companies and out them. Not just the steel but Rockwell, too. That is all I can do. Other's are doing the cut tests, trying to put some clarity on heat treat quality. I work pretty hard for my money, and I know most do. I'm trying to make sure people are getting what they pay for. As for what they cost, I don't care. The consumers have to decide that for themselves.

Indeed. As Nick Shabazz mentioned in his blade steel talk, even premium materials can end up failing miserably in hands that lack proper equipment or/and skill.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

The only way that we've found is to have a metallurgical testing lab do a chemical analysis. Expensive, but accurate.

sal

That isn't entirely true. A PMI, with a quality analyzer, can give you a pretty accurate breakdown of the element content. If those particular alloys are in the library, the database, it will give you a match. If it is not, the data can be compared to known formulas. Every steel producer provides those. In addition, using a known and trusted source can provide further evidence. Spyderco's S35VN looks pretty much like everyone's S35VN. The same steel doesn't mean it is the same quality. I recently Rockwelled a fairly known, cheap knife that was supposedly S35VN. It was...at 52.5 HRC!
The biggest reason I started doing tests for reviewers, was to find those dishonest companies and out them. Not just the steel but Rockwell, too. That is all I can do. Other's are doing the cut tests, trying to put some clarity on heat treat quality. I work pretty hard for my money, and I know most do. I'm trying to make sure people are getting what they pay for. As for what they cost, I don't care. The consumers have to decide that for themselves.

Thanks do you have a YouTube channel would love to de your work

[jcoolG19]

Indeed. As Nick Shabazz mentioned in his blade steel talk, even premium materials can end up failing miserably in hands that lack proper equipment or/and skill.

That's true. As long as we don't fall into the mindset that because it's foreign made, Chinese in particular, that they all have inferior heat treats. My personal experience with some Chinese made knives has been very good. Some of these companies are actively seeking feedback on how to improve their products. I like that.

[jcoolG19]

Thanks do you have a YouTube channel would love to de your work

No sir! Believe me, nobody wants to watch me fumble through a video. Those guys put a lot of time and effort into them as well. More than I'm willing to give up. My job takes 50-60 hours a week as it is.

There are 3 reviewers that I test for primarily. Blade Banter, SuperSteel Steve and LuvThemKnives. LTK has been responsible for the majority of knives I have tested to date. I've lost track but it's somewhere around 85-90. The man has put forth an incredible effort in time and his own money. Blade Banter has sent a couple batches and is sending another soon. Steve is a cardboard cutting maniac that is trying to find answers about heat treats and HRC results, and how they apply to cutting performance. All have some good vids on the subject.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Thank you for the names will find them. Do any of them ever show you or the equipment you use I would find that very interesting.

[jcoolG19]

Thank you for the names will find them. Do any of them ever show you or the equipment you use I would find that very interesting.

Yes, I take a ton of pics and I send them the PMI results back with the knives.
The equipment I use is a Wilson 4 JR that is calibrated every 60 days and serviced yearly. In addition, we verify calibration with a Wilson 65 HRC standards disc before testing. It has proven to be very accurate and repeatable.
Our XRF analyzer (PMI gun) is a TF Niton Gold+. About $36k set up as is.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Will look all of this up, thanks. Sounds like very interesting work.

[Crux]

I remember living on $4.50/hr (not minimum wage either) and that was in the tech industry. Times change, but back then I didn't need an expensive smartphone or smart TV, brand new car or eat out anytime I wanted. I still invested in the stock plan and of course there was zero health care coverage. I drove a car that I spent almost as much time fixing as driving. I'd do a little computer work on the side for some coin, but I remember them as happy days. The cost today to "fit in" is so much higher that even when you achieve it there is little joy to be had.

Funny thing is, I still was always able to buy a knife when I wanted.

[jcoolG19]

I remember living on $4.50/hr (not minimum wage either) and that was in the tech industry. Times change, but back then I didn't need an expensive smartphone or smart TV, brand new car or eat out anytime I wanted. I still invested in the stock plan and of course there was zero health care coverage. I drove a car that I spent almost as much time fixing as driving. I'd do a little computer work on the side for some coin, but I remember them as happy days. The cost today to "fit in" is so much higher that even when you achieve it there is little joy to be had.

Funny thing is, I still was always able to buy a knife when I wanted.

Priorities. You wanted the knife enough to forego other things, like a more reliable car. As for fitting in, that is also a priority. What is the price of admission, and are you willing to pay it. Imagine how well you would fit in here if you didn't own at least one Spyderco.

[TomAiello]

I believe the point you're making is summed up by the expression "First World Problems."

I have a chinese made s35vn flipper that I got off AliBaba a while ago. Maybe I should send it in to someone to analyze the steel.

I find it hard to believe that one of the major chinese-made brands would be lying about their steel though. I'd expect them to be found out pretty fast if they did that. Maybe I'm just assuming too much though.

[Crux]

I remember living on $4.50/hr (not minimum wage either) and that was in the tech industry. Times change, but back then I didn't need an expensive smartphone or smart TV, brand new car or eat out anytime I wanted. I still invested in the stock plan and of course there was zero health care coverage. I drove a car that I spent almost as much time fixing as driving. I'd do a little computer work on the side for some coin, but I remember them as happy days. The cost today to "fit in" is so much higher that even when you achieve it there is little joy to be had.

Funny thing is, I still was always able to buy a knife when I wanted.

Priorities. You wanted the knife enough to forego other things, like a more reliable car. As for fitting in, that is also a priority. What is the price of admission, and are you willing to pay it. Imagine how well you would fit in here if you didn't own at least one Spyderco.

I didn't forego things to buy a knife, I did that because these things were not necessary for me to live. The point was I still had extra money. Today there are so many things to waste money on that life becomes expensive. Too many people that want to keep up with the Jones'. I didn't buy a Spyderco so I could fit in, I bought Spydercos and ran across this site. I'm sure that if I didn't own a Spyderco I would still be welcome here.

When you are young young there is this super need to fit in, but I never saw myself as a follower. So I just charted my own path and fit in with people who judged me on my merits and not the car I drove. Still, I managed to retire at 49 so it turned out my path was better than all those that seemed quicker and easier at the time.

[jcoolG19]

I didn't forego things to buy a knife, I did that because these things were not necessary for me to live. The point was I still had extra money. Today there are so many things to waste money on that life becomes expensive. Too many people that want to keep up with the Jones'. I didn't buy a Spyderco so I could fit in, I bought Spydercos and ran across this site. I'm sure that if I didn't own a Spyderco I would still be welcome here.

When you are young young there is this super need to fit in, but I never saw myself as a follower. So I just charted my own path and fit in with people who judged me on my merits and not the car I drove. Still, I managed to retire at 49 so it turned out my path was better than all those that seemed quicker and easier at the time.

Please don't take my reply as criticism, it was not meant that way. You placed priorities on what to do with your money. Your car fit your needs, so it wasn't a priority. I did say a more reliable car, not a new car, or a popular one. I drive a 20 year old GMC. It suits my needs perfectly and I haven't had a payment in 16 years. Replacing it is not a priority. Glock has a new model out that I have to have. The Amalgam may be the perfect knife for me. I'm putting extra money aside for a summer vacation with my wife. I have the greatest wife a man could hope for. Guess who isn't getting the new Glock or the Amalgam? Wants and needs are not the same thing, but they can both be priorities.
I wasn't implying someone wouldn't be welcome here if they didn't own a Spyderco. This is one of the more cordial and welcoming forums I've visited. Unless your just asking questions, it would be hard to participate in many, if not most posts.

[Bloke]

I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet. Helen Keller.

[Crux]

But, Helen Keller couldn't see or hear so I'm thinking the poor legless man has the edge. IMHO :)

[jpm2]

....unfolded the small blade

and neatly cut the ends off ripe pecans”

Something I do a lot of.